What would you do

[phototec]

I broke the cardinal rule, I was working on developing a logo for a friend of a friend and didn't get paid up front, after two rounds of changes I asked the customer for a 50% deposit because I could see where this was going. And the customer got upset and said he would now take his business elsewhere.


What is my best response as to informing that person, we don't work for free and the artwork which I have not been compensated for can not be given to somebody else to use?

 

[nikdoobs]

I'd just accept that you won't get paid, learn from your mistake and move on.

 

[player]

Sorry to hear that. It is always hard to do, but getting a work order signed and a deposit up front
is the only way to ensure payment at the end.

You were smart to stop the project to clarify to keep you from losing any more time and money.
His response was not the correct one. For him to get defensive and short with you shows he
was not planning to pay.

 

[GoodPeopleFlags]

Well, that sucks. Hopefully you didn't give them any vector files but someone skilled in Illustrator can easily copy a .jpg. Hopefully they will do the right thing and NOT copy it. I personally wouldn't bring up the "You know you can't use the stuff I've already done for you, right?" because I avoid conflict. I would keep an eye out and if I saw that he/she was using my work, I'd probably have a come-apart.

 

[oksigns]

player said it right.. his response shows the type of customer he was going to be. I've had lots of these customers through my bosses thinking we would do them a solid. I would pour a lot of work trusting my employers the job would be completed and be paid accordingly.. but it took a handful of these same situations to make my bosses understand you have to hold everyone to the same standard.. it's to respect the craft.

 

[Billct2]

Lesson learned. I would consider a note that the designs are your property till paid for...and if he uses them send a bill. Just don't expect to get get paid...

 

[Gino]

There are many people on this site, who don't think you need a deposit. They believe their work speaks for itself. This certainly illustrates why no matter who you are working for, you should explain the rules of engagement before starting anything. Unless you have some kinda monetary amount in your pocket, you have no control.

Let it go. Evidently you didn't tell this person upfront your rules, so you have nothing to hold over them.

 

[jfiscus]

It sounds like it could still be miscommunication. if all of this communication has taken place over email so far, then call the customer and explain the request for a deposit and go from there while actually talking. I have seen a lot of situations like these escalate quickly over email and one quick phone call would have solved the problem and kept everyone happy. Tell him that the level of effort involved in creating the logo exceeded what you initially thought and that for a higher-tier logo like his that the time commitment requires their deposit.

Either way, your services may be over with this customer, and you might still not get paid for this project.
However, they will have a lot harder time getting out of it over the phone than over email.

 

[Marlene]

I broke the cardinal rule, I was working on developing a logo for a friend of a friend and didn't get paid up front, after two rounds of changes I asked the customer for a 50% deposit because I could see where this was going. And the customer got upset and said he would now take his business elsewhere.


What is my best response as to informing that person, we don't work for free and the artwork which I have not been compensated for can not be given to somebody else to use?

sounds like your problem was this was a friend of a friend. you did two round of changes. you can explain that you waved your normal fees because of the friend of friend but now that ths is turning into more than a quick design you will have to charge from here on out. or since they want to go somewhere else at the mention of money, let them go as they clearly don't respect you

 

[rjssigns]

Don't waste time trying to explain your position, it will fall on deaf ears. Just add the experience to your "I Won't Do this Anymore" list.

 

[HDvinyl]

How much was the deposit?

 

[Pat Whatley]

You're doing work for a friend and halfway through the project you decide to demand a deposit? I'd have told you where to stick it too.

Personally, at this point, I'd just let it go with a smile and tell him that once he figures out his logo to get back with you for his sign needs. If he wants to get some other designer to use what you created as a starting point so be it.

EDIT: Sorry, I just realized you said "friend of a friend" That changes everything. Yeah, that guy you can ask for a deposit in the middle of a project to at least know he's serious. Sure, we'd all like to say we don't do anything without a deposit but we're all guilty of starting a design project that we think will be a simple, nothing job but it turns into hell. Stopping it and asking for a deposit at that point was the right thing to do. Send him a polite email telling him you're sorry you weren't able to help him and add in the "you can't use my artwork" statement as a polite little note to it. No point in starting a war with the guy, just give him notice.

 

[Gino]

Personally, I would not have any contact with this person. No sending letters, e-mails or anything. It's done. Over. Kaput. Let go of it.

I would, however, contact your initial friend and explain to him you were unable to help his friend and hope it doesn't come between you and him in the future. Don't complain or anything. That won't look good if you do, unless he starts complaining first. :Big Laugh Then...... have a field day.

 

[TXFB.INS]

Personally, I would not have any contact with this person. No sending letters, e-mails or anything. It's done. Over. Kaput. Let go of it.

I would, however, contact your initial friend and explain to him you were unable to help his friend and hope it doesn't come between you and him in the future. Don't complain or anything. That won't look good if you do, unless he starts complaining first. :Big Laugh Then...... have a field day.

I bet that the friend of a friend is already bad mouthing you to the common friend (the one who referred them to you)
You need to let your side of the story be known otherwise you run a real risk of loosing more than a PITA customer

 

[reQ]

Yep, let it go before you waste more time on that.

Few years ago, i had a "customer" who wanted me to design a label for his new product. Stuff that he wanted was pretty generic ( pink background with black scripted letters). I told him that our minimum charge is $85.00 for any design work we do, that will include 1 hour of design time + 3 revisions if needed. He was like - oh... thats a lot of money but ok. Spent 30 mins with him without taking any deposit.... he was driving me nuts with stupid little stuff, he even asked me if i can make magenta color not 100% but 101%... yes, 101%. After that, i kindly asked that we need to create an invoice and charge him $45 in order to continue, he was upset, left and i never seen him again.... But one good thing came out of that, we still laughing from time to time about this customer, because the product that he waned label made for was Self-made lube for ladies. LOL

 

[copythat]

NO Friends or Family in business

This is why I will not do work for anyone without funds. Family members I will tell them to wait for it till I get to it and it will be free, and friends right off the bat I will not produce work with out any funds. I tell them if it wasn't me you would have to provide it for someone else. I have to provide for my family so it's a no money no work. <---Also found that out just like you Phototec, that's why I cover my ( Y ) now. Take it as a loss and move on. I have a sign over my counter $100 orders paid upfront. $100 plus 50% down. No orders started without payment or deposit. NO EXCEPTIONS!



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[BannerStandDeals]

This is real world MBA stuff. The kind of thing you have to experience first-hand a few times before knowing how to deal with certain situations before either party is invested with time or money.

I would say:

1) Lesson learned, move on
2) Don't make a big issue out of the design. If you run across it, then say something but otherwise live and learn.
3) Feelings are probably hurt at this point, so I don't think I would try to salvage it
4) MOST IMPORTANTLY, establish a policy that applies to any customer, friend or family member now that you've been through it and write it down. You don't always need to take a deposit (although not a bad idea!) Sometimes if you just spell out your terms with a filled out credit card authorization form this will be enough to see if he/ she agrees or takes off.

If it makes you feel any better, my best friend has a business and was going to exhibit at their first trade show. I told him I would help him out at cost for their banner stands and back walls. Long story short, here I am thinking I'm volunteering my time and being a good friend but he has a business partner that I had never met. We jump on a conference call to go over ideas and his partner is beating me up like I need to sell myself to him on why they should use me! Hahaha! Lesson learned!

 

[DougWestwood]

protect yourself

Take whatever logo you did for this person,
and post it on your Facebook wall. If you see it later on some other client's car,
call their attention to the fact it is YOUR work, and you can prove when you did it, etc.

 

[catldavis]

After two revisions it does seem odd that you would then ask for a deposit. I mean, if they were small changes than a third revisions might have been satisfactory? Did you sense that you were never going to come to a 'meeting of the minds' with the client or did you just decide that you have already put enough time in to it and you wouldn't risk any more? I guess a lot depends on how significant the changes were that he requested? If the changes were complete revisions, he might want to see if you can deliver a product he is willing to accept prior to any payment. If they were just minor changes, then he shouldn't have become defensive if you asked for a deposit. There again, if they were small changes then you probably wouldn't have asked for a deposit. I suspect one or both of you sensed that a satisfactory logo was never going to happen...

 

[newtread]

I require a minimum 50% nonrefundable deposit.