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What's your preferance and why?

Discussion in 'Vehicle Wraps' started by MikeD, Oct 11, 2013.

  1. MikeD

    MikeD Active Member

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    I've never done a wrap...of anything. Now I am getting interested in it and thought the members at Signs101 would be the greatest unbiased resource available to get factual, experience based advice.

    From the research I've done so far it seems that the most respected manufacturers are 3M, Arlon and Avery. I've learned that the most reliable material combination would be a cast film partnered with a cast overlaminate. I've learned very little about the installs themselves, and I'm actually interested in making large contour cut decals that would sit in the middle of the hood or door panel... I just don't want to mess with full wraps. I know that would leave the edges exposed, and that may be a problem. If the edge is exposed, is an adhesive with air-egress out of the question?

    I want a cast material combination that has good out door durability, good UV, abrasion + chemical resistance and for my sake- ease of installation.

    What cast film and overlam combinations do the professionals here use, and why did you choose them?

    Thanks very much for taking the time to give me advice!
     
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  2. Jester1167

    Jester1167 Premium Subscriber

    In my humble opinion 3M and Avery are the go to brands if you factor in looks, easy of install, and removability. Edges on laminated prints aren't a problem as long as you follow a few simple rules; 1. avoid sharp points, especially less than 45 degrees. I will typically round the corners for piece of mind. 2 Re-squeegee all edges after you remove the mask and it helps to hit them with heat. 3 How the customer cleans and cares for the graphics will play a role in the longevity. They should clean the vehicle regularly and be careful when running a cloth over the edges (wipe from the graphic towards the paint). 4. Lifespan is for vertical surface and horizontal surfaces will last half as long because they get sun all day instead of half the day. Here is an article with more detail How to care for vehicle graphics
     
  3. johnnysigns

    johnnysigns Very Active Member

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    I install the 3M and Avery wrap materials the most.

    Names:
    IJ180C/V3 with the 8518 gloss lam
    MPI1005SCRS with the 1360 gloss lam

    3Ms the benchmark for performance and I put a lot of that on, but the Avery is quite nice to use too. It has a lower initial tack, the 1360 lam combo is slightly thinner than the 3M which for me is helpful in technical areas and I think it takes the post heat better than the 3M. I'm sure that could be argued (just my opinion). You will need to be consistent with your application pressure on the Avery as you can't skimp and go light in areas if you're flying.

    For paint wrap work I definitely use the Avery the most. That's only a small percentage of my install work compared to printed wraps.
     
  4. MikeD

    MikeD Active Member

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    Thanks for the advice and link!
    I hadn't thought about care for the graphic post installation. I guess it would be in my best interest to educate the consumer.
    Thank you.
     
  5. MikeD

    MikeD Active Member

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    Johhnysigns,
    Are paintwraps the type of job where you are installing colored vinyl instead of a costly paint job? Are there issues with different inks if you are going to print on a white vinyl?
    I use Mimaki JV33 ss21 OEM ink.
    Thanks,
     
  6. johnnysigns

    johnnysigns Very Active Member

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    correct

    The JV33s have been around a long time and are definitely vetted for this type of printing.
     
  7. Jester1167

    Jester1167 Premium Subscriber

    If you are printing with solvent or eco solvent inks, make sure you let the inks gas out for 24 hours before you laminate (Rolled up tight doesn't work, like on a take-up real. The solvents need air to escape)

    Why?
    1. The solvents have to go somewhere and if you trap them they end up degrading the adhesive and lead to premature bridging and other failures.
    2. The solvents will make the adhesive stickier, and the vinyl gummy/stretchy during install. The edges will also want to curl under. All in all it will increase your install difficulty.

    I'm sure I forgot something.
     
  8. MikeD

    MikeD Active Member

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    Thank you all for the advice, and please- KEEP IT COMING!
    You are all very helpful.
    :notworthy:
     
  9. Snydo

    Snydo Active Member

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    Definately check out Oracal 3551 its a super-calendered vinyl that is outstanding for a considerably cheaper price than cast. We have some that is 3 or 4 years out and I saw it up close last week(on a trailer that is on the road 5 days a week) and it still looked absolutely perfect. And it had sharp contours, with no splitting at all.
    Not a fan of 3M, run it every day, not by choice(best customer demands 3M), they should focus more on the other thousands of products they make and leave the vinyl market as far as I'm concerned.
    Avery makes some great wrap films, I love 1005 EZ if you ever make the leap into wrapping.
    Best of Luck.
     
  10. NoMovingParts

    NoMovingParts New Member

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    I have trouble with curves & rivets using 3551.
    The Oracal 3951 w/290 lam. has been my go-to for a while.
    We've been alternating between 3m & Avery lately, but with oddball/off brand lams & the air egress... doesn't.
     
  11. Jester1167

    Jester1167 Premium Subscriber

    I find that Oracal 3951 with 290 is a lot more aggressive during install. If your shop is 72 degrees the install isn't that bad but warmer temperature will increase you install time over other brands. The big drawback is 4 years down the road when it's time for removal. It is a nightmare compared to 3M.

    Oracal 3551 is not meant for vehicle wraps, trailer yes wraps no. If your going to wrap a vehicle you have to use cast material (Mactac is the exception).
     
  12. MikeD

    MikeD Active Member

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    Jester1167,
    what is your experience with MACtac?
    I am curious about PERMACOLOR HORIZon laminate
    Thanks for helping me understand this!
     
  13. LCS

    LCS Member

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    I +1 3M IJ180-CV3. When we first started using it we grabbed a sample roll and played around with it wrapping anything that looked like a challenge. The main thing is to get comfortable with it.
     
  14. TheSnowman

    TheSnowman Major Contributor

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    I just had Insignia print me some stuff on Avery because he said it was great (deep down I'm totally against it from being bit by the reflective issues) but that stuff installed great and I had minimal problems for my first wrap. I will say this, I've done large graphics on trailers, etc, and comparing a partial wrap to a full wrap, at least on a flat surface, I'd pick the full wrap every time. Way easier to do w/o the transfer tape on it.
     
  15. Seano32

    Seano32 New Member

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    In my opinion(which my be only worth 2 cents!)
    +1 on 3M and Avery Films. 180cv3 with 8518 or 380cv3 with 8580 for those deep channel installs. Mpi1005 with 1360 or 1460 lams.(watch out for the double bubble with avery)
    Oracal is not my go to film. Ever.

    +1 On the out gassing with solvent prints. The longer the better. Soupy aggressive films suck on installs.

    I have wrapped hundreds of cars with both films and both print options (solvent - latex) prep is key to any wrap sticking its best.
    Oh and the devil is in the details. Measure 6 times cut once. Try to always look ahead for problem areas.
    Good luck
     
  16. MikeD

    MikeD Active Member

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    Thanks!
    We have solvent opions and large thermal transfer, but we are willing to buy a new printer just for this project.

    What are the best ink types for wraps?

    Thanks again for all your help!
     
  17. lexsigns

    lexsigns Member

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    I wouldn't use avery if they gave it me for free- do a search on their A8 issues a few years back- bottom line they won't stand behind the product , warranty or you... not worth it when you spend 2 years lettering over 500 vehicles in defective vinyl. ( that they knew about) just my opinion and experience with it..

    I use 3M or Oracal...
     
  18. SIGNTIME

    SIGNTIME Active Member

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    avery-doesn't stand behind their product when fails ... 3m- overpriced bc of name and stealing customers and their lam gives yellow tint... arlon-? haven't tried ....for those we use oracal 3751ra and 290 not as agressive as 3951 ... it performs great and the price isn't bad:thumb:
     
  19. MikeD

    MikeD Active Member

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    What do you all think of MACtac material for partial wraps / giant vehicle graphics?
     
  20. Baz

    Baz Very Active Member

    Never liked MacTac for vehicles. It sucks. Only time i use them is for etched vinyl.

    Wraps ... Avery all the way here. It works like it's supposed to. 3M can kiss my .... (Or i should say ... ND Graphics can kiss my ...)

    Oracal is nice but it is very agressive and harder to install. I don't like harder work ... I want whats easy to use.
     
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