Whats the ideal pricing for banner and stickers?

[Gino]

While I agree wholeheartedly with ya, signman, some people just don't have the luxury of having all the printers and equipment, you have, let alone staff. Therefore, they hafta rely on top notch specs and proofing before sending files out and about. They need to check all of their calculations and typos, let alone grammar mistakes and whatnot, but then, so do you. Now, if someone sends their stuff out, they are free to do other things and make good money doing the other things. You, you hafta make all of your customers wait, while you re-run a job over. That's gotta hurt, huh ?? Never time to do it right, but always time to do it over. Those other people, just need to have their stuff padded enough to absorb the hit.

 

[Johnny Best]

Yeah but you’re at the mercy of their turnaround times and quality, and if you have a design error or customer provided incorrect info to reprint is costly and time consuming...

Those mistakes, customer providing incorrect info or design error, are going to be costly no matter who prints it. I have had great success with Signs365 with turnaround time and quality. I have a printer, if a small banner I will print it myself but find it easier and less time consuming to sub it out for larger orders.

 

[signman315]

I hear ya both Gino and Johnny and I outsource all kinds of things but banners don’t fit into that category for me. Maybe I’m old fashioned but in my opinion the barrier to entry for in house barrier production is low enough that it’s not worth outsourcing... I try to do as much in house as is reasonable. All mistakes are costly (in house or otherwise) and I pride myself in as few as possible but they are inevitable, so I guess my point was that you are more agile and can fix any errors with more flexibility if it’s done in house. Which is an asset when dealing with a potentially already upset customer. The same mentality can be taken at the car dealership, it’s not if my car breaks down but how it will handled WHEN it breaks down, service trumps all. Again no disrespect to anyone outsourcing I do it all the time, but the way the math works out, banners are so easy and profitable that a company can make better money faster when doing them in house. There’s a lot of “shops” out there that are just brokers at a desk which is arguably not ideal for the craftsmen in the same market. Again no disrespect to anyone at all, I outsource often just not banners.

 

[ikarasu]

Was about to say signs 365 is us only... But it looks like they do canada too, interesting.

Time to sign up and check out prices... I always envy you guys when you mention getting such cheap prices from them.

 

[ikarasu]

I hear ya both Gino and Johnny and I outsource all kinds of things but banners don’t fit into that category for me. Maybe I’m old fashioned but in my opinion the barrier to entry for in house barrier production is low enough that it’s not worth outsourcing... I try to do as much in house as is reasonable. All mistakes are costly (in house or otherwise) and I pride myself in as few as possible but they are inevitable, so I guess my point was that you are more agile and can fix any errors with more flexibility if it’s done in house. Which is an asset when dealing with a potentially already upset customer. The same mentality can be taken at the car dealership, it’s not if my car breaks down but how it will handled WHEN it breaks down, service trumps all. Again no disrespect to anyone outsourcing I do it all the time, but the way the math works out, banners are so easy and profitable that a company can make better money faster when doing them in house. There’s a lot of “shops” out there that are just brokers at a desk which is arguably not ideal for the craftsmen in the same market. Again no disrespect to anyone at all, I outsource often just not banners.

There's other reasons to outsource. We do lots of custom projects... Lots of vehicle wraps... Wall wraps, utility wraps, etc. All the high sqft products... We're generally busy enough that printing a banner to make $100 after labor isn't worth it. So our prices are above normal..... We still get some customers willing to pay so we still do banners which bogs our other production down.


It's not that most shops can't do banners... It's that the profit margin in them is so thin that their time is better spent on other jobs. Now if you're not busy 8 hours a day it's a different story.

We also have a few customers who want their banners sewn..... So we print and outsource the sewing. I presume signs365 has a hemming option... So your cutting out a step.

 

[rossmosh]

With banners you have two options.

1. Charge a "market" rate for them and sub them out.

2. Charge an above market rate and do them in house.

Ultimately, the smart companies do both depending on the situation.

As for your pricing, that's what I would charge + shipping from the wholesaler + setup/art charge.

 

[StickerBee]

Thank you all! While I did not expect that this thread made it this far. There is more information here that newcomers like me can learn. I really appreciate the collaborative efforts of all the members who participated in the conversation. So, from my point of view doing it as a part-time basis or side hustle. Doing the banner in-house is much profitable for me. Even if you accept a small or big job. So, based on my computation above, 50cents banner, 50 cents inks, 50 cents labour, 50 cents printer wear and tear and I added 50 cents for power/heat all per square foot. The cost to produce a banner is $2.5 per square foot, add another 50 cents per square foot if its sewn. If selling it for $6 for 13 oz and $8 for 18 oz. that's more than 200% profit and that's a lot from a business perspective profit margin. We are just too greedy sometimes? Plus having total control of the production, like grammar and spell check, colour correction and whatnot for being made in-house mentioned above. My situation is far different than most of us here, as I am a one-man sign shop trying to make extra few bucks. Regardless you can only make one banner at a time for every human in the shop. Lastnight, I made 2x10ft 18 oz banner and took me almost 30 mins to finish the banner and guy pay me $144 bucks, applying the formula stated above, my cost is $50 that leaves me $94 in profit. Not bad for a 30 mins job right?

 

[Johnny Best]

I'm happy for you.

 

[rossmosh]

Thank you all! While I did not expect that this thread made it this far. There is more information here that newcomers like me can learn. I really appreciate the collaborative efforts of all the members who participated in the conversation. So, from my point of view doing it as a part-time basis or side hustle. Doing the banner in-house is much profitable for me. Even if you accept a small or big job. So, based on my computation above, 50cents banner, 50 cents inks, 50 cents labour, 50 cents printer wear and tear and I added 50 cents for power/heat all per square foot. The cost to produce a banner is $2.5 per square foot, add another 50 cents per square foot if its sewn. If selling it for $6 for 13 oz and $8 for 18 oz. that's more than 200% profit and that's a lot from a business perspective profit margin. We are just too greedy sometimes? Plus having total control of the production, like grammar and spell check, colour correction and whatnot for being made in-house mentioned above. My situation is far different than most of us here, as I am a one-man sign shop trying to make extra few bucks. Regardless you can only make one banner at a time for every human in the shop. Lastnight, I made 2x10ft 18 oz banner and took me almost 30 mins to finish the banner and guy pay me $144 bucks, applying the formula stated above, my cost is $50 that leaves me $94 in profit. Not bad for a 30 mins job right?

Your pricing model is flawed because you're not accounting for the time it took to make the sale happen and all of the admin work that goes with it.

Also I bet if you put a timer on the process, start to finish, your estimate would be off by 25% minimum.

 

[StickerBee]

Your pricing model is flawed because you're not accounting for the time it took to make the sale happen and all of the admin work that goes with it.

Also I bet if you put a timer on the process, start to finish, your estimate would be off by 25% minimum.

Assuming I missed the points above, I can add another 50 cents per square foot so that brings the cost to $3. Still in the highest profit margin.

 

[ddarlak]

We are just too greedy sometimes?

A true capitalistic pig never thinks this....I know it never crosses my mind, especially April 15th, June 15th, Sept 15th and the worst, Jan 15th....

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

A true capitalistic pig never thinks this....I know it never crosses my mind, especially April 15th, June 15th, Sept 15th and the worst, Jan 15th....

This took us 10 years to realize, all those times we thought we were being fair... It only slowed our growth, as not only was our margins lower it typically was paired with slower pay reception due to terms or slow payers in general. This means we are losing 3+% on inactive monies.

We are going to do a review of our pricing and either axe unprofitable work or ratchet up pricing to better balance said work.

 

[StickerBee]

Pardon me, I am a new player and my cost is based on the information I learned from browsing online not really accurate but at least for a good start as a benchmark. But the formula I provided is very straight forward to compute the cost vs profit. What else needs to be done to stretch out the cost? Provided you will not be too greedy in determining your profit. But with it, I can say its a safe profit margin for an independent sign shop with low volume but at the same time not killing the signage market. I dont have the mechanisms to do marketing, I all have is $1 facebook targeted ads run daily in 3 provinces which will get me at least 200 unique audience daily and if I get one that's more than enough to keep me up.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

Pardon me, I am a new player and my cost is based on the information I learned from browsing online not really accurate but at least for a good start as a benchmark. But the formula I provided is very straight forward to compute the cost vs profit. What else needs to be done to stretch out the cost? Provided you will not be too greedy in determining your profit. But with it, I can say its a safe profit margin for an independent sign shop with low volume but at the same time not killing the signage market. I dont have the mechanisms to do marketing, I all have is $1 facebook targeted ads run daily in 3 provinces which will get me at least 200 unique audience daily and if I get one that's more than enough to keep me up.

This post right here is why Greed shouldn't be in your vocabulary. No matter what you charge at this point is never enough to grow your business to stability. If you charge $25/sqft your business costs will out weigh your profits. The early stages of business is a burn barrel. You are burning cash or credit to build equipment capabilities (increases productivity), marketing/advertising (whatever capacity you are at), client communication (reduces productivity), accounts receivables (lowers nimblness to grow and pivot), and most importantly personal time (overall wellbeing, true business success marker).

Do not think of yourself as overcharging or greedy, think of yourself as providing a cost of service and future stability. If you build a relationship with a client and then suddenly fail and disappear, your client will suffer along with you.

 

[Gino]

You're biggest flaw, Sticker, is........

You're basing your costs on each item you sell, not your monthly costs, divided between your sales for the month. With your method, if you do 8 banners a month..... you're only putting 50¢ a square foot towards your entire overhead. That won't pay squat in the longrun. Not to mention, your profit will be taxed and then you must pay your monthly insurances and business licenses, unless you are running under the radar. If not reporting this stuff and hiding what you do from the proper authorities, then perhaps, you are making some decent money, but then you are no longer considered a professional. Now, should we help a registered NON-professional or not ??

I'm all for helping you, but only if you help yourself.

 

[ddarlak]

Greed - intense and selfish desire for something, especially wealth, power, or food.

greed is an ingredient to a successful business. taken too far it can lead to unscrupulous or criminal practices, but in general, greed is the underlying driving force to putting money in your pocket.

intense in the fact that you have to work hard and sometimes put your work ahead of your family and your health. there is a balance, but anyone who has a successful business can tell you there were times that they had to chose work over something else they would have preferred to do.

selfish in the pure fact that you are competing against other companies or people for the money that your client is about to spend, you want it as opposed to the other guy getting it.

so, yes, greed is a component of business in the USA

 

[StickerBee]

This post right here is why Greed shouldn't be in your vocabulary. No matter what you charge at this point is never enough to grow your business to stability. If you charge $25/sqft your business costs will out weigh your profits. The early stages of business is a burn barrel. You are burning cash or credit to build equipment capabilities (increases productivity), marketing/advertising (whatever capacity you are at), client communication (reduces productivity), accounts receivables (lowers nimblness to grow and pivot), and most importantly personal time (overall wellbeing, true business success marker).

Do not think of yourself as overcharging or greedy, think of yourself as providing a cost of service and future stability. If you build a relationship with a client and then suddenly fail and disappear, your client will suffer along with you.

I will totally put this into consideration. And maybe wrong choice of word GREEDY and I totally get your point it's just that I don't think it that way I perceive my future wherein having a warehouse and have multiple printers running at the same time or aiming a 1million sales. The only thing that's in my mind is having enough customers and earn a few thousand bucks monthly that I can manage it all along alone where I can work extra hours in my garage after my day job while I am keeping my family time and wellbeing balance.

 

[bob]

$6.00 per ft^2? Really? If someone ordered a 12"x12" banner you'd charge them $6.00? If you don't see a problem with that then perhaps you might consider letting others develop a realistic pricing model.

 

[StickerBee]

$6.00 per ft^2? Really? If someone ordered a 12"x12" banner you'd charge them $6.00? If you don't see a problem with that then perhaps you might consider letting others develop a realistic pricing model.

Seriously? Who would've ordered a 12"x12" banner?

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

Seriously? Who would've ordered a 12"x12" banner?

We just did an order of 12x24 so it's not uncommon, but I think his comment was more indicative of the flawed 1 track approach to pricing that unfortunately is common in this industry and very arbitrary.