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Why so much hate??

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FireSprint.com

Trade Only Screen & Digital Sign Printing
Talentless??? Hell no. Most brokers we deal with are VERY talented. Maybe they don't know how to design or produce a sign, but they are talented in listening to their customers and giving them what they want.

I have a hell of alot of respect for brokers. It's all about focus. You'll never convince me that someone who is incredibly talented at design or production is equally as talented at customer focus. That's why so many large accounts (from Merritt's list and all around) use brokers. They are a liaison between the customer, and the production guys that smell too much UV Ink all day like us!
 

willypete

New Member
brokers are every where from your HMO to the majority of construction contractors . They do provide a service that works for a lot of people . i have a friend that started a "roofing company" but has never roofed a house in his life . he is nothing more than a middle man soaking up money a industry that could have been saved by the customer or spent bettering the life of the people doing the job . If i need a service of any kind i would never use a broker i would make my own deals . and if a broker asked me to bid on a job he would get a honest bid that anyone else would get . If it worked out to being a large amount of work then yes there would be a price break but no more than anyone else off the street that requested the same amount of work .
i deal with brokers often enough to know they cost customers more money in the end (most of the time) anyway . but the customer has to make the choice if its right for them .
i am in the service industry and i dont produce anything so my understanding may be limited .

willypete
 

willypete

New Member
lol a sign broker ..
claims they can do so much and what it should say is we can call the same company you can and request the same service you need and make some money off you calling us first .. they have no more ability to do the work than there customers do there website should mention all the real sign companies that produce and the site should be no more than a phone directory .
 

Rick

Certified Enneadecagon Designer
I thought sign makers hated architects, designers, interior designers, color consultants, feng shui specialists, newbie sign makers and each other more than brokers.
 

John L

New Member
Ive made pretty good money from working with agencies, brokers not so much. I just sell for the same price anyway, if they can make money.. right on. I'd never be upset at someone selling my stuff for more.. have at it.
 

Locals Find!

New Member
brokers are every where from your HMO to the majority of construction contractors . They do provide a service that works for a lot of people . i have a friend that started a "roofing company" but has never roofed a house in his life . he is nothing more than a middle man soaking up money a industry that could have been saved by the customer or spent bettering the life of the people doing the job . If i need a service of any kind i would never use a broker i would make my own deals . and if a broker asked me to bid on a job he would get a honest bid that anyone else would get . If it worked out to being a large amount of work then yes there would be a price break but no more than anyone else off the street that requested the same amount of work .
i deal with brokers often enough to know they cost customers more money in the end (most of the time) anyway . but the customer has to make the choice if its right for them .
i am in the service industry and i dont produce anything so my understanding may be limited .

willypete

Willy your Friend you use as an example of a Broker is called a Contractor. Most states require they pass a test to become contractors. So, they have to express some basic knowledge of what they are doing. Brokers are no different than contractors with the exception of licensing and training (most sign shops aren't required to have extensive licensing/training for making most signs either) They plan out a job for a client they handle all the details of making sure all the pieces of the puzzle fit together at the right price. Yes, brokers & contractors make money doing this. However, we are not parasites.

The average consumer doesn't know squat about all the different processes that go into making the finished product(s). A good Broker/Contractor knows about all the aspects of the business. They may not know everything but, they know enough to get the job done right and know who can get the job done right. Clients go to brokers because, they don't want to deal with 17 different vendors to get a job done. They want to limit the number of people they have to deal with. I personally land accounts that most sign shops/print shops would have to hire extra staff to handle, because I have the ability to give them my attention and not have to worry about equipment failures, etc....

Like others have mentioned their are plenty of trade only businesses out their that would rather put their focus on making the best possible products and not worry about having to deal with 1,000s of different personalities to get jobs. Brokers give them an independent sales staff that hands over ready to produce jobs without all the associated liability. If a broker screws up the job its on the broker to make it right with the client. The shop that made the job doesn't take on that responsibility.

Not all Brokers shop on price alone, good brokers shop for that very elusive combination of speed, quality, price & good customer service. I personally am very loyal to my chosen vendors. My go to list is very lean and mean. I only do business with the Best. Those who can meet all 4 points listed above. I don't want to be shopping around constantly looking to save a nickel yet lose a $1 because of lousy product.

The Broker & Manufacturer relationship isn't right for everyone or every business. The hate and loathing of ALL BROKERS is plain ordinary Bigotry when, personal opinion of individuals is put aside. (Me and Gino for example he just plain dislikes me for personal reasons not that I am a Broker.)
 

OldPaint

New Member
as archie would say. OH GEEZZZZZZZ ADIE.........BIGOTRY???? far from that....as merritt says they do big business with brokers....BUT THOSE are not the 90% of BROKERS...
as for spray paint on bark, what the hell is that? and clay pots....welllll again, people with no artistic ability.......have no clue.........
 

willypete

New Member
If they want to deal with only one company then they should call a sign company that has to the ability to do the job by calling a broker they have already given up on that . i can not begin to count the times that i have shown up to jobs where the customer was like where is john doe who was working on this project this is not what i wanted and you were supposed to be here last week john didnt mention that the city inspector would be here today also and .. and then i have to tell the customer that the city inspector said that the sign could not go up because the company that the broker used had no ideal of the city required more than what the NEC book does .
so customer calls john and john says ill take care of it . which really means is he will call me and ill take care of it because poor john has no ability to get the signs up to code and most likely no knowledge of how to do it ... so ill talk with john and let him know that this goes further than what we agreed on and it will cost him more if i was to fix it myself. and because i have way more invested into the job than just phone calls and emails ill do what it takes to get it done while the broker gets some bogus glory for being a problem solver ..

by the way i do not hate anyone and i like the brokers i have met but i really do not think they have anything to offer a customer that a little time and searching for the right sign company wouldnt give them .
 
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Locals Find!

New Member
If they want to deal with only one company then they should call a sign company that has to the ability to do the job by calling a broker they have already given up on that . i can not begin to count the times that i have shown up to jobs where the customer was like where is john doe who was working on this project this is not what i wanted and you were supposed to be here last week john didnt mention that the city inspector would be here today also and .. and then i have to tell the customer that the city inspector said that the sign could not go up because the company that the broker used had no ideal of the city required more than what the NEC book does .
so customer calls john and john says ill take care of it . which really means is he will call me and ill take care of it because poor john has no ability to get the signs up to code and most likely no knowledge of how to do it ... so ill talk with john and let him know that this goes further than what we agreed on and it will cost him more if i was to fix it myself. and because i have way more invested into the job than just phone calls and emails ill do what it takes to get it done while the broker gets some bogus glory for being a problem solver ..

by the way i do not hate anyone and i like the brokers i have met but i really do not think they have anything to offer a customer that a little time and searching for the right sign company wouldnt give them .

If the term Broker is defined only as Sign Brokers and doesn't include all the other products companies like mine offer. I could very well see your frustration and point of view. With so called Brokers.

Maybe the S101 membership could more clearly define the difference between the different business models. To make it clearer for everyone involved.

What do you call a company that is more than a Sign Broker, & less than an Ad Agency? (No T.V., Radio, & traditional print ads i.e. newspapers & magazines but, who offers graphics, screenprinting, signs, embroidery, printing, websites, & promotional products etc...)
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Willy your Friend you use as an example of a Broker is called a Contractor. Most states require they pass a test to become contractors. So, they have to express some basic knowledge of what they are doing. Brokers are no different than contractors with the exception of licensing and training (most sign shops aren't required to have extensive licensing/training for making most signs either) They plan out a job for a client they handle all the details of making sure all the pieces of the puzzle fit together at the right price. Yes, brokers & contractors make money doing this. However, we are not parasites.

The average consumer doesn't know squat about all the different processes that go into making the finished product(s). A good Broker/Contractor knows about all the aspects of the business. They may not know everything but, they know enough to get the job done right and know who can get the job done right. Clients go to brokers because, they don't want to deal with 17 different vendors to get a job done. They want to limit the number of people they have to deal with. I personally land accounts that most sign shops/print shops would have to hire extra staff to handle, because I have the ability to give them my attention and not have to worry about equipment failures, etc....

Like others have mentioned their are plenty of trade only businesses out their that would rather put their focus on making the best possible products and not worry about having to deal with 1,000s of different personalities to get jobs. Brokers give them an independent sales staff that hands over ready to produce jobs without all the associated liability. If a broker screws up the job its on the broker to make it right with the client. The shop that made the job doesn't take on that responsibility.

Not all Brokers shop on price alone, good brokers shop for that very elusive combination of speed, quality, price & good customer service. I personally am very loyal to my chosen vendors. My go to list is very lean and mean. I only do business with the Best. Those who can meet all 4 points listed above. I don't want to be shopping around constantly looking to save a nickel yet lose a $1 because of lousy product.

The Broker & Manufacturer relationship isn't right for everyone or every business. The hate and loathing of ALL BROKERS is plain ordinary Bigotry when, personal opinion of individuals is put aside. (Me and Gino for example he just plain dislikes me for personal reasons not that I am a Broker.)


Addie...... you can stop putting words in my mouth anytime, like now.

What Mike and some others wrote are the kind of businesses which are sometimes referred to as brokers is the same type WE deal with for many customers. We don't have near the extent of high end customers, but it's of the same nature. These agencies are getting far more than yard signs and bumper stickers for their clients. They are indeed talented as someone else had put it, but it is their job description. They are truly upfront with their clients who know they are jobbing these projects out, unlike someone like you who pretends to be the manufacturer.

Like I've said so many times, Addie.... you spew this utter nonsense in hopes that someone might just believe you or listen to you for a change. How many times do I have to say I don't like you for many reasons, which I wouldn't go into except for the fact, you told still yet another lie about me.
You have lied about so many details about your background, the integrity [or lack of] your website, the stolen images and copyright infringements, non-payment of your vendors, your ability.... but most of all; your lies and mis-information to unknowing people on this sight that don't know any better and believe your foolish wisdom. You've been caught in so many untruths and schemes it ain't even funny.

For someone as yourself to keep coming back when it's clearly obvious to anyone what you're all about, just says volumes for your mind-power. I don't care if a 'broker' is working out of the back seat of his car or from his smartphone... as long as he/she is honest with the client and the vendor.

  • You, on the other hand, have told me through an e-mail request, that you wanted prices and then denied it and said your worm did it.
  • You have told me you wouldn't be caught dead using our services.
  • You told me you trust me to the fullest.
  • You have told me, you wouldn't trust me for anything.
  • You have repeatedly e-mailed me to wholesale to you.
  • You have said, no one wants to sell to you anymore.
  • You have said you've exhausted just about all of your vendors.
  • You told me your vendors can't service you properly.
  • You also told me these same vendors are charging you too much.
  • You have tried everything in the book, but I won't be party to the likes of a liar like you.
You have conducted yourself like a liar and a cheat on the site and behind the scenes and quite frankly.... I think it's sad. However, I have to consider the source.

So, in all fairness, I don't like you for almost all reasons which aren't personal, but business-related in just about every facet of the way you do business.
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
If the term Broker is defined only as Sign Brokers and doesn't include all the other products companies like mine offer. I could very well see your frustration and point of view. With so called Brokers.

Maybe the S101 membership could more clearly define the difference between the different business models. To make it clearer for everyone involved.

What do you call a company that is more than a Sign Broker, & less than an Ad Agency? (No T.V., Radio, & traditional print ads i.e. newspapers & magazines but, who offers graphics, screenprinting, signs, embroidery, printing, websites, & promotional products etc...)


You're a scab in my book. 'Broker' is just a nice term you stole from the real sign brokers.
 
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