• I want to thank all the members that have upgraded your accounts. I truly appreciate your support of the site monetarily. Supporting the site keeps this site up and running as a lot of work daily goes on behind the scenes. Click to Support Signs101 ...

Why I hate Lowballers

WildWestDesigns

WildWestDesigns

Active Member
Techman said:
Humans have the same mindset in every corner of the planet. We all want to pay the lowest price for everything.
Click to expand...


Not exactly everywhere. I know quite a few people that don't shop around, that go to place and that's it. They assign a higher value to everything else that goes into the purchase compared to the price that they are getting. Some don't care and fork it over.

That's an assumption that makes for nice economic models, but there are always the strange folks that skew it from being a perfect model.
 
TyrantDesigner

TyrantDesigner

Art! Hot and fresh.
Maybe it is just me, but if all he is doing is just solvent printing on white and slapping on a magnetic base ... I would probably be advertising 12x24's for $59 as well, add in a basic $10 layout fee if they don't have the art ready to go, and try to sell on some custom design services (logo or what not) ... I can easily double or triple that price.

Those also aren't low baller prices, as that sort of work I've seen go for $25 bucks in this area. Either way, if I had a solvent printer in the shop I would probably be advertising stuff around that price to keep the printer from bleeding ink and print heads into a garbage can. ... and in the end will get the upsells easily (laminate, design services, etc.)
 
Techman

Techman

New Member
That's an assumption that makes for nice economic models, but there are always the strange folks that skew it from being a perfect model.
Click to expand...

There is always the "what if" element.
Thinking about a "what if" is a waste of time.
Build a model. Follow the model and deal with the what if element when it comes along. A good model works very well. If it didn't then no one would be earning 10 times what they did before implementing a properly designed model.
 
WildWestDesigns

WildWestDesigns

Active Member
Techman said:
There is always the "what if" element.
Thinking about a "what if" is a waste of time.
Build a model. Follow the model and deal with the what if element when it comes along. A good model works very well. If it didn't then no one would be earning 10 times what they did before implementing a properly designed model.
Click to expand...


Only bad thing with dealing with it when it comes along. It might actually be too late to switch your MO accordingly. Depending on how long it takes you to "re-tool" everything. I always believe in having contingency plans and to have certain thresholds that if reached trigger me to do certain things.

Models are nice to do and to have, but you have to remember that they are just theory. If there are certain "what if" that just stare at me in the face, then I make sure I have a backup plan.

In that regard, I wouldn't say what ifs are a waste of time if planned for properly. Now, you won't be able to foresee everything, but trying to come up with the ones that just right in your face, I wouldn't think of it as a waste of time.
 
Techman

Techman

New Member
The plan is,,
If the "what if" does not fit the plan they are self disqualified.

Walk into mc D's and ask for a breakfast platter at 2 PM..
 
Gino

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Addie……

If you’re only at it 3 years and this guy has taken away a percentage of your business, but he was here long before you opened your doors…. isn’t it the other way around ?? Seems more like you’ve been stepping on his toes and trying to do business his way and you can’t really do it, let alone keep up with him. Whether he re-organized under some chapter… or is just re-inventing his business…. why are you trying to compete with him, when you have to sub out the work he does in-house ??

Here’s a new approach… why not set yourself apart from him and sell something different…. or advertise other items and maybe you won’t have to compete with him.

Please, if you don’t listen to anything else I’ve ever said to you in any way, shape or form, try this on for size…. stop modeling yourself or comparing your setup to others here on the forum…. especially me/mine. We are not anything alike. I make 95% of my stuff in-house. I could send you to the poor house if you were my competition. So could many others. You’re a Broker. You know I don’t like brokers, but why pretend to be a sign shop when you can’t compete on any level from in-house anything to design to prices ?? You’re only kidding yourself trying to hide the fact from your customers you in fact don’t make much of anything and send out for almost everything.

Some questins for you… seriously.


  • Are you ashamed of what you do, that you can’t level with your customers ??
  • Do you think you can really sub out and get good prices and compete with the guy down the street ??
  • Have you ever tried to find a few good items and knock the living snot out of your competition by excelling in something and not worrying about every little sale that comes down the pike ??
  • You can’t get them all.
  • If you did, your prices are too low. You say your prices are not lowballing, but in so many of your threads… you’re always complaining how you lost another one or someone or something got in your way.


Why not take a week or so and write up a Pros & Cons list and make an honest to goodness business and life assessment of what you’ve accomplished in the last three years under your present name and the other years under whatever name you used to use and see where your strong points are and what you are weak in. You need to be brutally honest with yourself and not make excuses or get side-tracked. Once you have strengths and weaknesses figured out, you can proceed o the next level and that is now setting your sights/goal on something physically obtainable. Maybe, you’d find out brokering isn’t your cup a tea. It doesn’t seem it to me, but what do I know ??
 
qmr55

qmr55

New Member
Techman said:
Hey that just about matches the pricing on one of my fliers from about 9 years ago.
If you see this flier and know what the plan is one will know what is actually going on.
There is an enlightened process.

The deal is...Get the phone call and upsell. UPSELL is the key.

The enlightened process is...

Phone call,,, that leads to an.
appointment,,, which leads to the,,,
profile,,,, the clients needs so you can fill those needs..so you can
praise,,,, your ability to find and meet his needs which allows you to successfully
prompt,,,, for the higher average sale ticket..

Selling decals at an average of $25 bux each is fine. But take that same sale contact and increase the average ticket price to $100 gets you the way to double your income with the same amount of work.

Using this method... I just made a sale where the client complained about the price of the cheap deal he wanted. But then happily agreed to pay 7 times his original mindset....

Let see here.. 84 bux lead in,,, follow the plan,, led to a 560. bux sale... yes that's about right.. 7 times his original idea...

All of this leads to a total customer value of about 900-1200 bux a year..
That is the way to work it. Get an average client. Meet his needs, sell him more products over the year and increase his customer value to about a grand a year.
200 clients like that means 200 grand a year.

Then fill in the spare time with the whale accounts and make a whole lot of cash.
Click to expand...

Great post! :U Rock:
 
L

Locals Find!

New Member
Techman said:
I posted to show you what he is doing. If you think his only ideas was to sell cheap then you lost it all. Actually you never had it..

In any reasonable bizz plan its not low balling at all. The plan is to make the phone ring to make a conversation to build a rapport. Nothing else. Phone call leads to an appointment. That leads to the sale.. The first part of the plan (low advertised price) has nothing to do with selling any thing..

Apparently it is working well for him. You lost 15 grand of work to him.. See, I rest my case. Watch as I put the trophy on the shelf.
Click to expand...

I could see your view if they were targeting an industry other than Real Estate. Real Estate agents buy on price alone. They don't get upsold easily if ever.

TyrantDesigner said:
Maybe it is just me, but if all he is doing is just solvent printing on white and slapping on a magnetic base ... I would probably be advertising 12x24's for $59 as well, add in a basic $10 layout fee if they don't have the art ready to go, and try to sell on some custom design services (logo or what not) ... I can easily double or triple that price.

Those also aren't low baller prices, as that sort of work I've seen go for $25 bucks in this area. Either way, if I had a solvent printer in the shop I would probably be advertising stuff around that price to keep the printer from bleeding ink and print heads into a garbage can. ... and in the end will get the upsells easily (laminate, design services, etc.)
Click to expand...

I am not concerned so much about the magnets I don't like what he is doing with the Real Estate Signs and the 4x4s.
 
L

Locals Find!

New Member
Gino said:
Addie……

If you’re only at it 3 years and this guy has taken away a percentage of your business, but he was here long before you opened your doors…. isn’t it the other way around ?? Seems more like you’ve been stepping on his toes and trying to do business his way and you can’t really do it, let alone keep up with him. Whether he re-organized under some chapter… or is just re-inventing his business…. why are you trying to compete with him, when you have to sub out the work he does in-house ??

Here’s a new approach… why not set yourself apart from him and sell something different…. or advertise other items and maybe you won’t have to compete with him.

Please, if you don’t listen to anything else I’ve ever said to you in any way, shape or form, try this on for size…. stop modeling yourself or comparing your setup to others here on the forum…. especially me/mine. We are not anything alike. I make 95% of my stuff in-house. I could send you to the poor house if you were my competition. So could many others. You’re a Broker. You know I don’t like brokers, but why pretend to be a sign shop when you can’t compete on any level from in-house anything to design to prices ?? You’re only kidding yourself trying to hide the fact from your customers you in fact don’t make much of anything and send out for almost everything.

Some questins for you… seriously.


  • Are you ashamed of what you do, that you can’t level with your customers ??
  • Do you think you can really sub out and get good prices and compete with the guy down the street ??
  • Have you ever tried to find a few good items and knock the living snot out of your competition by excelling in something and not worrying about every little sale that comes down the pike ??
  • You can’t get them all.
  • If you did, your prices are too low. You say your prices are not lowballing, but in so many of your threads… you’re always complaining how you lost another one or someone or something got in your way.


Why not take a week or so and write up a Pros & Cons list and make an honest to goodness business and life assessment of what you’ve accomplished in the last three years under your present name and the other years under whatever name you used to use and see where your strong points are and what you are weak in. You need to be brutally honest with yourself and not make excuses or get side-tracked. Once you have strengths and weaknesses figured out, you can proceed o the next level and that is now setting your sights/goal on something physically obtainable. Maybe, you’d find out brokering isn’t your cup a tea. It doesn’t seem it to me, but what do I know ??
Click to expand...

Gino, my point is not about who is taking whose work. I am upset because, I have proven countless times you can get more money for these products. People will gladly pay more. I want them to charge more. Take the work from me because, your better. Whether its your more likeable, a better sales person, a better artist. Anything but just taking sales on price alone. Making everyone who is pricing fairly look like greedy aholes out to screw everyone.

As a Broker I can blow their socks off. I know what my overhead is down to the penny. I could lowball the crap out of those same products and still pay my bills. Hell, maybe that is what I should do. I will just lower the prices and provide my same quality till they have no choice but, to screw themselves. Maybe I should just Mosh them out of business. (sarcasm)
 
Gino

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Adtechia said:
Gino, my point is not about who is taking whose work. I am upset because, I have proven countless times you can get more money for these products. People will gladly pay more. I want them to charge more. Take the work from me because, your better. Whether its your more likeable, a better sales person, a better artist. Anything but just taking sales on price alone. Making everyone who is pricing fairly look like greedy aholes out to screw everyone.

As a Broker I can blow their socks off. I know what my overhead is down to the penny. I could lowball the crap out of those same products and still pay my bills. Hell, maybe that is what I should do. I will just lower the prices and provide my same quality till they have no choice but, to screw themselves. Maybe I should just Mosh them out of business. (sarcasm)
Click to expand...


Now wait a minute, Addie. You started out by saying these guys have been around for 8 years and taking business away from you to the tune of $15,000, not chump change to anyone. You make mention of a lot of things, but primarily they are taking business away. Now you go on to say it's they are underselling you and no one recognizes your better quality signs.

No offense, but you really have never displayed a better quality anything.

Alright, let's get away from that one or you'll get upset.

You're now talking about people should be buying quality over price alone. Aren't you the same guy who just a few short days ago was [to use your verbiage] bragging about how much money you save by shopping at the cheap-O store for all of your family's needs ?? You don't need quality or name brands... it's all about saving a buck wherever you can to make ends meet..... to put food on the table ??

So, it's Okay for you to use this practice, but not the clients you lose to someone making as good a product as you, but not making the profit you want or need ??

So, do you mind explaining or is this none of my business. If this offends you, I'm sorry. I'm not attacking the person known as Addie, but expressing my thoughts based on your input on the matter, thus far.
 
HulkSmash

HulkSmash

New Member
Gino said:
Now wait a minute, Addie. You started out by saying these guys have been around for 8 years and taking business away from you to the tune of $15,000, not chump change to anyone. You make mention of a lot of things, but primarily they are taking business away. Now you go on to say it's they are underselling you and no one recognizes your better quality signs.

No offense, but you really have never displayed a better quality anything.

Alright, let's get away from that one or you'll get upset.

You're now talking about people should be buying quality over price alone. Aren't you the same guy who just a few short days ago was [to use your verbiage] bragging about how much money you save by shopping at the cheap-O store for all of your family's needs ?? You don't need quality or name brands... it's all about saving a buck wherever you can to make ends meet..... to put food on the table ??

So, it's Okay for you to use this practice, but not the clients you lose to someone making as good a product as you, but not making the profit you want or need ??

So, do you mind explaining or is this none of my business. If this offends you, I'm sorry. I'm not attacking the person known as Addie, but expressing my thoughts based on your input on the matter, thus far.
Click to expand...

Damn Gino. You are good.

Always finding the loop hole.

Yeah addie explain yourself. :guido:
 
L

Locals Find!

New Member
WildWestDesigns said:
Unless my math is off, that's only 2 yrs. I would wait another six months before saying going on your 3rd.
Click to expand...

Starting my 3rd year? I don't know its all semantics. I been around 2 full years. This will be my 3rd year as Adtechia if I make it through. There is that clearer?

Gino, I am trying to type a response to your comment. I am tired and haven't quite got the wording right yet where it actually is a complete thought I will get back to your question ASAP.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top