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News What do you think about the current votes...

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Gene@mpls

New Member
Voter fraud of any appreciable amount is a myth floated by the people most likely to commit it. We have a new president in January and I, for one, am pretty happy about it. I hope that the country can put itself back together and that this does not devolve into a very ugly civil war. I am 50+ years past my basic infantry training and thankfully have not had to put it to use so far.
 

Reveal1

New Member
Voter fraud of any appreciable amount is a myth floated by the people most likely to commit it. We have a new president in January and I, for one, am pretty happy about it. I hope that the country can put itself back together and that this does not devolve into a very ugly civil war. I am 50+ years past my basic infantry training and thankfully have not had to put it to use so far.

Widespread voter fraud is not the issue. Voter fraud in just a few key areas can swing the election. The tremendous increase in mail-in ballots and extended counting deadlines can reasonably call results into question. Does anyone remember Gore challenging the count all the way to SCOTUS? Just over 600 votes decided that election. There is a long-standing process in place that permits candidates to challenge counting, ask for recounts etc. and it is reasonable to let that play out, regardless of your emotions regarding for the other side.
 

Snydo

New Member
Widespread voter fraud is not the issue. Voter fraud in just a few key areas can swing the election. The tremendous increase in mail-in ballots and extended counting deadlines can reasonably call results into question. Does anyone remember Gore challenging the count all the way to SCOTUS? Just over 600 votes decided that election. There is a long-standing process in place that permits candidates to challenge counting, ask for recounts etc. and it is reasonable to let that play out, regardless of your emotions regarding for the other side.
600 votes did not decide the 2000 election, it's fairly well documented that a corrupt Republican Secretary of State, with the help of the GOP stole that election.
There is a documentary called "537 Votes" on HBO and multiple Republicans admit to literally stealing the 2000 election.
That time it cost this country trillions of dollars, many American lives(9/11 and military losses afterwards), as well as half a million(at least) Muslim lives.
 

Reveal1

New Member
600 votes did not decide the 2000 election, it's fairly well documented that a corrupt Republican Secretary of State, with the help of the GOP stole that election.
There is a documentary called "537 Votes" on HBO and multiple Republicans admit to literally stealing the 2000 election.
That time it cost this country trillions of dollars, many American lives(9/11 and military losses afterwards), as well as half a million(at least) Muslim lives.

So if you really believe that, why wouldn't you want there to be more oversight this time?
 

Reveal1

New Member
Awesome, something we can agree upon; there needs to be more oversight. Since that process has just begun, I'm looking forward to see if your speculation as voiced in your second statement is proven to be true or not, and will accept the outcome.
 
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Signs101Admin

Owner
Staff member
Democracy Ended 2020. We may have the first truly illegitimate elected president. China gave us Covid and Biden congratulations America!
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Ya see, the difference is, as I see it..... while those on the right know there was voter fraud..... or whatever ya wanna call it, we're still not burning down towns, destroying millions upon millions of other people's property and we're certainly not killing innocent people. We are law abiding, just calling the shots as we see them and read of them. Only 50 miles from me, in a basically Democratic big city, over 200,000 mail-ins came in...... all for biden..... in the middle of the night. This is where people watching hadda do it from over 25' away. How can someone winning at almost the end in PA, suddenly get over 700,000 votes go the other way ?? This mail-in and the other stupid way of voting has been created over recent times by the dems. Why else would biden, just sit in a basement doing nothing.
 

unclebun

Active Member
I'm fine with oversight, the more the better. There is zero proof thus far of any fraud, anywhere...zero.
Well, if you refuse to ever allow examination of the evidence, there never will be proof either. The fact is, if every state had done mail in voting the way Missouri did, there would be very little question of fraud due to mail in voting. I don't mean to brag or anything, but the mail in voting in Missouri was as secure as absentee voting has always been. In fact, the only difference was that you didn't have to have one of the allowable reasons why you can have an absentee ballot. You still had to get the ballot notarized. It still had to be received before election day to be counted.

Sending out ballots to everyone in the state is a recipe for calling the validity of votes into question. Not requiring any way of second party certification of the identity of the voter (mail in or in person) is another. Allowing unregistered voters (same day registration) to vote on election day is another. Allowing mail in ballots to arrive after the election date is another, since it allows the possibility of manufactured votes being added if necessary. Not allowing observers from all candidates to closely observe the counting and verification process is a big red flag, as is blocking view of ballot counters with coroplast walls.

To say that voter fraud has never happened is to forget about the political machines and their practices that ran major cities and states for many decades through the late 19th and into the 20th century, and to some degree, still continuing today. There is a lot at stake in elections, far more than who voters cast ballots for or who says they are going to do what. Politics in this country is the biggest game with the highest stakes. People don't invest money without expecting far more in return, in money, power, and influence. Look at the insane amounts of money spent to try to win Senate seats--over $150 million on one candidate in one state. When the stakes are that high, cheating at every level should be suspected and expected.

The last 3 and a half years have been spent trying to prove that the current president won the election by cheating and Russian collusion. If that doesn't speak to the possibilities, nothing does.
 

Jburns

New Member
I think the present danger is the news networks calling a winner- with the contested states in play. secretary. of states handling Philadelphia, Detroit, Atlanta, Carson City, Phoenix- man... just man... we all should agree on transparency in counting and legitimate ballots.

news networks calling a winner, with uncertified states - creates legitimized perception problems for the projected winner. nobody has patience, and the media companies wan to be first.
 

ikarasu

Active Member
I dont see how there could be voter fraud on the scale you guys are talking with mail in ballots.

If after all the recounts and lawsuits happen, and all these ballots suddenly got lost, or destroyed in a fire... I'll agree with you... Until then... It's just too easily provable if there was fraud.

I think electronic votes being faked is much easier to do... Such as last election. And even then, I don't think that's how trump won. Voter fraud is too big of a risk for too little of a reward... A few votes here or there is nothing, and fabricating thousands to hundreds of thousands of votes is near impossible.

I don't like how the election was handled, they knew the results were going to face scrutiny and they should have done everything to be as transparent as they can.. But they didn't. .. But that's another issue.


How does your ballot counts go - is it not a mix of Republicans / democrats counting? Or is it just one side? There has to be, or should be, checks and balances ensuring neither side is cheating.

Until it's proven Otherwise.... You should.trust in the system that's been in place. Otherwise you're going to have the same situation as last election.... How tiring was it/is it still to hear democrats cry that Russia cheated and that's how trump got elected?

Also don't forget trump told everyone to vote wary and in person and not by mail. Is it so hard to believe a bulk majority of these mail in ballots were from democrats when trump told people not to vote by mail?..
 

dypinc

New Member
So where did they come up with these thousands of extra ballots/vote in the middle of the night and all for one candidate? And in more than one total democrat controlled city.
 

unclebun

Active Member
The inability to see large voter fraud is based on the idea that fraud happens accidentally, or by individuals doing it on their own. It does happen. But when someone is caught, it usually has involved only one person doing something. Two years ago there was one woman, an election official in her county, who was caught falsifying ballots and voter registrations during the interim election. She was prosecuted. But it appears this was something she had undertaken on her own, though it was implied that she had done this for some time in previous elections as well. But larger ballot counting fraud happens at the county level or higher. And that is hard to prove. Votes are counted by the county clerk and his/her employees. County clerks are elected in most places though a few appoint them. Either way, it is a political position. Therefore, all the vote counters are from the party of the county clerk. By law, every state requires that observers from each party be present to verify that there is no voter fraud taking place while ballots are being opened and counted. Every state has always had an accommodation for voting by mail, formerly called absentee voting. It has always been the case that absentee ballots had to be requested, sent out, voted, notarized, and had to be received by the county clerk prior to election day. This year, Democrats led the rush to make all voting mail in and to abandon the established methods of ensuring that every vote was a legal vote. They eliminated the requirement of ensuring that the registered voter was the one who filled out the ballot and mailed it. In some states they eliminated the requirement to request the ballot by mailing ballots to everyone they had on their voter rolls, rolls which they have vociferously fought in court the last 8 years to keep anyone from going through them to remove dead people or people who have moved elsewhere and are no longer in that jurisdiction. Then, even though they mailed out the ballots starting the end of September, taking Pennsylvania as an example, even though the state law allowing mailin voting specified that all ballots had to be received by the county clerk by election day, the governor decreed that they would take them any time as long as they were postmarked by Nov 10. Why anyone thought the ballot would take that long to get to the clerk is beyond comprehension, considering the latest date to get one was October 27, and we're talking about mail that stays within one county, not crossing the country. They used made-up stories about Republicans slow-walking the mail to go to court and get a judge to say that they had to accept votes that late. So although Congress gave the state legislatures control of voting procedures, a Democrat governor and Democrat judge made a new law on their own.

Then you add in that in Philadelphia, the city which "swung" the count after election day, they refused to let observers watch the process, then after an injunction let them in but required that they be 30' away and put up barriers around the counters so nobody could see them. Observers are supposed to be able to verify that each ballot envelope is properly completed and each ballot is correctly marked so they can contest a particular ballot if they see something wrong.

Then you add in the history that in these Democratically controlled cities we have a long history of late-night "discoveries" of caches of tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of absentee ballots in the trunk of someone's car, in a closet in some other government building, and so on, and the court cases involving those, and in this election the same sort of thing filmed at 4:30 am in Detroit with vans pulling up to the supposedly closed counting place and delivering loads of ballots, and you can see how questions arise as to legality.

Had they not gone to the lengths of making sure that there could be millions of mailin ballots available to be used, then removed verification at the time the ballot is completed and sealed, then allowed the ballots to be counted if they arrived days late, then allowed the ballots received to be "healed" rather than rejected, then refused to let legally mandated observers do their jobs, then it wouldn't be so unreasonable to suspect that there might be a plot to have hundreds of thousands of late mailin ballots manufactured ahead of time to insert into the flow if things didn't go their way on election night.
 
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ikarasu

Active Member
I'm sure voter fraud to some degree does exist. Someones kid isnt home and their mom gets an empty ballot and goes and fills it out... Odds are it happened. But big enough to an extent that an election is stolen? Thats the part I doubt.

Most of the "found" ballots were mail in ballots, they werent counted until late because they were ordered not to even begin processing them until election day - Republicans said there would be too big of a risk for fraud if they started to open the envelopes... So they didn't, and then the same people who demanded envelopes werent opened are questioning why theres so many ballots that didnt start to get counted until end of the night, and question why it took so long.

We can argue until we're blue in our faces about whether there was fraud or not... but it's like Covid. We're not experts... we can theorize, and in your head I'm a conspiracy nut who wants Biden to win, and in my head you're the same for trump - (In a nice way!) I live in BC, Canada - We just had an election for our government... weeks ago. I just read they are still getting and opening ballots... We already declared a winner a long time ago, but for the sake of democracy... Every vote counts. I dont know our rules about when the deadline is, but I'm glad we dont say "Sorry, mail was slow... your opinion doesn't count because you didnt want to wait in a 3 hour lineup during a pandemic"

What will likely happen is the same thing that happened 4 years ago when the Democrats accused trump of getting Russia to steal the election... a bunch of costly investigations into it that turn up nothing one way or the other. The only thing it's going to do, is divide people on the fence even more.


Today when they announced biden my wife texted me and said she's not even going to consider trump a former President. I told her to grow up... Like him or hate him, the people elected him to be a president and he was one - Whether you think he was bad or not...you should respect the office and the system that put him there. 4 years ago, more people cared to vote for Trump than for Hilary. And now.. More people cared to vote for Biden, than for trump. (Unless proven otherwise).


I know, I know... I'm Not American so I should "STFU" and stop commenting. But IMO, not being american makes you less biased to see how things are. I'm not for, or against anyone - I did hope Biden won, but not to the same degree anyone else did... nor would I have cared if Trump won instead. Sometimes you need an outside pair of eyes that are neutral to see how things are. And no... i'm not just watching CNN And listening to everything theyre saying. heck... Even a lot of Fox news hosts are telling him to concede and accept defeat with dignity... ones that have always been pro trump.

I do hope there is an investigation, and if there was fraud... Whomever did it goes to Jail (It is a federal crime, after all). And I also hope if there wasn't... we do not get a repeat of the last 4 years with investigation after investigation and it being the only topic of discussion.

You guys need to put together a team of 17 angry Republicans to investigate! Biden isnt sworn in for 2 months... Plenty of time to prove if there was fraud or not.
 
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