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Who is responsible for paying for repairs a serviceman created by their own doing?

Discussion in 'Roland' started by redprint, May 9, 2019.

  1. redprint

    redprint Member

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    I recently had a Roland serviceman come in to repair my printer. It had been dripping black ink out of the head, so I assumed it was the dampener, at least hoping it was. They came and did tests and then assumed it was a print head. They installed the print head and then attempted to start up printer. Printer didn't get ink to the head, so they turned it off and then disconnected the cable to a circuit board. While they disconnected the cable ribbon, it apparently had bent some of the connections. When they plugged the cable back in it didn't work at all, and then they discovered it blew out a bunch of fuses on the next board. So they had to order a bunch of fuses, then tried it again, and it blew out the fuses again. Then they ordered new ribbon cables and new circuit boards. Ended up, one circuit board was dead and the installed new cables and a new circuit board then made the printer work again. They ended up taking the new installed head out, and changing the dampener and it took care of the dripping ink problem. Now my printer prints better than before by changing the dampener I presume. But now I received the bill and I am paying for all the parts. Is this correct? I am responsible for parts that would working fine before the servicing of the printer? Anyone have any experience with this?
     
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  2. White Haus

    White Haus Formally known as RJPW..........

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    That's a tough one. I definitely feel for you and don't think it's right to pay for the tech's exploratory mission but at the same time they can't use those parts once they've put them in your machine. If they're putting parts in and taking them out (and you don't end up with them) then definitely you shouldn't pay for those, but I would think that any parts used during the diagnostic stage will be billed to you.
     
  3. AF

    AF Active Member

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    Get an attorney. Document everything that happened. Take photos. Don’t wait.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  4. 2B

    2B Moderator

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    They broke they pay for it.
    regarding the new print head, did they leave it with you or take it? if it is left, you pay for it.

    do you have means of prooving the listed actions were caused by them?
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  5. CanuckSigns

    CanuckSigns Very Active Member

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    It's tricky, this is why a good tech is critical, anyone can read a service manual and swap out parts, but a good tech can diagnose the problem and do as little "surgery" as possible.

    Did he leave the new print head with you? even if he did, I don't know how it is of any use to you if it's had and ink put through it as the ink will dry up inside the head and be useless.

    Did he run all these new parts and their costs by you before he ordered them in? did he tell you who would end up paying for them if they end up not being used?

    Sounds like an inexperienced tech to me, if a new damper was able to fix the problem, it should be a very straight forward fix, in the end, he was the one that damaged the circuit boards by not properly following protocol and you shouldn;t have to pay for that.

    If the tech raises a stink, contact Roland
     
  6. The serviceperson was working on your machine. As long as nothing was done maliciously, you are responsible for the bill. It would be the same if you worked on it, or had an employee work on it. In the end, you end up paying for it. It doesn't hurt to try talking to the repair company, but in the end it is your responsibility.

    This is a good reason to enter into service contracts when purchasing or leasing expensive equipment. Yes, a service contract is usually more expensive than ordering service as needed, but it avoids any issue of who is responsible to keep the equipment working (under the terms of the contract).

    For the same reasons (but reversed roles), selling service and maintenance contracts for the signs you install is also a good idea, especially for expensive equipment such as electronic message centers. In this case, had a service contract been in place, the repair business would be responsible for any costs (as per terms). As a seller of service agreements, it does place you on the hook, but the scope of the agreement and the sale price should allow you a fair profit. You just have to hope your repair people are competent!
     
  7. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    Hmmmm..............

    Back in 1993, I bought a brand new BMW 740IL. Sucker was ni-i-i-ce. However, about 3 or 4 months into it, just about everything started going wrong. The transmission went out, first. They put a new one in. Then, the A/C went out completely. They replaced it. Then, the front wheel rotors warped. They replaced them. Then, the transmission went out again. It was fixed again. The seat controls started going bad and they hadda replace them. We had a few others things that needed replacing and I said, when does the 'Lemon Law' come into effect ?? Oh, it won't, not as long as we keep fixing and replacing things at no cost to you. But wait a minute, I'm making payments for this 740 and I'm driving around in a frickin' Jetta all the time. You said we'd have a car of equal or better quality than the one I bought. Sorry, we don't have enough right now. Wha.....?? Do you have that many bad cars on the road ?? Well, I eventually met with BMW of North America and they said the same thing. You break it and we keep fixing it. So, I threatened them with pictures of what I was gonna do. They said I couldn't do that without a big lawsuit, but I said, it beats driving this Jetta...... and it'll make me feel a lot better. Got out of the loan without it costing me and bought a different car for my wife and she was just as happy with it, until we got rid of it 12 years later. I still told the car lot's owner I wasn't through with them, but that was just to keep them on their toes.
     
  8. ColorCrest

    ColorCrest Member

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    But not this Jetta. '94 still in the family and on the road.
     

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  9. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    Yeah, but you weren't paying for a 740........................ :doh:
     
  10. ColorCrest

    ColorCrest Member

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    Yup, I hear that!
    I'm not sure what really happens with bonafide lemons.
     
  11. redprint

    redprint Member

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    I just talked to another company Roland serviceman and told him my problem and he said if he did that, they would be responsible to fix it. I can't have a service contract on the printer, they don't sell them after the warranty goes off. I asked they said no. What this would be like, is when installing a sign, a hammer falls down off the lift and hits the storefront window and shatters it. I don't think it would go over to well to them that it is their responsibility to fix the window, just because it is a casualty of installing a sign. The circuit board would of never been cooked had the service technician would not of unhooked the cables to another circuit board. The only reason they unhooked them was to see the ink lines. NO other reason. In the end, only a dampener was replaced as well as the head circuit board and fuses they blew out twice and the ribbon cables connecting to the board.
     
  12. MikePro

    MikePro Major Contributor

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    lame. you called them to service something, and their service-work resulted in destruction of even more expensive parts of your machine? that's horrible service, at $200/hr most likely, and you shouldn't have to pay for it.
     
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  13. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    About 12 years ago, had a Roland tech in here to do something we didn't know how to do. He came with the parts and proceeded to fix our problem, then we heard...... ahh sh!t @#*&!?(.......... His hand slipped and he tore wires off of some circuit board. He tried to solder them back on, but couldn't. So, he ordered the new circuit board and had it overnighted to us. He came in the next morning and started working on it, then we heard the..... ahh sh!t again. He installed the new stuff and turned out to be the wrong part for the wrong machine. He found out by plugging it all back and blowing something else up. So, he hadda overnight another one in, plus another part now. Meantime, for a 2 or 3 hour job, we were going into day 3 or so of not printing, so he took a buncha files back with him and printed them out for us. Two days later a new tech showed up and she started to fix the machine, then told us he had everything fouled up and she now hadda order still another part. She had no clue as to what this other tech was doing or why. By the way, the other tech had been a tech person for like 25 years. He was good, but somehow, he lost his cool with our machine. We only hadda pay for the initial fix and his company hadda pick up the tab for all the stuff he broke and ruined. I requested he never come back. I've seen him since and we laugh about it now.
     
  14. redprint

    redprint Member

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    Hey Gino, yes this was very similar to what happened with my printer. But I was down for over two weeks until they had it fixed. When they put power back to it, it immediately blew the fuses on the head board which was the board that did not have the cables that they removed and reinstalled. The cables didn't have to be removed from the board to change the head and the dampener. The reason why the fuses blew was the ribbon cables being pulled off, bent the really small connections, and when it was pushed back on, I assume the wires crossed and blew out the board and the fuse. I even predicted that it would take them two weeks when they just ordered the fuses.
     
  15. Jim Hill

    Jim Hill Active Member

    One major problem now a day's is that many electrical parts you purchase are dead on arrival!

    I cannot tell you how many times I have purchased brand new products and as soon as you open the box you are greeted with a message that say's if this product is missing any parts do not take it back where you purchased it just call this 800 number for parts.

    When I took my brand new product back where I purchased it and explained why I brought it back they informed me that many of the products they sell were missing parts!
    Turns out they were buying seconds and they knew the day they stocked them for sale they were missing parts.

    It appears we are in a race for who can make products the cheapest in this country.

    In your case I think the Roland Dealer should offer you a much lower price since their employee caused the problem. Do I think they will do this? Maybe but not without a fight first.

    Jim
     
  16. jay etheredge

    jay etheredge New Member

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    I work on Flora flatbeds. From my experience, often finding the issue you have to change things out. Someone has to pay for that, you can't use something to get to the bottom of the issue then take it out and sell it to someone else. Its part of the diagnosis process, and unfortunately, techs can't just carry used parts around to do testing.(If they did, the price it would cost to get any repairs wouldn't be worth it) That said, as a technician thats broken many things growing up tinkering, like my panasonic radio, and schwinn 5 speed bicycle, hopefully by the time you are grown up, you are careful and know how to disconnect, re-connect parts without breaking them.
    Before throwing a guy under the bus, I would have to know how tough it is to plug and unplug the parts in question. Rolands seem to be very small, not sure how easy it is to swap out the parts.
    Sorry for your pain, Fixing printers isn't an exact science, at least you are up and running again.
     
  17. redprint

    redprint Member

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    Hi Fella, thanks for your reply. I understand it isn't an exact science. But changing the head did not require taking the ribbon cable off the board, they only removed it to view the ink lines that ran under it. The ribbon cable is approximately 2" wide and has some mighty small pins in it in which were bent either putting the cable back on, or taking it off. There was no reason to disconnect the cable other than to view the ink lines. By reconnecting the cable and having a couple pins crossed it blew out the next board plus all the fuses. Now after that happened, is when the diagnosis process started. I understand what you said, but the head was replaced already and all they were doing was looking to see if there was ink in the lines in which were covered by the ribbon cables. The unhooking of the ribbon cables and reconnecting is the reason the board went out. My printer worked fine except for dripping in the head, that is why I told them it was the dampener, in which they said it was the head and then they ended up only changing the dampener anyway. Along with the board and the fuses that blew out twice. That doesn't require disconnecting the cable ribbon to that circuit board. That is negligence. No other way around it.
     
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  18. Bruce Mello

    Bruce Mello Member

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    Which dealer did you buy the Roland from? If they don’t have good service, you need to switch who you buy from.
     
  19. jay etheredge

    jay etheredge New Member

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    I don't know much about Rolands. I'm not excusing or accusing the tech that worked on your printer, just giving you another perspective. I solve a lot of problems being the "dumbest guy in the room" by just taking a step back and trying to look at different logic. Your view is pretty logical. I will say this, I have fixed serious issues by just disconecting cables and re-connecting them. (like 3 or 4 times) I once had an issue where I did just that, reconnected ribbon cables, (2 times) I was at the SGIA show, a factory engineer walks up and I tell him the issue and he tells me "disconnect and reconnect the ribbon cables". At this point, I'm very frustraited and tell him I did and that's not the problem. He proceeds to repeat the process... Guess what? It worked. It didn't jibe with any logic I attained over my 54 years on this planet, but it fixed the issue and don't worry, I have since helped him fix issues he argued with me about. :) (many things)
     
  20. ikarasu

    ikarasu Very Active Member

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    Our flatbed printer doesn't print perfectly square. The tech says it's the alignment bar... That they bend over time because people jam wood into them all the time.and they eventually flex.

    Now.... We only use it to print on coro, so we found it hard to believe. We took it out ourselves... Used a laser to.checj if it was straight... Fabricated a nee makeshift one to test. And it didn't fix the issue at all.

    We reported our findings to him, asked what would have happened if we paid the $3500 for the new bar and installation and it didn't fix nothing.. And he said we'd have a shiny new bar and they'd move onto the next cause.

    We weren't happy.... But it's just how it is. Mechanics, techs, repair people generally take.the shotgun approach. This was from one of the best techs we've ever had, never let us down before and usually figures stuff out the first try.


    It's a bit of a different situation.. If he broke something during the course of..examining our machine, they'd be liable.

    If he said we need to replace xx. Usually when replacing.it we also need to replace xxx because it gets damaged in the process...well try our best not to, but expect it to be on the bill. We'd understand.


    What your story sounds like is if we were wrapping a vehicle, and the new guy started to.trim with an exacto putting cuts all in the guys paint. We wouldn't say too bad so sad... It'd suck but wed be on the hook to pay for a brand new paint job. Escalate it to a higher up, bring it to small claims... Lots of..ways to deal with the situation if it's worth it. But no, you shouldn't be the one who pays for the accidental damage.
     
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