What would you pay? What employees are worth.

[JBurton]

I'm too scared of my Dad yelling at me if I don't work hard.

Can I get his number? My kids have no such fear.

Nope, Those ain't northerners..... they look different than that.

For those uninitiated to the streets of philly...

 

[Gino]

Great, ya pick all the good neighborhoods.

 

[ikarasu]

One of the best workers I've ever had is a 57 year old guy who used to be a manager, but came to work for us as our print operator.

He never takes a break, works his ass off... Runs 3 printers and a flatbed and roll laminator all at once by himself. He probably outputs twice as much as any employee. He doesn't cry when we get a rush job and he has to reload the media he just took off... Doesn't complain at all.

Then we have a young guy who's the same - he only works during the summers as he's in college, but every chance we get he's hired on.

Young people... Old people, there's good ones and bad ones on both camps.


I do find older people tend to not want to listen as much - mostly because they've been doing something a certain way for 20 years, so even if you have a better way, in their eyes it won't ever be better - and they may "try" it, but they make sure the new way will fail by sabotaging it. I think that's more to due with their experience than their age though..


We still do a lot of screen printing. We have 3 presses... But 2 of our screen printers refuse to use it and do everything on our manual table by hand. Qty doesn't matter.... Could be 10,000 prints, they'll still do it by hand and then complain about how much work they're doing and how soar they are. So now... The guy who runs our printers and works his ass off gets tagged whenever it's a high qty, and he'll run them on the press and finish them in hours instead of days, and doesn't end up with soar wrists.

It's less work to run the press.... Easier to setup, and you press a button vs having to apply pressure on n a squeegee. Absolutely no reason not to use one.... One press could replace 5 screen printers... But they won't use of one...

Some people are stubborn, old.. young... Doesn't matter. They stock with what they know.... And in most cases, I don't blame them.

I'm the same way. I don't care if apple comes out with a PC that's twice as fast as a windows PC. I'll die before I switch to apple - windows is what I know and what I'm comfortable with.

Humans are creatures of habit, can't fault them for sticking with what they know... You just have to work around it.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

That's sad

 

[Notarealsignguy]

One of the best workers I've ever had is a 57 year old guy who used to be a manager, but came to work for us as our print operator.

He never takes a break, works his ass off... Runs 3 printers and a flatbed and roll laminator all at once by himself. He probably outputs twice as much as any employee. He doesn't cry when we get a rush job and he has to reload the media he just took off... Doesn't complain at all.

Then we have a young guy who's the same - he only works during the summers as he's in college, but every chance we get he's hired on.

Young people... Old people, there's good ones and bad ones on both camps.


I do find older people tend to not want to listen as much - mostly because they've been doing something a certain way for 20 years, so even if you have a better way, in their eyes it won't ever be better - and they may "try" it, but they make sure the new way will fail by sabotaging it. I think that's more to due with their experience than their age though..


We still do a lot of screen printing. We have 3 presses... But 2 of our screen printers refuse to use it and do everything on our manual table by hand. Qty doesn't matter.... Could be 10,000 prints, they'll still do it by hand and then complain about how much work they're doing and how soar they are. So now... The guy who runs our printers and works his ass off gets tagged whenever it's a high qty, and he'll run them on the press and finish them in hours instead of days, and doesn't end up with soar wrists.

It's less work to run the press.... Easier to setup, and you press a button vs having to apply pressure on n a squeegee. Absolutely no reason not to use one.... One press could replace 5 screen printers... But they won't use of one...

Some people are stubborn, old.. young... Doesn't matter. They stock with what they know.... And in most cases, I don't blame them.

I'm the same way. I don't care if apple comes out with a PC that's twice as fast as a windows PC. I'll die before I switch to apple - windows is what I know and what I'm comfortable with.

Humans are creatures of habit, can't fault them for sticking with what they know... You just have to work around it.

I listen to everyone's input, stew on it and then tell them my rationale for saying to do things a certain way. It seems to work better than butting heads, especially with old timers. Everyone is lazy, including myself so when we talk about things that improve efficiency, it's usually laid out as something that they can buy in to. Like, why are you working so hard, just do it this way and stop killing yourself. Often times I will do some of the work for them as an example, it goes a long way to watch a fat grumpy dude knock out a job in a 1/4 of the time that they can. I tell them on a regular basis that it all pays the same, if you want to kill yourself have at it. We have a gross dollar amount that needs to be hit every week, the quicker we get to it, the more money that I can afford to pay everyone with raises as long as they continue on. But you are right, people are stubborn. Even when they agree, they still revert back to their old habits.

 

[ikarasu]

I listen to everyone's input, stew on it and then tell them my rationale for saying to do things a certain way. It seems to work better than butting heads, especially with old timers. Everyone is lazy, including myself so when we talk about things that improve efficiency, it's usually laid out as something that they can buy in to. Like, why are you working so hard, just do it this way and stop killing yourself. Often times I will do some of the work for them as an example, it goes a long way to watch a fat grumpy dude knock out a job in a 1/4 of the time that they can. I tell them on a regular basis that it all pays the same, if you want to kill yourself have at it. We have a gross dollar amount that needs to be hit every week, the quicker we get to it, the more money that I can afford to pay everyone with raises as long as they continue on. But you are right, people are stubborn. Even when they agree, they still revert back to their old habits.

It goes both ways too.

We have a manager who insists on screen printing everything. 20 real estate name decals? Screen print....

So we have to print film, burn a screen, print 20 decals, wash the screen, recost the screen ...

With roll to roll printers by the time the film is printed, all 20 decals could be printed. But "screen printers is how weve always done it... Screen printing lasts longer"

It took me a year of changing a the work orders to roll to roll and ignoring his screen printing fetish before he stopped trying

A solvent print will last 7 years, longer than any real estate coro sign would. You waste so much more on labor screen printing a couple decals than you save on ink ..


So it's not just workers. Everyone gets stuck in their ways, and until you "prove" their way isn't the best anymore, they continue to do it, over and over and over.... Human nature!

 

[Notarealsignguy]

It goes both ways too.

We have a manager who insists on screen printing everything. 20 real estate name decals? Screen print....

So we have to print film, burn a screen, print 20 decals, wash the screen, recost the screen ...

With roll to roll printers by the time the film is printed, all 20 decals could be printed. But "screen printers is how weve always done it... Screen printing lasts longer"

It took me a year of changing a the work orders to roll to roll and ignoring his screen printing fetish before he stopped trying

A solvent print will last 7 years, longer than any real estate coro sign would. You waste so much more on labor screen printing a couple decals than you save on ink ..


So it's not just workers. Everyone gets stuck in their ways, and until you "prove" their way isn't the best anymore, they continue to do it, over and over and over.... Human nature!

Yes, plenty of owners get stuck in their ways, probably even more so than employees. I'm a good listener though, everyone, even the dummy's, have input that needs to be heard and evaluated. I've made a lot of changes based on employee suggestions and feedback, our shop isn't a dictatorship and never will be.

 

[JBurton]

My favorite way to get a guy to try something new, y'all can try yourselves, but it takes two actors. My old man loves trying different approaches, it's kinda annoying, but keeps things fresh. So we get something complicated in, he devises a different method of doing it, and runs it by me. It's almost always, "that's a neat idea, if you can get the fabricator onboard". Guess what, fab guy is crusty, old, knows everything, etc. So my job is to take a printout, march down to the shop, light a smoke and start rubbing my forehead. "boss man wants to try this, but I told him that's dumb, and you can't even do it like that" knowing good and well it can be done. The fabricator will take the print out, look at it for a minute, then grin when he realizes how to do it, and that his smart ass is about to school me. I just stand there in awe of his wise words, then say, "well, if you can do it, I guess I'll let the boss know, but are you really sure???" It's at this point he doubles down, because now it's his idea. Usually I'll swing back out an hour later and he's messing around with the concept.

 

[Stacey K]

Can I get his number? My kids have no such fear.

For those uninitiated to the streets of philly...

Some of these zombies defy gravity...it's amazing to me how they can strike a pose for so long in such odd positions...

 

[Stacey K]

My favorite way to get a guy to try something new, y'all can try yourselves, but it takes two actors. My old man loves trying different approaches, it's kinda annoying, but keeps things fresh. So we get something complicated in, he devises a different method of doing it, and runs it by me. It's almost always, "that's a neat idea, if you can get the fabricator onboard". Guess what, fab guy is crusty, old, knows everything, etc. So my job is to take a printout, march down to the shop, light a smoke and start rubbing my forehead. "boss man wants to try this, but I told him that's dumb, and you can't even do it like that" knowing good and well it can be done. The fabricator will take the print out, look at it for a minute, then grin when he realizes how to do it, and that his smart ass is about to school me. I just stand there in awe of his wise words, then say, "well, if you can do it, I guess I'll let the boss know, but are you really sure???" It's at this point he doubles down, because now it's his idea. Usually I'll swing back out an hour later and he's messing around with the concept.

You're brilliance cracks me up I thought this type of trickery was something only women used! It's the only way I've been able to get my kids dad to agree with me for the last 14 years. Hmmm...no wonder he tells everyone I'm such a moron LOL

The smoke adds a special kinda touch...

 

[Shred_signs]

Use a bidet. It doubles as a shower...... I know someone who does that..... and it ain't me. Hook a 275 HP engine to it and it'll rinse ya from the bottom up. Just don't forget your safety goggles and jock strap.

Clean inside and out.

Who ain't what ?? Who ain't taking showers and who stands their pants up in the corner when they change clothes at night....... or don't you do that, either ??

Nope, running the router table, same pants and shirt for a week.

I'm the same way. I don't care if apple comes out with a PC that's twice as fast as a windows PC. I'll die before I switch to apple - windows is what I know and what I'm comfortable with.

Humans are creatures of habit, can't fault them for sticking with what they know... You just have to work around it.

but the ecosystem!!!! Grew up on windows, converted to Apple for personal, windows are all my work machines. Apple is the superior OS.

To me it's like eating a burger upside down. Everything is the same it just looks and taste a bit different but accomplishes the same job.

So it's not just workers. Everyone gets stuck in their ways, and until you "prove" their way isn't the best anymore, they continue to do it, over and over and over.... Human nature!

Generally you just have to show me you're way is better. If you can articulate that in words without showing me, I'm usually already in board.

I work hard but I don't like too. lol.

Yes, plenty of owners get stuck in their ways, probably even more so than employees. I'm a good listener though, everyone, even the dummy's, have input that needs to be heard and evaluated. I've made a lot of changes based on employee suggestions and feedback, our shop isn't a dictatorship and never will be.

Yes, my current shop still writes paper checks every 2 weeks, uses only paper WOs (they suck), has absolutely no form of inventory tracking other than a weekly sheet.

I am still waiting on my 10 sheets of acrylic I requested 8 days ago. I can't cut work if we don't have media.

You're brilliance cracks me up I thought this type of trickery was something only women used! It's the only way I've been able to get my kids dad to agree with me for the last 14 years. Hmmm...no wonder he tells everyone I'm such a moron LOL

My wife calls me a moron for other reasons. I do still have all my digits and I am not afraid of bugs so she keeps me around.

 

[ADVANCED DISPLAY]

Hi all.
I would like to see what an average wage is for installers out there.

Im an installer at a sign shop in a small community on the coast of British Columbia. I've been in the sign business close to 30 years. In fact, I have a plotter, that still works, and runs on Windows 95!

Over the years my employer has googled sign install wages and has informed me that I must be the highest paid sign installer in the world.
So Im wondering what you guys/girls would pay for an installer with 30 years experience.

I've been with this same company now for 12 years. I am in charge of ALL installs and fabrication. I am in charge of all the printing, laminating and cutting.
I deal with customers, take their orders, delegate design jobs to one of two designers who work with me. I quote on jobs, arrange install times and organize all jobs in, and out of the shop.
Im in charge of all inventory, ordering and receiving. I keep the shop extremely clean, neat and organized, and I even clean the bathroom.

Because we are in such a small town community, there are a limited number, if any, installers in the area.

My boss recently needed some time off and has been basically absent for the last 6-8 months. My two designers (one works remotely and the other is in house and also the front end girl) kept the business going and running successfully.

Im not trying to float my own boat, but to all employers out there.....What Would You Pay???

Looking forward to all responses!

Old Sign Guy

$30/hr