SummitSignsandmore
New Member
Where is the cheapest place to order mutoh ink?
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Where do you get your ink?
- Thread starter SummitSignsandmore
- Start date
TheSnowman
New Member
Can you run aftermarket, or are you still under warranty?
SummitSignsandmore
New Member
warranty for a few more months. What can be done after its over?
I was informed how to bypass the watse tank... Thats 1 mod I have planned when the warrantys up.
I was informed how to bypass the watse tank... Thats 1 mod I have planned when the warrantys up.
miguelon.lizarraga
New Member
what is a watse tank
HaroldDesign
New Member
Bypassing the waste tank? ...What is the benefit?
miguelon.lizarraga
New Member
Oh, waste tank...
TheSnowman
New Member
Yea, you are still going to waste ink, it's part of your printer not becoming a brick. It's just the nature of the beast. All you can do is possibly switch to aftermarket inks to save money on the ink game. We are running bordeaux and are really happy with how they work, and how much we save by running them.
i noticed signs+banners price a couple weeks ago and asked my local supplier if they would match that price and he told me that part of their agreement with mutoh was that they priced theirs at like 65.00 and no one could sell it cheaper, all resellers had to sell at the same price. but maybe s+b has a different arrangement with mutoh.
miguelon.lizarraga
New Member
What is s&B's price?
SummitSignsandmore
New Member
Their 59.99 I just ordered 4. Thanks again for the intel.:U Rock:
trakers
New Member
I've always wondered two things about deals like that.
1) WTF would Mutoh care how much the ink sold for retail?
It seems the printers are simply being sold as ink distribution streams and thus by keeping the price of ink artificially high they can tell the vendor their $15K printer is really a $15K a year reoccurring revenue stream. The old razor / razor blade scheme.
In fact I was told by an employee of one of the big vendors that is exactly the way it is and if all vendors are priced fixed on ink to the same retail price there is little incentive to buy ink elsewhere.
Can you even *imagine* having the luxury of all sign shops being price fixed to the same price?
A 4x8 sign $600 no matter where you go???
2) How can these manufacturers force their vendors to fix the price without it being considered price fixing?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_fixing
You just know SW would sell them for $50 if they could.
Which leads to the ultimate question what is the actual manufacturing cost and wholesale cost for a Mutoh 220ML cart?
Right now I’m paying close to $1200 a gallon for ink. That seems a bit,,,,, excessive.
Hell I'll sell a gallon of any of my bodily fluids for that price!!
1) WTF would Mutoh care how much the ink sold for retail?
It seems the printers are simply being sold as ink distribution streams and thus by keeping the price of ink artificially high they can tell the vendor their $15K printer is really a $15K a year reoccurring revenue stream. The old razor / razor blade scheme.
In fact I was told by an employee of one of the big vendors that is exactly the way it is and if all vendors are priced fixed on ink to the same retail price there is little incentive to buy ink elsewhere.
Can you even *imagine* having the luxury of all sign shops being price fixed to the same price?
A 4x8 sign $600 no matter where you go???
2) How can these manufacturers force their vendors to fix the price without it being considered price fixing?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_fixing
You just know SW would sell them for $50 if they could.
Which leads to the ultimate question what is the actual manufacturing cost and wholesale cost for a Mutoh 220ML cart?
Right now I’m paying close to $1200 a gallon for ink. That seems a bit,,,,, excessive.
Hell I'll sell a gallon of any of my bodily fluids for that price!!
CS-SignSupply
New Member
Not a legal expert but price fixing is agreement between competitors to stick it to the enduser... Manufacturer can set MSRP price and set advertised pricing guidelines as they choose. Does not mean a dealer can not sell at whatever price they want.
trakers
New Member
But I think it goes beyond that. I know with Bose for instance, the dealers used to be required by Bose to sell for MSRP and had protected territories. Same for Harley-Davidson at least with the territory. A local Harley dealer recently moved operations 15 miles to prevent another Harley dealer from locating in a somewhat nearby town.
So the question is does Mutoh force all vendors to sell for the same price?
Judging by what I can find the answer is yes.
Fellers - $66.99
SW - $66.99
H&H - $66.99
Gregory - $66.99
Hyatts - $66.99
NuSignSupply - $66.99
ProImagingSupplies - $66.99
So the question is does Mutoh force all vendors to sell for the same price?
Judging by what I can find the answer is yes.
Fellers - $66.99
SW - $66.99
H&H - $66.99
Gregory - $66.99
Hyatts - $66.99
NuSignSupply - $66.99
ProImagingSupplies - $66.99
Mutoh does not manufacture ink, we get our Eco-Ultra ink the same place that Roland gets their Eco-Max - from Epson.
Of course we want to make money from ink, as do our dealers.
I assume you make money from ink as well.
Epson warrantees their heads only with Epson ink or a royalty for 3rd party.
So even when we 3rd party inks, we pay Epson and that adds to the cost of ink to customers.
Yes, we could use 3rd party heads and third party inks and sell printers made in China or India..........but it would not be a Mutoh and certainly not a ValueJet.
There is also a certain amount of R&D that has gone into printers and keeps going into new technology and better, less expense printers. Perhaps some of you can remember 5 or 10 years ago what a ValueJet quality printer would have cost you?
From what I do understand about inks - good pigments are not cheap and good quality control is not cheap either.
BTW, I just bought ink for my HP desktop at home - $65.00 for what 30 ml?
And yes, I have tried refilling HP carts, and 3rd party....but know what?
I know EXACTLY the output that I get from OEM ink in my 6 year old home printer......and never have to worry.
Of course we want to make money from ink, as do our dealers.
I assume you make money from ink as well.
Epson warrantees their heads only with Epson ink or a royalty for 3rd party.
So even when we 3rd party inks, we pay Epson and that adds to the cost of ink to customers.
Yes, we could use 3rd party heads and third party inks and sell printers made in China or India..........but it would not be a Mutoh and certainly not a ValueJet.
There is also a certain amount of R&D that has gone into printers and keeps going into new technology and better, less expense printers. Perhaps some of you can remember 5 or 10 years ago what a ValueJet quality printer would have cost you?
From what I do understand about inks - good pigments are not cheap and good quality control is not cheap either.
BTW, I just bought ink for my HP desktop at home - $65.00 for what 30 ml?
And yes, I have tried refilling HP carts, and 3rd party....but know what?
I know EXACTLY the output that I get from OEM ink in my 6 year old home printer......and never have to worry.
trakers
New Member
randya, I hope you did not read my tone wrong in my post as it was not meant as a hit to Mutoh. Dude, so far I love Mutoh, the equipment and the company. Rereading my first post I may have gotten a bit radical. Blame it on a long-ass day and too much caffeine. 
I agree I will not use anything but Mutoh ink in my printer. I also agree consumer inkjets ink is beyond obscene and bordering on illegal in the case of Lexmark and such. I’ve read case studies showing consumer level ink running $5K a gallon. That is why they virtually give away the consumer hardware.
I assumed Mutoh manufactured their own ink. That was my ignorance. Interesting (and sort of soothing) to know it all comes from Epson. The question is though, can any legitimate dealer sell it for less than $66.99 (assuming they would want to).
I am certainly not questioning the quality of either the ink or Mutoh printers, otherwise I would have bought another brand. I researched and researched and chose Mutoh because I believe it to be the best at this time.
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I agree I will not use anything but Mutoh ink in my printer. I also agree consumer inkjets ink is beyond obscene and bordering on illegal in the case of Lexmark and such. I’ve read case studies showing consumer level ink running $5K a gallon. That is why they virtually give away the consumer hardware.
I assumed Mutoh manufactured their own ink. That was my ignorance. Interesting (and sort of soothing) to know it all comes from Epson. The question is though, can any legitimate dealer sell it for less than $66.99 (assuming they would want to).
I am certainly not questioning the quality of either the ink or Mutoh printers, otherwise I would have bought another brand. I researched and researched and chose Mutoh because I believe it to be the best at this time.
.
Pro Image
New Member
Im not trying to be a$$ here.........
But if your going to fuss over the price you have to pay for the Ink your not charging enough.........I use Mutoh ink in my VJ and I will never use anything else.....I charge my customers for the ink......I don't pay for it myself.......
Would I like to pay less.....Well heck yea but right now I don't see the savings of going with any other ink but original Mutoh (Epson)..........
But if your going to fuss over the price you have to pay for the Ink your not charging enough.........I use Mutoh ink in my VJ and I will never use anything else.....I charge my customers for the ink......I don't pay for it myself.......
Would I like to pay less.....Well heck yea but right now I don't see the savings of going with any other ink but original Mutoh (Epson)..........
Thanks, I hope I didnt take your tone wrong or you mine.
Just trying to get a bit of information out there, so that you make informed choices.
And sorry, I dont really know the answer to your question.
I do know in the past dealer prices on ink have been different.
I was surprised to see the dealers you listed all at the same price as well.
It could just be, that in this economy, sales are down and people are trying to hold on to margins in one of the few products that are consistantly selling.
At the same time I can tell you that Mutoh customers often times pay for others 3rd party ink issues. I know we have replaced printheads and in some cases whole machines where the issues continued and it was later discovered that they werer using very cheap 3rd party inks. One customer had close to 30 grand in service calls for problems that ceased immediately when 3rd party inks were discovered at the shop. They went back to OEM and never had another service call. Is this rare? It is more rare now with the chipped ink carts.
But you can see, that ultimately this gets costed to all of Mutoh customers.
Mutoh uses 3rd party inks as well in some of our equipment, but to control the ultimate costs, we use inks with stringent quality control and accountability, and we pay up front for this, and pay royalties as we go along.
We see the demand for alternative inks and we do listen to our customers.
But, currently we only offer the OEM Epson ink for ValueJet customers here.
Thanks for your input, and I am glad you like your Mutoh!!!
Just trying to get a bit of information out there, so that you make informed choices.
And sorry, I dont really know the answer to your question.
I do know in the past dealer prices on ink have been different.
I was surprised to see the dealers you listed all at the same price as well.
It could just be, that in this economy, sales are down and people are trying to hold on to margins in one of the few products that are consistantly selling.
At the same time I can tell you that Mutoh customers often times pay for others 3rd party ink issues. I know we have replaced printheads and in some cases whole machines where the issues continued and it was later discovered that they werer using very cheap 3rd party inks. One customer had close to 30 grand in service calls for problems that ceased immediately when 3rd party inks were discovered at the shop. They went back to OEM and never had another service call. Is this rare? It is more rare now with the chipped ink carts.
But you can see, that ultimately this gets costed to all of Mutoh customers.
Mutoh uses 3rd party inks as well in some of our equipment, but to control the ultimate costs, we use inks with stringent quality control and accountability, and we pay up front for this, and pay royalties as we go along.
We see the demand for alternative inks and we do listen to our customers.
But, currently we only offer the OEM Epson ink for ValueJet customers here.
Thanks for your input, and I am glad you like your Mutoh!!!
premiercolour
Merchant Member
From dealing with 100s of customers the past five years; customers tend to blame on third party ink when something's up with their machine. Print head is consumable, period. Roland recommends to replace print head for 18 months for best printing quality. Do you change your print head in 18 months? Well, we want the print head works til the day it dropped.
Check this out. If the company prints a lot; switch to a reputable ink supplier and ask them to provide ten references at least maybe from signs101. If the customer does not print; dont bother to switch; you aint going to save much. -Francis
Check this out. If the company prints a lot; switch to a reputable ink supplier and ask them to provide ten references at least maybe from signs101. If the customer does not print; dont bother to switch; you aint going to save much. -Francis
