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Why the limited gamut?
- Thread starter Colin
- Start date
bob
It's better to have two hands than one glove.
You'd be wrong, by a long shot.
That would depend very much on whether or not you regard what comes out of the printer as the truth or what appears on a monitor to be the truth. If the latter then I agree, bad advice. If the former then it's been working flawlessly for me on a myriad of media over the last 9 years or so.
The biggest problems I had when first venturing forth into large format printing was not completely understanding that what comes out of the printer is the truth. Thing was, I understood it well enough, I never set up the work to accommodate it. Once I figured all that out, things became relatively simple and straightforward.
Micro differences for the most part.
If you know what your printer is going to produce with profile X on media Y then there's little need for all of the other minutiae unless that sort of thing gets you off. If you really think that cranking one of your heaters a few degrees one way or the other is going to make everything all right you're kidding yourself.
The biggest factor in what comes out of the printer is the white point of the media. Even that isn't all that much until you start printing on media that most definitely is not white. Like silver and/or other light colored vinyl.
I've printed my trusty Pantone chart using the same profile on two media that were both white but were two visibly different whites and resultant charts on each media were sufficiently the same to call it a draw.
The point is that if you adapt your work to what your printer does in given circumstances your life becomes far simpler than if you insist on your printer adapting itself to your work. It's somewhat like removing a light bulb by turning the room or merely turning the bulb.
This notion generally causes color theory, calibration, and profiling aficionados to become apoplectic which, being an iconoclast, in and of itself is not a bad thing. Anything which discomforts the smug is to be cherished.
JoshLoring
New Member
bob said:
You answered your own question right here Bob.
With the right profiles, what you see is what you get. For you to say those that obcess over over monitor to print calibration is ludicrous, is only admitting that you couldn't achieve it and using 2 profiles is your means of balance to your own madness.
I'm going almost 7 years strong with 100% monitor to print consistency, and print longevity. Oh- and I don't obcess over monitor to print calibration, I just know what I'm doing.
JoshLoring
New Member
bob said:
Bob- I've solved your print to monitor problem!
Your using a Mutoh Valuejet printer...
I would have given up too. Now I understand your inner pain and frustrations about only needing 2 profiles. It's like I'm seeing a whole new side of you. My apologies.
JoshLoring
New Member
Interesting
Color Consistency with Large Format Printers
Color Consistency with Large Format Printers
Colin
New Member
Ok, after much more adjustments & testing, I've come to what I feel is the best B&W photo settings so far. Here's the recipe:
Color photo in Photoshop, turned to B&W using the following method:
Crop to desired size.
Layer > New Adjustment Layer > Gradient Map > Black & White.
Layer > Flatten Image.
Image > Image Size > leave all settings, but make sure one of the three possible "BiCubic" options at the bottom are selected.
Save as highest possible quality level (12). Baseline Standard.
In Roland VersaWorks:
Media type I was using: Rite Media Matte Paper.
High Quality (1440x720)
Interpolation: BiCubic
Color Management Preset: Sign & Display >
Properties: Simulation Target Profiles:
RGB(R): Roland_SignRGB.icc
CMYK(C): Roland_SignCMYK.icc
Matching Method: Perceptual
Preserve Primary Colors: Checked "On"
Color Management tab: C-2 M-2 Y-2 K+2
While this results in a B&W image which is slightly on the green side, it's the best I've got so far without noodling with profiles. The only other results I was getting were a little too warm/brownish.
Turning the photo to Grayscale in PS did not work no matter what myriad settings I tried after that. They were always far too brownish and grainy.
Color photo in Photoshop, turned to B&W using the following method:
Crop to desired size.
Layer > New Adjustment Layer > Gradient Map > Black & White.
Layer > Flatten Image.
Image > Image Size > leave all settings, but make sure one of the three possible "BiCubic" options at the bottom are selected.
Save as highest possible quality level (12). Baseline Standard.
In Roland VersaWorks:
Media type I was using: Rite Media Matte Paper.
High Quality (1440x720)
Interpolation: BiCubic
Color Management Preset: Sign & Display >
Properties: Simulation Target Profiles:
RGB(R): Roland_SignRGB.icc
CMYK(C): Roland_SignCMYK.icc
Matching Method: Perceptual
Preserve Primary Colors: Checked "On"
Color Management tab: C-2 M-2 Y-2 K+2
While this results in a B&W image which is slightly on the green side, it's the best I've got so far without noodling with profiles. The only other results I was getting were a little too warm/brownish.
Turning the photo to Grayscale in PS did not work no matter what myriad settings I tried after that. They were always far too brownish and grainy.
JoshLoring
New Member
Colin- don't use gradient maps for B&W
Lookup- 1: channel mixer for B&W images. It's a much better way
Also- if your printing green.. Image adjust > color balance > add a little blue
Lookup- 1: channel mixer for B&W images. It's a much better way
Also- if your printing green.. Image adjust > color balance > add a little blue
Colin
New Member
Why? (I've always found that I get the best results that way).
Does it present problems for printing?
JoshLoring
New Member
Colin said:
It's what it is.. A gradient map- black to white. If you want b&w conversion you won't want to use a gradient map because depending on the gradient- your top colors might not get the same part of the gradient as the bottom of the image.
Channel mixer is a much better way.
Colin
New Member
Might the Channel Mixer method give me wildly different results than Gradient Map when printing on my Roland SPi? I'll give it a try, but boy I really have gone through a fair bit of media & ink in the last few days, and don't want to try all those possible setting combinations all over again.
Colin
New Member
Josh: I did some more test prints yesterday (with one of the same photos I've been test-printing) but using the channel mixer method, and there was absolutely no difference in the tones (pink/green etc) than I was getting with the gradient map B&Ws. But, you may be correct that the CM method is a better way of creating a B&W, as it gives more control. I guess it's on to profiles now, but boy I'm in the dark on that. (No pun intended).
There's another method I sometimes use (if the photo lends itself to it), and that is to use a plug-in filter called "HiSpot" by Fotomatic. It's wild.
*This free plug-in doesn't work on 64 bit PS, just 32.
There's another method I sometimes use (if the photo lends itself to it), and that is to use a plug-in filter called "HiSpot" by Fotomatic. It's wild.
*This free plug-in doesn't work on 64 bit PS, just 32.
Terremoto
New Member
Colin,
You would be wise to pay attention to what Josh is saying and ignore what Bob is saying.
Bob makes it abundantly clear that he doesn't understand color management no matter how hard he wrangles and mangles the English language in a concerted (if not pathetically comical) effort to press his point.
It goes without saying that you should get a handle on your particular equipment but to really make it do it's thing a good understanding of color management and an ICC compliant workflow is absolutely paramount.
Dan
You would be wise to pay attention to what Josh is saying and ignore what Bob is saying.
Bob makes it abundantly clear that he doesn't understand color management no matter how hard he wrangles and mangles the English language in a concerted (if not pathetically comical) effort to press his point.
It goes without saying that you should get a handle on your particular equipment but to really make it do it's thing a good understanding of color management and an ICC compliant workflow is absolutely paramount.
Dan