Discussion Where does one draw the line between graphics and a wrap?

[Pixels Are Bad Mmmkay?]

We've got a regular customer, which is a small local cable company, that wants us to do some new print and cut graphics on a couple of new vans. Well, they wanted partial wraps at first and I just threw together a rough wrap concept design (the design with the full-color family image) and gave them a referral to another local wrap company that we're familiar with to finalize the design and do the work because we don't do wraps. I have no problem leading them to someone who does, especially if they feel that a wrap would be more effective for their company from an advertising standpoint. Although I suggested they do what they feel is best for their business, they decided they prefer to do business with us (not a good reason in my opinion), and they are okay with limiting themselves to print and cut vinyl graphics, rather than taking my suggestion to do a partial wrap. They said they were cool with doing something similar to what we'd done for them in the past, so okay.

Fast forward a couple of weeks later and we've gone back and forth a few times with a few simple revisions all more or less similar to what we've done for them previously with some exceptions. This time around, they have had me change the design to the point that it's basically covering just about as much real estate as the original wrap concept. At this point, by the time you figure in the cost of transfer tape, contour cutting all these decals and installing around multiple contours, door handles, door hinges, etc., I'm thinking it would be more cost effective to just do a partial wrap as I had suggested in the first place. Not to mention, although I'm sure it may be possible, I don't like trying to work taped print and cut vinyl graphics on areas with lots of contours, door handles and door hinges all in the same area. It certainly doesn't leave much room for error and I'm thinking a wrap shop can bang a job like this out much faster and get the graphics on each panel to align just as well, if not better, but maybe I'm over thinking it.

I have attached the wrap concept that I originally suggested as well as the print and cut version that they are pushing me toward. Am I crazy to think that a partial wrap is going to put them in the same price range or less than all that print and cut vinyl? By the time I figure in how much time installation will take as well as the upcharge to contour cut everything, a partial wrap just seems more logical, at this point. Besides, the reason they hit us up about wraps in the first place was that they want to get noticed like some of their competitors that have full/partial wraps on their work vans, namely companies like Mediacom and DirectTV.

So please, what are your opinions on this subject? Where would you draw the line? At what point does a wrap become more cost-effective than print and cut graphics? Thanks for your time and input.

EDIT: By the way, the wrap design would have also had the same print and cut graphics applied to the back doors as the print and cut design has, it's just not shown.

 

[Charlie J]

Print that thing in sections. Print the background images, then the stripes. Lay them all as individual pieces. Worst things you'll have to deal with are the recessed areas, the hinges, and door handles. I don't think that particular job justifies a partial wrap. Don't overthink it.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

I agree, this shouldn't be hard for someone use to just apply cut vinyl decals. Only little thing is you'll be going over those little recesses which are no big deal.

I actually like your layout without the picture of the people. If you're worried about your time, just sub those out to S365 and have them print and cut those decals. Charge what you need to get the job done and don't worry about what you call it. My guess would be somewhere around $1200-$1800

I would consider your layout to be a "half wrap". I just did 3 vans for a Toyota dealership and even though they were only two colors, I still subbed out the print... Much easier then overlaying all that mess

 

[Pixels Are Bad Mmmkay?]

I agree, this shouldn't be hard for someone use to just apply cut vinyl decals. Only little thing is you'll be going over those little recesses which are no big deal.

I actually like your layout without the picture of the people. If you're worried about your time, just sub those out to S365 and have them print and cut those decals.

I would consider your layout to be a "half wrap". I just did 3 vans for a toyota dealership and even though they were only two colors, I still subbed out the print... Much easier then overlaying all that mess

Yeah, if we do these, we'll end up subbing it out to Signs365 just because of the overall size of the decals, and the need for precision contour cutting that our Mimaki CJV series printer isn't capable of doing and our Roland cutter is only 24". I'd never try to overlay something like this, anyway. We very rarely overlay anything these days if it doesn't involve faux gold leaf, chrome, or something along those lines.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Yeah, if we do these, we'll end up subbing it out to Signs365 just because of the overall size of the decals, and the need for precision contour cutting that our Mimaki CJV series printer isn't capable of doing and our Roland cutter is only 24". I'd never try to overlay something like this, anyway. We very rarely overlay anything these days if it doesn't involve faux gold leaf, chrome, or something along those lines.

Go for it and price it how you need to without worrying about what to call it. If you're good at applying to a flat substrate then this should be the next step for you.. you can do this.

S365 isn't charging an arm and a leg anymore for contour cutting, and their 3M is perfect for that van. Take S365's cost and triple it and add 6 hours of shop time for each van (plus your design time).

 

[Pixels Are Bad Mmmkay?]

Go for it and price it how you need to without worrying about what to call it. If you're good at applying to a flat substrate then this should be the next step for you.. you can do this.

S365 isn't charging an arm and a leg anymore for contour cutting, and their 3M is perfect for that van. Take S365's cost and triple it and add 6 hours of shop time for each van (plus your design time).

I know how I need to price it and I've done similar installs on their previous vans, just not quite as extensive and those vans didn't have side doors, only back doors. I just don't like working too much outside my comfort zone because we're already busy as all h**l and can barely keep up with the workload we have. Besides, I just thought it was weird that they asked us for wraps to stand out like their competitors and then when my response was that we don't do wraps, they were like "Well, that's okay then. We just want to stick with you guys." I say hey, if you want a wrap, get a wrap. Don't decide to not do it just because we don't offer it.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

I know how I need to price it and I've done similar installs on their previous vans,

Sorry, you asked if you were crazy to think that your design was going to cost as much as a "half wrap". I was simply sharing what I'd figure in for the cost to validate or invalidate your crazy thoughts

I guess re-reading your post you are just blowing off steam and not looking for any input. Seems like your customer just likes working with you guys and dealing with a new sign shop is outside of their comfort zone too?

 

[De.signs Nanaimo]

I am doing a very similar pick up job right now, all printed swoops partial wrap with cut text. I make a manageable print and cut file for all the separate text with bleed, this one is about 32" x 72" so the cutter can handle it. Then print the full length swoosh in pieces, the longest for the pick up box sides about 87 inches, then a piece for the back door and front doors, so three pieces for each side, and hand cut these.

 

[netsol]

jsmoritz2000
i think it's nice to see a little bit of client loyalty( inconvenient it shows itself on a job you don't really want to do)

at a time when EVERYING is a commodity, you could have a worse situation

 

[TimToad]

That project in either iteration would be a print/cut job for us. Unless 60-70% of the body is covered or the diecutting is so intricate as to make application too difficult, we'd break this into its various pieces and go at it.

 

[Johnny Best]

Well it looks like you have everything drawn out and the customer is happy with it, and have a dollar amount in mind. Looks like you have what most people on here have the roughest time with accomplished already. Just get everything cut and ordered and get the trucks in and explore some new territory. They will come out just as the customer expects from you, quality work.

 

[ikarasu]

Agreed. Your either looking at a full wrap... Or a print and cut.

Id never wrap 75% of the vehicle... You'll never match the white / sheen. And it'd look weird having only the front door not wrapped.


Print + cut for the best look... Upsell to a full wrap as an added paint protection / vandalism protection. But 9/10 times We would just print and cut and apply that design.

 

[Pixels Are Bad Mmmkay?]

Sorry, you asked if you were crazy to think that your design was going to cost as much as a "half wrap". I was simply sharing what I'd figure in for the cost to validate or invalidate your crazy thoughts

I guess re-reading your post you are just blowing off steam and not looking for any input. Seems like your customer just likes working with you guys and dealing with a new sign shop is outside of their comfort zone too?

I'm just curious, for the time and cost involved in the extra cutting, weeding, taping, and applying everything in sections, whether or not a wrap would possibly be more a more economical and better solution for them at this point. They keep adding elements to the layout that will make it that much more time-consuming to produce and apply in the long run. Since I'm not at all familiar with wraps, these responses have been very helpful and have given me some much needed insight.

That project in either iteration would be a print/cut job for us. Unless 60-70% of the body is covered or the diecutting is so intricate as to make application too difficult, we'd break this into its various pieces and go at it.

I guess that makes sense. I was just factoring in that the total square footage required would be similar to that of a wrap, plus the additional cost of production and installation.

Well it looks like you have everything drawn out and the customer is happy with it, and have a dollar amount in mind. Looks like you have what most people on here have the roughest time with accomplished already. Just get everything cut and ordered and get the trucks in and explore some new territory. They will come out just as the customer expects from you, quality work.

Thanks, Johnny. I'm sure the job will turn out fine, I'm just thinking about all the taping and measuring and re-taping, and re-measuring to get everything laid down right, but in reality, it's not going to be that difficult as long as nothing moves around on me too much by the time I get from one end of the van to the other. I'll be putting my magnets and lots of masking tape to good use.

Agreed. Your either looking at a full wrap... Or a print and cut.

Id never wrap 75% of the vehicle... You'll never match the white / sheen. And it'd look weird having only the front door not wrapped.


Print + cut for the best look... Upsell to a full wrap as an added paint protection / vandalism protection. But 9/10 times We would just print and cut and apply that design.

That's a valid point and something I can definitely agree with about the mismatched color/sheen.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

I'm just curious, for the time and cost involved in the extra cutting, weeding, taping, and applying everything in sections, whether or not a wrap would possibly be more a more economical and better solution for them at this point. They keep adding elements to the layout that will make it that much more time-consuming to produce and apply in the long run. Since I'm not at all familiar with wraps, these responses have been very helpful and have given me some much needed insight.

If you're subbing out the print/cut then it will be quicker. If you cutting that all in-house with vinyl it will take longer then wrapping. The $$ you spend on subbing all those colors out will pay for the labor of doing it in-house, something you said you're running short on. The skill level required to do that VS wrapping is much less.

I'd print the stripe, the star, the 3 colored boxes and then the stuff you have blurred in 4 different sections.

 

[Pixels Are Bad Mmmkay?]

The skill level required to do that VS wrapping is much less.

So contrary to what I initially thought, I'm assuming a wrap job of this size could be every bit as time-consuming to install as a piece by piece print and cut decal install.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

So contrary to what I initially thought, I'm assuming a wrap job of this size could be every bit as time-consuming to install as a piece by piece print and cut decal install.

Yes. More then likely you'd have to tile that half wrap somewhere, and you can't apply that baby as quickly as you can the small cut vinyl elements.

 

[TimToad]

So contrary to what I initially thought, I'm assuming a wrap job of this size could be every bit as time-consuming to install as a piece by piece print and cut decal install.

Way more time and material consuming to do it right. There is so much white space separated by a band of color here and there, text, bugs, etc. that runs across the whole side, that getting all your panels to align on that one big stripe takes some time as well as working into your deep indentations, ridges, door handles, etc.

 

[fresh]

That project in either iteration would be a print/cut job for us. Unless 60-70% of the body is covered or the diecutting is so intricate as to make application too difficult, we'd break this into its various pieces and go at it.

We do stuff like this all day long with cut vinyl. Just use cast and post-heat the recesses.

 

[Pixels Are Bad Mmmkay?]

We do stuff like this all day long with cut vinyl. Just use cast and post-heat the recesses.

I'll post heat and use IJ180 but I'll also work into each recess as I go. That's why I say it's a little out of my comfort zone. It will require printing and cutting the stripe/star into manageable sections and a bit of laying everything out and measuring before laying the first piece down but I'm up for the challenge. The stripe/star is the only thing that might be a little tricky but I'm sure if I take my time it'll all work out okay.

 

[TimToad]

I'll post heat and use IJ180 but I'll also work into each recess as I go. That's why I say it's a little out of my comfort zone. It will require printing and cutting the stripe/star into manageable sections and a bit of laying everything out and measuring before laying the first piece down but I'm up for the challenge. The stripe/star is the only thing that might be a little tricky but I'm sure if I take my time it'll all work out okay.

Now we're talking.

Do you have a set of wrap magnets for helping with placement?

I'm sure you know all this but if not, cut patches of magnetic material and use them instead of tape to hold your pieces in place. You should be able to slide your pieces a little here and there to get close alignment. Once you have the bulk of a piece on the van, you can gently pull off the transfer tape off wherever it's keeping you from working it into the indentations and such.

Good luck and hope it all goes well. It's a huge compliment when clients want YOU to do their work.