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What computer should I get?

visual800

Active Member
i know I may be flamed for this but a couple of things i do on my comps is disable the updates, the firewall and any other crap microsoft thinks you need. I keep my comps clean. HP and dell love to load abunch of crap on pcs when they sell them I remove all that. I use ccleaner regurlarly, and keep registry clean. I dont download anything without scanning for viruses first.

the only thing thats starts up is avast when comp is cut on anything else IMO is just wasted time and memory. AVG will slow your comp down to a crawl (it used tonot be that way) HP is probably the worst in loading crap on a pc. i have cleaned many people s comps and taken all that off and it runs 200 times better. Keep an eye on fonts also. you DO NOT need 400 fonts on your comp.
 

WildWestDesigns

Active Member
Wildwest..
I didn't know porn was a worthy update...


I didn't say it was. However, there are some service pack updates that made even Vista much more stable and where it should have been at when it was originally released.

Although, I must say I have never gotten an update that had porn involved in it, so I have to wonder what's going on with your setup (if it happened to you or if it was a "friend" that had that update).
 

bob

It's better to have two hands than one glove.
...I believe that being prepared in case of failure is very different than planning for failure. I also believe that a little foresight is a good thing. "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure," - Benjamin Franklin...

"A witty saying proves nothing." - Voltaire

How much foresight and at what cost?

Way back, probably before you were born, I was a corporate warrior dealing, albeit tangentially, with such things as disaster recovery plans. It turned out that the plans generally were costlier than the disaster that they were supposed to mitigate. It invariably was cheaper to simply deal with any untoward event than it was to instigate and maintain most any disaster recovery plan. Curiously, the very few disasters we experienced were all things for which there never was nor reasonably could have been a plan.

As previously noted, shit happens, deal with it. This is almost always the most parsimonious practice.

Moreover, there is no disaster of the sort being alluded to here that is life shattering. After some computer halts and catches fire or whatever your favorite digital horror might be, it has no particular effect on the course of history. Civilization goes on as rich tapestry of life unfolds, and we somehow all muddle through.
 

Mosh

New Member
Not making this up...my RIP computer crashed today. I seriously went to WAL-MART and got a Dell tower for $500, it is super fast, I rip/printed a wrap in no time at all. You geeks way over complicate things. I know there are faster things out there, but from crash to me printing a wrap was less than an hour!

(I am talking from the time the rip computer crashed to the time I had a new one going was only an hour)
 

WildWestDesigns

Active Member
How much foresight and at what cost?

I can't speak for Casey, but for me it would be as much as I want to satisfy my risk aversion. That's going to very from person to person.

Way back, probably before you were born, I was a corporate warrior dealing, albeit tangentially, with such things as disaster recovery plans. It turned out that the plans generally were costlier than the disaster that they were supposed to mitigate.

Poorly conceived plans can do that to you to you as well. Not saying that is the case in which you were talking about, but it does happen.


As previously noted, shit happens, deal with it. This is almost always the most parsimonious practice.

This is how some people deal with it. To some it is worth trying to mitigate, to other, they prefer not to be bothered. Is one right over the other? Debatable as you can tell from how this thread is going.

Moreover, there is no disaster of the sort being alluded to here that is life shattering. After some computer halts and catches fire or whatever your favorite digital horror might be, it has no particular effect on the course of history. Civilization goes on as rich tapestry of life unfolds, and we somehow all muddle through.

You know, I don't think anyone was/is trying to alter the course of human history with their contingency plans in case they have a hard drive (or other technical) failure. This is how I muddle through things, you muddle your way, I muddle mine.
 

TyrantDesigner

Art! Hot and fresh.
If your Acers power supply dies, you going to take the lifeblood of your business to the Geek Squad and drop it off for 2 weeks? LMAO

Seriously? A power supply is a 10 minute hot swap. you unplug *and diagram as needed* all the cables, unscrew the housing from the case, screw the new housing in and replug ... even if you don't know what you are doing .... and trust me when I say this next part ... maybe a half an hour. They sell power supplies at fricken walmart, home despot, best buy, and I even saw one in a bloody CVS.
 

SightLine

║▌║█║▌│║▌║▌█
I agree that swapping a power supply is generally very simple. For many sign shop owners who have never once even seen the inside of a computer it might be a bit more intimidating. I also clearly noted that many "consumer" mainstream systems use proprietary form factors and/or connections/pinouts. I have seen a guy fry a system firsthand putting a standard ATX power supply in some consumer line Dell desktop a few years back. That machine had what appeared to be a standard atx power supply, standard atx connector even. BUT - Dell thought it would be neat to use their own custom pinout. Yeah seriously... NOT all consumer systems are made to use off the shelf components.

http://www.informit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=339053

"only the pinout is non-standard, the connectors look like and are keyed the same as is dictated by true ATX"

Dell is not the only company guilty of stuff like this either. If you know for certian that the wally world cheapo component is 100% compatable with your system go for it. I worked in IT for for over 12 years both as a hardware engineer and later as a senior network admin for a major hospital with 3200 desktops and about 120 servers. Myself and the others telling you there is a difference in these systems are only doing so because we want everyone here on S101 to be successful. You very much get what you pay for applies to computers. Computers desinged for professional use have higher quality components such as fans, power supplies, ECC ram, faster hard drives, even some board level components such as capacitors are usually higher quality, the cooling is designed to be much better, etc, etc. These professional workstations generally include little to no bloatware, no high end audio needing bloated drivers, higher end network chips, much higher level of support and rapid warranty service, and more. Both the pro systems from the mainstream companies and the professionally made systems from Signburst have these levels of quality and support for good reason.

Regardless - I'm done with this flamefest, you know the whole "arguing on the internet" thing..... Pointless.

Seriously? A power supply is a 10 minute hot swap. you unplug *and diagram as needed* all the cables, unscrew the housing from the case, screw the new housing in and replug ... even if you don't know what you are doing .... and trust me when I say this next part ... maybe a half an hour. They sell power supplies at fricken walmart, home despot, best buy, and I even saw one in a bloody CVS.
 

WildWestDesigns

Active Member
Computers desinged for professional use have higher quality components such as fans, power supplies, ECC ram, faster hard drives, even some board level components such as capacitors are usually higher quality, the cooling is designed to be much better, etc, etc.

I have to tell you, when I put in the Asus Max. II motherboard in my dad's computer. That was one impressive board just by the looks of the quality of it all.
 

choucove

New Member
Why is it that all tech discussions lately have to go down this road? It ends up with everyone wanting to beat in their opinions like a band of techno-tele-evangelists when what the discussions should be based on is clear facts. If you want to challenge people's facts with just your opinions, then you're more inclined for a job in politics, not technology.

About the only thing missing here is, "I know you are but what am I?"

/end rant

All things said, you have to answer a few questions for yourself first to narrow down what you are needing. First, what is your budget. Second, what usage do you intend for the system (running Adobe design systems, running a wide format printer, or just plotting vinyl?) Third, what is your foreseen future intentions with this computer? What this means is don't just plan to buy a computer for what you need today only, but plan it with the idea of what you intend to use it for two or three years into the future as well. Otherwise you will end up needing to replace your system more frequently than you might have wanted.

Do you want a laptop or desktop system? Do you understand the pros and cons of going both ways? Finally, after you have these questions answered for yourself, you will have a much better idea of where to begin looking.

For example, if you just need a basic computer with limited performance to do simple tasks like browsing the internet, handling word documents, and occasionally outputting on a plotter, then yes you open up the realm of budget computers in the $500 range or so. These computers aren't going to last as long, nor offer the performance of, much more expensive systems, but they will get you by. These are the kind of computers you can go buy of the shell from the big store chains, though it's still recommended (even by the direct manufacturers like Dell and HP) that you go with their entry level business systems for business reliability and intended usage.

On the other hand, if you're planning to do some heavy design work or utilize this computer as a RIP for a large format printer, then you're going to want something a little more powerful to give you the most efficiency at handling those most demanding tasks. Do these tasks still require the most powerful computer out there? Of course not, but, it's still recommended for the sake of your most valuable assets (time and energy) that you invest more in these kinds of systems. A $1,000 system is going to eliminate the majority of simple off-the-shelf systems from be chain stores, and you're looking more at the mid to higher end business systems or custom systems to perform this kind of work.

Again, consumer computer systems, whether you're looking at a Dell, an HP, and Acer, whatever, it's hardware intentions are built really for basic tasks like checking your email, watching online videos, and playing facebook games with the idea they will be used only an hour or two every day or less. However, your business computers are built with the understanding that these are computers demanding more powerful tasks like content creation, database access or hosting, word and graphics processing, etc. and are intended for all day every day usage. This difference shows in their hardware, it shows in their software, and it shows in their direct support. Now, I'm not trying to push you getting one brand over another, as really that is a little more detailed of a discussion than what we have gotten to yet with the information available, and is more based on end user preference. In reality if I'd have to make a recommendation it would still be a custom-built system by someone who knows what real high quality hardware is, who knows how to fine tune the system specifically for your needs, and who is available for you any time you have questions or need support. This would be where I suggest calling Casey with Signburst.
 

signmeup

New Member
All things said, you have to answer a few questions for yourself first to narrow down what you are needing. First, what is your budget. Second, what usage do you intend for the system (running Adobe design systems, running a wide format printer, or just plotting vinyl?) Third, what is your foreseen future intentions with this computer?
This is the sort of thing that should have been asked in the first reply to the OP. :goodpost:

I use a computer to run Corel draw and a plotter, surf the net and a little email and Skype. I can buy a machine for a few hundred bucks that will do this. I spent a little more($500ish) and am very happy with it's performance. Sure, I would like to have a hyper fast state of the art machine but I really don't need it. I would like to have an Aston Martin instead of my Dodge Caravan. But again... I really don't need one.

If my computer totally died I'd go buy another cheapy. My data is on two separate external drives and dvd so I'd be out a bit of time. I also have my old computer set up with Corel, my plotter drivers and my email settings so I can be operational in just a few minutes.


Why do these threads always go this way? "Hardware weenies" exist in almost every trade/hobby you can dream up. Someone always has to have fastest, bestest thing going. I get quite a charge out of woodworkers who visit my shop and see the kind of gear I use to make things. They usually have a ton of fancy gear they got from Lee Valley Tools (the holy bible for wood working hardware weenies) and most of them make things like paper towel holders. There are a few on this forum that have absolutely phenomenal computer systems that can't lay out a simple business card.

It also appears to me that a computer from a couple of years ago that would give a hardware weenie a stiffy is now the same stuff you can get at Future shop for cheap. My advice... buy what you need and bank the rest for a rainy day. If you need a really fast monster of a computer that's fine... just don't assume I need one.
 

choucove

New Member
My advice... buy what you need and bank the rest for a rainy day. If you need a really fast monster of a computer that's fine... just don't assume I need one.

This is some great advice! I've done computers for a broad range of people and businesses, and a lot of times I deal with two extremes:

The first is the company that wants to spend the absolute bare minimum on a cheap throw away computer when they need something with a lot more power or reliability. This is the company that goes and buys a bunch of $400 eMachines from off the walmart shelf to do all of their daily office work, including sharing out files, handling large scanned images and documents, creating and sharing video files, etc. In the end, they have to replace computers within a year because half of them have died and the rest are running internet and videos slower than most cell phones. These companies have a very hard time when I step in and tell them they need to budget $1,000 per computer, but will last them four years between replacements. Instead, they'll spend almost double that in four years time fixing random issues on each computer or flat-out replacements.

The second company is the one that wants the biggest and baddest and is willing to nearly bankrupt themselves to have it. These kinds of companies aren't as prevalent around here for me as the first kind of company, but I've dealt with them. When they request a quote for a few new office computers to check emails, type some word documents, and store pictures from off of their cameras, they want to have a system with a Core i7-2600 with at least 8GB of RAM and a 2 TB hard drive. They will never utilize a quarter of that kind of system doing that kind of work, and they will never even grow into it. You can easily do that same kind of work (and much more powerful work) with a Core i3-2100 and 4 GB of RAM with a 500GB hard drive. Save half your cash and either put it towards other business improvements (perhaps your networking equipment could use replacement? Perhaps you could use a dedicated file server?) or purchase a couple spare parts in case you do have a failure and need an instant switch-out.

While I could tell you that ideally you should aim for getting a high-performance Core i5 or even Core i7 desktop system for design work, that may still be outside your price range or what you really NEED. I've assembled a ton of systems lately with the Core i3-2105 processor and I'm telling you it's one heck of a workhorse processor for an "entry level" desktop processor. Yes, you can get a quad-core processor to give you a little more performance, but in your day-to-day usage you will see very little difference between it and the entry Core i3-2105.

In fact, my personal computer is built on a Core i7-2600K with 16GB of DDR3 1600 memory and two Vertex 3 SSDs in RAID 0. The only time I see a speed difference really between this computer and my office desktop - a Core i3-2105 processor with 8GB of DDR3 1600 memory and a 1TB platter hard drive - is when working with very big files in Photoshop or when doing gaming. Otherwise, their performance is very hard to tell apart. However, one lower powered system was a third the price of the high end system!
 

signmeup

New Member
In fact, my personal computer is built on a Core i7-2600K with 16GB of DDR3 1600 memory and two Vertex 3 SSDs in RAID 0. The only time I see a speed difference really between this computer and my office desktop - a Core i3-2105 processor with 8GB of DDR3 1600 memory and a 1TB platter hard drive - is when working with very big files in Photoshop or when doing gaming. Otherwise, their performance is very hard to tell apart. However, one lower powered system was a third the price of the high end system!
I don't have a clue what a core i7 2600 is. I do know I have an AMD quad core 3.1gh processor 'cause it says so on the box. I think I might even understand the basic consept of having 4 cores... but I wouldn't swear to it.
All I know is I have never had to wait for this computer to do any command I have given it in CorelDraw x4. Of course, I draw simple stuff at a fairly slow pace. In fact I strive to make my stuff as simple as possible.

You were a great help in helping me choose a new laptop for my daughter. It has a core i3 something or other in it and She's very happy with it. :thumb:
 

royster13

New Member
I think that sometimes we simply do not realize how much slower 1 computer is than another....Someone once told me that based on my workload I might do 80,000 keystrokes/mouse actions a day....If each action just took 1/20 of a second longer on a slow machine versus a fast machine, that translated in to an hour of my time....Not sure how one measures that but it was an interesting concept....
 

bob

It's better to have two hands than one glove.
I think that sometimes we simply do not realize how much slower 1 computer is than another....Someone once told me that based on my workload I might do 80,000 keystrokes/mouse actions a day....If each action just took 1/20 of a second longer on a slow machine versus a fast machine, that translated in to an hour of my time....

As with most straw man arguments, if your aunt had a dick she'd be your uncle.

1/20 of a second is measured in eons on the oldest, most stove-up, constipated machine you might uncover. Perhaps there in your Aunt Minnie's closet, the one she came out of.

Restate your ridiculous example; say one machine took a micro-second, still a geological era to any computer not running on vacuum tubes, longer than another to respond to external stimulus. Your 80,000 actions turns into the savings of a massive 8/100 of a second over the day. Wow. Now there's a reason to rush out and buy something you don't need.
 

choucove

New Member
It's not a matter of saving micro seconds, it's a matter of saving minutes per day, which does add up. As I stated before in my example of our own shop and our own production, we saw a very real decrease in the amount of time waiting for our systems to respond by upgrading to new computers capable of handling our software easily. This matter of a few minutes throughout the day of saved time does lead to undoubtedly more productivity which does lead to undeniably higher possibility of income. If your new RIP computer is now capable of printing out 10 banners a day instead of the old system which could only print 8 because of the time spent between jobs processing, then you are being more efficient and outputting more products in the same period of time. That's increased productivity.

It's not a matter of saving a couple micro seconds because your processor is able to render the filter you just applied in Photoshop faster than your old computer, it's the overall picture that day after day of handling every task faster leads to greater productivity which leads to a greater margin of income. And as I pointed out just in our example, that possible amount of increased income from productivity is noticeable. Yes, it's very difficult to measure the amount of time saved from upgrading to a new computer, and that depends on a great number of circumstances and factors. But you will hear one line from pretty much every single person out there that buys a new computer: "Boy this thing just flies compared to my old one!"

When you're in a business where time means money, that does translate into more potential money.
 

Techman

New Member
I found that very few designers/operators ever spend an entire 8 hr day pounding the keys. I watched a few spend a percentage of their time.. "visualizing" their plan. I visited a local shop that designs packaging. Even then I did not observe any designer just sit there pounding away. So the value of a super fast machine rendering a project is a moot point... That is unless the operator is siting there solid hours after hours pounding the keys.
 

GAC05

Quit buggin' me
I have an older dual core XP machine and a newer quad core 64bit win7 machine.
The difference in speed editing large complex vector and bitmap files provided by customers (who have no interest in optimizing files for print or edit) makes editing on the dual core a waste of time.
Same editing programs - same files.
File loading - screen refresh - zooming/panning - saving - merging - printing - all faster on the new machine.
No question the new machine is more productive.
XP machine works fine running the plotter and answering the email.
Win7 box takes care of the editing - ripping - printing - 3d stuff.
All good.

wayne k
guam usa
 
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