What would you pay? What employees are worth.

[Notarealsignguy]

Our shop labor make around 40-50/year doing unskilled dirty work. I couldn't imagine being able to find someone that could run the show for less than $75k and would be more inclined to think that sort of skill set today would be moving closer to $100k. There is a difference between thinking that you are capable and actually having that as your job. It's hard to replace the owner with an employee despite what some people think.

 

[Ctrl.Alt.Del]

I'm not sure how a single parent of 3 kids could/would be able to walk away, but you need to have all of your angles covered before something else might go wrong.

Being the owner here and having both good and lousy employees over the years, ya learn how to handle people, situations and things normally out of your control. The employees can always go home and punch out at 5, but being the owner, ya don't always have that luxury.

You say ya have a plotter at home, but do you have the space to set something up part-time with a possibility of full-time ?? Start looking for your own clientele. Don't..... as in NEVER approach any of your boss's customers, that's just plain wrong and unethical. Look for people who might need a truck or two lettered or a new sign out front.

How old are you kids ?? They must be teenagers or young adults. Reason being, if you're at this 30 years , you're most likely in your 50s, so while it's not a bad time to start over, they might hinder you in putting some extra hours into pounding the streets. However, they might be able to help dear old dad out with doing things in the business.

Think about all of yur avenues and soon stop taking your boss's bullsh!t.

Covered angles are a very good idea! When I started here 12 years ago, I brought my plotter here and it works everyday at the shop. My girls are 18, 11 and 6, so trying to start up on my own would be difficult. I appreciate you writing me...I appreciate it. How many employees do you have?

 

[Ctrl.Alt.Del]

Do you have a feel as to what your company's financials are? Is the company making $$ or barely skating by? He might not be able to afford to pay you more... or he might be a cheap ass hole.

You need to find your worth in the market place.. and that might be outside the trade.

After my employment ended at a sign shop I worked at, I started working in the IT field while building up my own sign business. That way I still had a steady income while going out on my own. I did it for a few years while practically being a single father of an infant. It's tough working 40 hours a week and then doing a side hustle after hours with the responsibility of kids... but it paid off and thankfully I don't have to worry about finances anymore.

I never really considered looking outside this trade...I've done it so long that its probably embedded in my brain!

 

[Ctrl.Alt.Del]

If you're taking orders, dealing with clients, doing installs, CNC work, painting, operating all the printing equipment, doing all fabrication..you're not an installer.

I started in the same position, doing just digital printing... Now I bounce around and do everything above where / when needed, and my official position is manager. If they tried to call me an installer and pay me installer wages, I'd be gone!

I'm in Vancouver - so I'm sure it's a higher cost.of living... But it's dependant.


Our signmaker who does wraps and stuff occasionally is in the $27 range. The sign shop down the street has a guy who only does wraps, and he makes about $35 an hour.. and tried to poach our guy for the same, luckily our guy would rather die than wrap 8 hours a day.

Being a "manager" / jack of all trades, you should get more. If the owner is gone for 6 months and you're running the business, you're effectively a manager. Whether you're managing 1 employee or employees.

If he wants to be an absentee owner and put all the responsibility on your shoulders... Demand more money. If he refuses and he's paying you the same wages you can get elsewhere for half the amount of work, apply and walk away.

Check indeed and Craigslist, look for sign installers, or wide format operators - most pay range in our area is $20-30 an hour.

I think I'd rather die than wrap all day too!! When I started here, all I did was install. Now, I guess I am a manager. So I should change my question to "What are Managers worth"? It'd be interesting to check out Craigslist to see what is posted, and what the wages are. Thank you!

If you're taking orders, dealing with clients, doing installs, CNC work, painting, operating all the printing equipment, doing all fabrication..you're not an installer.

I started in the same position, doing just digital printing... Now I bounce around and do everything above where / when needed, and my official position is manager. If they tried to call me an installer and pay me installer wages, I'd be gone!

I'm in Vancouver - so I'm sure it's a higher cost.of living... But it's dependant.


Our signmaker who does wraps and stuff occasionally is in the $27 range. The sign shop down the street has a guy who only does wraps, and he makes about $35 an hour.. and tried to poach our guy for the same, luckily our guy would rather die than wrap 8 hours a day.

Being a "manager" / jack of all trades, you should get more. If the owner is gone for 6 months and you're running the business, you're effectively a manager. Whether you're managing 1 employee or employees.

If he wants to be an absentee owner and put all the responsibility on your shoulders... Demand more money. If he refuses and he's paying you the same wages you can get elsewhere for half the amount of work, apply and walk away.

Check indeed and Craigslist, look for sign installers, or wide format operators - most pay range in our area is $20-30 an hour.

 

[Ctrl.Alt.Del]

How busy is the business? How much revenue are you producing per day for the business?

Id say if you are doing enough work to bill customers 1k per day Mon-Fri you should be getting 50k-75k per year (you doing most of the work)

We average $450K a year. Thats with me, two designers and the owner.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

We average $450K a year. Thats with me, two designers and the owner.

That is not enough revenue for 4 full-time people. I could do that by myself without overtime.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

So what does the owner do? Not much meat on the bone there. 2 people should be able to handle that without a ton of effort.

 

[caribmike]

I pay my shop guy USD $15 an hour with no benefits. He's been with me for about 10 years. He only does the large format printing, laminating and mounting, makes banners and keeps the work area tidy. We don't offer installation services at all. Your position sound more like a General Manager so I would say a salary of $55K to $65K a year plus benefits would seem fair. Im a Canadian living on a island in the Caribbean where wages are very low by US mainland and Canadian standards. If I were you, I'd offer to buy out the owner or start my own company.

 

[rydods]

Jeesh! I must be doing something way wrong. We finally broke the 500K mark as a business for the first time in 2022 with 1 full time designer, 1 full time production person, 1 full time graphic/vinyl and sign installer and Me (owner) OVER full time "all positions". I figure, your 2 designers are not really responsible for helping "complete" the jobs like Dave Archer or the owner would be. And if the owner is missing most of the time he's completing most of the work himself, that's impressive to me. Almost $600k last year, 3 full time employees and I nearly pulled my hair out last year!

 

[myront]

We're a shop of 8 to 10 (8 right now). Been with the company for 19 years.
I too, am doing the job of a Production Manager, as well as, Lead Designer (sole designer at the moment), production, small onsite vehicle installs, a little IT, aid with site installs (to include bucket truck), and sales/customer service to include answering phones as needed. I don't make anywhere near the salaries listed here so far. Granted we're not a major city but the cost of living here has gone up 20% over the past 3 years. You can't rent a 1 Bd 1 Bath for less than $1500 p/mo. I own so not a huge deal for me but....And I also have my military pension but still...

Maybe I need to move. lol

 

[Billct2]

Why don't you talk to the owner about buying him out?

 

[spectrum maine]

Having a large skillset makes you a great asset. On the other hand 1 person can only produce so much in a given day. so your pay would be a percentage of the hourly rate of the shop and no more. the only person that can earn exponetually would be a salesman because he can increase sales and volume through the shop. also a good produuction manager who has outside resources to increase shop volume is very valuable.

 

[netsol]

That is not enough revenue for 4 full-time people. I could do that by myself without overtime.

it depends on the product. at my largest client, our "mobile app" developer insisted he had many clients, as large as they were. he was comparing a full line distributor,stocking 8,000 items, 600 orders on 20 trucks daily, to a high end furniture distributor, sending out a couple dozen pieces a day. Both gross about the same. two very different environments.

 

[Stacey K]

I agree with the OP, it will be very difficult to go on your own being a single dad of 3 kids. I am a single mom of 2. They were 12 and 15 when I went on my own. Many days I cried because I felt so guilty for not being home.

I feel like you could step into any management position and quickly be an asset to any company. You are going to show up every day because you are a single parent - HUGE PLUS. Managing inventory for a 'building supply company' or 'plumber' is no different than a sign shop or any other business. You have customer skills, you can manage people. You are handy and probably as good a carpenter as anyone else. You have computer skills, machine maintenance skills.

Part of this depends on what jobs are available in your area if this conversation goes South? Will you be able to find employment quickly for the wage you are currently making?

Single parent to single parent, this is the most important thing you need to consider right now if you change jobs - and how is this currently working for you at your job?

Will you be able to leave early for your daughter's soccer game? Will you be micromanaged? I'm not trying to discourage you from having that conversation but sometimes flexibility in a job when you are a single parent is worth a couple bucks an hour. When I worked in payroll and my son got sick - I could leave. When he sprained his ankle, I had to run payroll so they let him come to work with me and color in the conference room. They let me have our cub scout meetings there, let make as many photo copies as I wanted for scouts, etc.

My boyfriend is in a similar situation as you. He SHOULD be making more money but he has one kid left in school and the mother is MIA. His boss has been super flexible and if he needs ANY TOOL for his job he has it the next day. He can walk out of work if he needs to - and he has needed to. His last employer was a jack wagon so when he got divorced he knew he needed to find an employer that would work with him being a single dad of 3 boys. To him, it's worth making a bit less so he can be there for his kids.

Always keep your kids #1. It's very important to them that you are there for games, school stuff, etc. especially if the mother is absent.

 

[JBurton]

Maybe I need to move. lol

C'mon down, a 1 room apartment is about 650, that pension will go a lot further here. Then again you'd better like trees and cotton fields...

My girls are 18, 11 and 6

WOW. I thought I was the only person dumb enough to spread my girls out so far. By the time my oldest is 18 the other two will be 14 and 10. On the plus side, my middle child, 6, just helped me type her name into corel, load the plotter, and then weeded out her own name! Good god guys, I nearly teared up with pride!

 

[Ctrl.Alt.Del]

I agree with the OP, it will be very difficult to go on your own being a single dad of 3 kids. I am a single mom of 2. They were 12 and 15 when I went on my own. Many days I cried because I felt so guilty for not being home.

I feel like you could step into any management position and quickly be an asset to any company. You are going to show up every day because you are a single parent - HUGE PLUS. Managing inventory for a 'building supply company' or 'plumber' is no different than a sign shop or any other business. You have customer skills, you can manage people. You are handy and probably as good a carpenter as anyone else. You have computer skills, machine maintenance skills.

Part of this depends on what jobs are available in your area if this conversation goes South? Will you be able to find employment quickly for the wage you are currently making?

Single parent to single parent, this is the most important thing you need to consider right now if you change jobs - and how is this currently working for you at your job?

Will you be able to leave early for your daughter's soccer game? Will you be micromanaged? I'm not trying to discourage you from having that conversation but sometimes flexibility in a job when you are a single parent is worth a couple bucks an hour. When I worked in payroll and my son got sick - I could leave. When he sprained his ankle, I had to run payroll so they let him come to work with me and color in the conference room. They let me have our cub scout meetings there, let make as many photo copies as I wanted for scouts, etc.

My boyfriend is in a similar situation as you. He SHOULD be making more money but he has one kid left in school and the mother is MIA. His boss has been super flexible and if he needs ANY TOOL for his job he has it the next day. He can walk out of work if he needs to - and he has needed to. His last employer was a jack wagon so when he got divorced he knew he needed to find an employer that would work with him being a single dad of 3 boys. To him, it's worth making a bit less so he can be there for his kids.

Always keep your kids #1. It's very important to them that you are there for games, school stuff, etc. especially if the mother is absent.

Those are all extremely good points. I have had to leave in the past to get them to dentist appointments and doctor appointments, plus leaving work early to see their games or practices. Which Im very grateful Im able to do. I believe this entire thread got a bit sidetracked...I may have misrepresented myself. Im not planning on leaving or quitting...I was just wondering what Installers (and now Managers) are paid in the signage world, and wanted to compare that with my current wage.

 

[Ctrl.Alt.Del]

C'mon down, a 1 room apartment is about 650, that pension will go a lot further here. Then again you'd better like trees and cotton fields...

WOW. I thought I was the only person dumb enough to spread my girls out so far. By the time my oldest is 18 the other two will be 14 and 10. On the plus side, my middle child, 6, just helped me type her name into corel, load the plotter, and then weeded out her own name! Good god guys, I nearly teared up with pride!

When people ask how old my girls are, I reply 18, 11 and "what did you just say??!!"

 

[JBurton]

When people ask how old my girls are, I reply 18, 11 and "what did you just say??!!"

That's great, I'll need to borrow that. My wife got me a shirt on fathers day, 'you can't scare me, I have 3 daughters'. My eldest tries to scare me when I wear it, I keep pointing out that the message is for any and everybody else, since her and her sisters have run me through hell and back already.

 

[Scotchbrite]

Sign shops around here are always hiring so we check the ads to see what the other shops are offering as a point of reference for the wages of our current employees. If we let our wages fall to far behind we could risk losing people to the other shops.

 

[Shred_signs]

Our shop labor make around 40-50/year doing unskilled dirty work. I couldn't imagine being able to find someone that could run the show for less than $75k and would be more inclined to think that sort of skill set today would be moving closer to $100k. There is a difference between thinking that you are capable and actually having that as your job. It's hard to replace the owner with an employee despite what some people think.

This must be nice. Guess it's time to update my resume.