What did i do wrong? (customer meeting)

[john1]

Hey guys, I had a customer call me this afternoon and wanted to do a meeting with me. I met him at a coffee shop a year ago as i was getting into my car and he took my card. Today he wanted some rear window advertising for his company that does charters and fishing in Alaska. Since i work from my home i usually meet customers at a cafe up the street about 1/4 mile from me and discuss what they need done.

On the phone i opted to get enough information for a ballpark quote for him so nobodys time was wasted anymore than it had to be but he insisted on meeting to see exactly what he wanted done. I thought this was promising as opposed to someone just wanting to waste my time.

The customer meets with me, things are going great, i measure the advertising area, do some rough sketches on paper to get a feel for what he wanted, i figure up a estimate for what he wanted done and he says alright can i see this all layed out on the computer before i make the purchase. I said yes you can but for the layout i require a deposit to compensate my time and he goes "How much is that?" and i reply the layout is $90.

The total for the advertising is $285 installed and the $90 was included in that. The way i price things anymore is i include meeting time, layout time, vinyl production and installation because as you know, it all takes time which is money. It was his business name in matching lettering from his website, the location of his business, phone number and website. Pretty typical, this used two cut vinyl colors and the graphic area was about 1x4'.

He then says "i leave for a trip Friday, Is it possible to have this on the truck by Friday?". I reply that it's already 5:15 on Monday evening, Thursday is Thanksgiving and we would have to approve the artwork Tuesday to have the material ordered and the graphics installed for Wednesday so it would be tight.

He then says he will call me tomorrow with his credit card information and put the deposit down on the design.

At this point i already feel as i have lost the sale because it makes no sense as to why everything was going well but when it came to a deposit on the layout he has to call me tomorrow. Maybe the layout design was too much but my time is worth something. I charge $90/hr on designs and $66 a hour on labor/shop rate.

Anyone have any advice for me to take with me on my next customer meetings? Hell, do i have to be charging for meetings to sort out people or what?

 

[Locals Find!]

I think your first step would be to next time not tell a customer your going to charge them $90 before you do anything when your meeting at a cafe. You should have said, "I charge $90 an hour and will charge you in 1/4 hour increments, when would be a good time we can sit down and go over this together at my office" (Go rent a virtual office to meet clients, many of them provide you an office that you can use "X" amount a time a month for meetings)

I understand completely why he walked away. No office, no shop, and you want $90 up front before I see anything. Not a good first impression. When you work out of your home you can't make the same demands for your time as someone with an office/shop. You don't give off a professional appearance and people wonder if your really a business or just some scammer.

Edit: just wanted to add. I am speaking from experience here. I ran my business out of my house the first couple of years. Never got near the amount of work or the better prices for my work till I got my office.

 

[threeputt]

My feeling is this. Maybe don't break out the layout charge.

Just quote him the $285 for the job, finished, installed done deal.

Some people freak out if they think they're buying just time. They prefer to think they're buying a physical product. You and I both know that the design (or layout as you call it) is a part of the sign, but some people just don't get it.

Regarding weeding out "tire kickers" from "buyers"...it's an art form. This situation is not unique to you, but every sign shop, and I'd venture to say nearly all businesses.

By skillfully asking the "right" questions, pressing carefully toward the sale, you should begin to get an idea if the deal's going to go together or not. And you need to find out sort of "early on" in the sales interview. It's a feeling more than anything.

Still, after nearly forty years in this game I get skunked now and then.

 

[Techman]

You did just fine.
You follow your bizz model and stay the course. If they self disqualify so be it. His attitude that you should do a lay out for free is the result of so many others doing their work for free.

His lack of commitment is a good sign though. It tells you that you need some marketing coaching on how to present offers to your client.

 

[FS-Keith]

I understand completely why he walked away. No office, no shop, and you want $90 up front before I see anything. Not a good first impression. When you work out of your home you can't make the same demands for your time as someone with an office/shop. You don't give off a professional appearance and people wonder if your really a business or just some scammer.

Agreed. but you should do a little better job screening people before you take the time for a sitdown and stuff. After a few questions its easy to tell who is for real and who isnt.

 

[4R Graphics]

I would say dont worry about it if he doesnt pay or hire you it may be a blessing.

I get half upfront period and if they decide to not go with the graphics I subtract my hourly rate for the design work from the deposit and give them the rest back along with a written form stating that I own the graphics rights but for an extra fee they can have the rights.

People who usually are on the fence about deposits in my experience are usually price shopping or are cheap customers and they usually are a pain to deal with.

Like your customer he comes in Monday wants the graphics by Friday morning and Thursday is a holiday and when you tell him it can be done he doesnt jump to pay the deposit to get it going. I wouldnt worry about it you probablly would have been jumping through to many hoops to make him happy and all over a holiday week.

I would have charged him an extra rush job fee and it would have been higher than the normal rush job fee just because of the holiday and I would have gotten at least Half up front.

 

[MichaelAlmand]

Yeah I would meet them at thier workplace, instead of a cafe or diner. When someone wants to meet me I go to their workplace and meet with them there. If they don't have a workplace than they will understand. I think you did fine asking for a $90 prepayment. vI get burned all the time with people who take my designs elsewhere. Quotes should be free, your time and artowrk shouldn't. But honestly I think your client thought you couldn't meet his deadline.

 

[john1]

Thanks so far everyone, I always get 50% up front but taking a new approach, i figured that getting paid for my layout is the most important a this point and he didn't even appreciate that. It's less expensive to the customer than half at this time and really does pay me for any layout time i would have.

The customer doesn't have a workplace, well he does but in im Maryland and his work is in Alaska....lol

 

[Stan B]

+1

My feeling is this. Maybe don't break out the layout charge.

Just quote him the $285 for the job, finished, installed done deal.

Some people freak out if they think they're buying just time. They prefer to think they're buying a physical product. You and I both know that the design (or layout as you call it) is a part of the sign, but some people just don't get it.

Regarding weeding out "tire kickers" from "buyers"...it's an art form. This situation is not unique to you, but every sign shop, and I'd venture to say nearly all businesses.

By skillfully asking the "right" questions, pressing carefully toward the sale, you should begin to get an idea if the deal's going to go together or not. And you need to find out sort of "early on" in the sales interview. It's a feeling more than anything.

Still, after nearly forty years in this game I get skunked now and then.

 

[Bannerday]

Two things that might help:

Get a Squareup account, so you can take the deposit right there. Ive been using it with good results for a month. Best of all, its free to sign up.

Always make sure to wear a company shirt, jacket etc. Makes you look more professional & gives customers a better impression.

Closing any deal is always the hardest part. Not going to close them all.

Never know, he may call with his card #. Hope he does.

 

[Gino]

Don't waste time worrying about it. Nothing is lost yet.

Wait til tomorrow and if he doesn't a call, he's probably doing you a favor. That is a very tight schedule and leaving no room for error on anyone's part is probably a little bad on your part a day before a big holiday.

We're not promising anything until next week. No sense knocking yourself silly over this. Besides, it's only $300. He ain't gonna go anywhere else for that price by Friday.​

It would've been more professional just to be upfront and tell him his time restraint is too close for comfort and you'd rather see him come back next week. If you like telling people your cost for time, I'd be careful. It's not their fault you don't have a place to come and talk. To me it sounds more like a charge for just meeting him in a coffee shop and you're charging him for getting there, talking to him and the coffee to boot.

It's easy to get paid for your creation time without making it sound like a pitch for extra money. Simply tell your client you cannot give out drawings until after they make a commitment in the form of a signature, date and monetary deposit towards their own project. Include the art time, but don't line item it. Once they commit.... show til your heart's content.

 

[john1]

Hey Gino, what would the form look like for the art time on your end?

I also was dressed very well in my business collared shirt, khakis and nice dress shoes. I never come to a meeting from the gym lol I do have a square reader and had it ready and told him I could do it on the spot.

 

[Bannerday]

Sounds like you did all you could. Might just have to chalk this one up.

 

[Gino]

Hey Gino, what would the form look like for the art time on your end?

I also was dressed very well in my business collared shirt, khakis and nice dress shoes. I never come to a meeting from the gym lol I do have a square reader and had it ready and told him I could do it on the spot.

By the sounds of your first post, you were looking for about $195. for the job itself, plus your design time of $90. I wouldn't split an art cost out. It's for an entire job,... meeting, design, materials, overhead and profit... take it or leave it and be ready to walk away.

You tell him the job will come to $285. plus tax. He says he wants to see the drawing first, you simply tell him, I need you to sign and date this quote and your deposit. If he hems and haws, just tell him, look, we're running out of time and I don't want to be pushed into something I don't feel comfortable doing because of your tight deadline. Let's do this next week if you can't cover 1/2 up front, now. Tomorrow is too late. Plain and simple. He'll either go home and get a check or for $150. he could go to the nearest ATM for cripe's sake. This whole job is hardly worth the hassles and hoops he's putting you through.

When we break out design costs, it's when we're making a design and it's gonna take a couple or 10 hours worth of time and we're charging at $145 per hour. That's kept totally separate from fabrication, production, materials and labor. What you're doing here is just arranging some words, a picture or two, so don't confuse the poor sap with technical terms when they don't apply.

You can over complicate things by using too many terms which is probably what you're sensing from this guy right now. He probably had the deer in the headlight look when you dumped all your stuff on him and he's probably wondering if he can get a more simple job from someone else for less. Ya gotta be careful when throwing cute words and phrases around. If ya sense you're loosing the sale, be quick to back up your statements or cut the guy off and not oversell the job. Some people just never know when to shut up... cause the sale was already done and now you're talking yourself out of a sale. ​

 

[Sticky Signs]

Gino is right. Wait till tomorrow to start worrying about it. If he doesn't call than you may want to rethink your approach. I like the idea of meeting them at their workplace rather than a coffee shop too. Either way, no point in loosing sleep over a small job. If I had a nickel for every job that I've quoted and not got, I'd have a dump-load of nickels!

 

[Custom_Grafx]

That sux.

I'm sick of all these customers recently who wanna screw on the first date. Where has all the etiquette gone.

No class, no class at all really.

Let's at least go out a few times beforehand eh?

 

[john1]

hahahaha!

 

[Border]

You're not far off but...
I would have:
1. Met them at their workplace rather than your home or a coffee shop
2. not made mention of my need to order materials for a job of that size
3. Had in place, a method to collect or secure a signature for a down payment on the spot

It's tough in the early stages but ya gotta give off the feeling that you are not a small time company as much as possible.
Try to review the meeting from the other person's point of view as much as possible, then make adjustments to your next meeting.

 

[royster13]

I never worry about getting paid for layouts or get deposits....I make enough sales and make enough money on what I do that it is not an issue.....I think getting too tough with potential clients drives them away.....

 

[visual800]

In my opinion he was already wanting something NOW! that right there is already a sign he could possibly flake. Why people wait unitl the last minute to get stuff is beyondme. When customers are in panic mode they have NO DEDICATION to anyone they will do anything to get what they want except the right and sensible thing!