Wind load on wall mount channel letters???

[FatCat]

Working on a set of non-lit channel letters and everything has been approved thru local zoning, BUT now they kicked this over to their building dept who are requesting wind load calculations on the channel letters. WTF!?!?

While I'm sure there is such thing to a minor degree, wouldn't that have to be calculated by an engineer? I've had to get engineer drawings on many signs over the years, but this just seems ridiculous to me. the letters are roughly 10-18" tall (depending on lower case or caps) with 4" returns, and will be mounted about 15 feet up on a brick wall....all this permitting stuff is just getting out of hand in my opinion...

Just wanted to vent...sorry.

 

[Z SIGNS]

I feel your pain. We are putting up some 12" tall by 1/2" thick acrylic building numbers on a warehouse wall. town wants sealed drawings.

 

[Billct2]

Yup, had one town that wanted an engineer stamped drawing with wind load for a 2'x12' pan sign on a wall

 

[letterman7]

Rookies. I just had to get sealed drawings for a flat wall mount, 6mm ACM 4' x 10..... wind load, attachments, the whole 9..

 

[ams]

You can do your own ASCE 7 wind and snow loads. Look it up on google. Doesn't take an engineer to do.

 

[bannertime]

Rookies. I just had to get sealed drawings for a flat wall mount, 6mm ACM 4' x 10..... wind load, attachments, the whole 9..

oof. Recently had a city request side view drawings of a 3mm sign bolted into a concrete wall. Told them I could give it to them over they phone and all they had to do was draw a rectangle, color it in and then a much thinner rectangle that is butt up against one side of the first rectangle. Voilà!

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

oof. Recently had a city request side view drawings of a 3mm sign bolted into a concrete wall. Told them I could give it to them over they phone and all they had to do was draw a rectangle, color it in and then a much thinner rectangle that is butt up against one side of the first rectangle. Voilà!

 

[Gino]

You're gonna have more shear weight load from pigeon guano than wind. Don't forget the spikes on the top.

Sealed drawings are a necessity on just about anything, these days. We're doing some signs on a building, which are replacing some existing 6/4" wooden signs with 6mm ACM and they wanna know the same stuff. I asked the codes lady, what do the old specs say about the signs that are up there, now ?? CRICKETS................ Yeah, there are no records, huh ?? They're making the customers pay for specs which the state is making mandatory and the municipalities are passing the buck. ​

 

[2B]

Had a town kick back a submittal because we did not list the head type (Torx in this case) being used on the screws for the installation frame.

 

[ams]

Had a town kick back a submittal because we did not list the head type (Torx in this case) being used on the screws for the installation frame.

Which has zero to do with ASCE or the structure of the sign/frame in any way.

 

[signage]

You can do your own ASCE 7 wind and snow loads. Look it up on google. Doesn't take an engineer to do.

But how do you get the stamp?

 

[ams]

But how do you get the stamp?

Some cities and counties just need the information. They assume engineers are the only ones who know how to calculate it.
However if they insist on it being sealed, having all your information in place will save you a ton on the seal, they do a quick review and seal it. Rather than spending the time doing all the research themselves.

 

[dasigndr]

we deal with this on a an almost daily bases in Ontario Canada also. It is all about liability BS. I have lost countless jobs in the last 2 years due to ridiculous "money grabbing" laws. If a client here wants a simple 3mm thick aluminum composite sign panel, 18" X 24" screwed to wall the permits required are approx $1200. Needless to say we are on a downward spiral as far as sign manufacturing goes. Only the already strong, larger companies will be able to survive this hence reducing the amount of ma and pa shops and playing right into this "new world" system. IMO

 

[rjssigns]

Wow. I feel fortunate that our town tells us wind load is 30lbs per square foot and to supply anchor data.

 

[Big_Pine]

I feel your pain. We are putting up some 12" tall by 1/2" thick acrylic building numbers on a warehouse wall. town wants sealed drawings.

I feel your pain. We are putting up some 12" tall by 1/2" thick acrylic building numbers on a warehouse wall. town wants sealed drawings.

This is becoming a problem here in south Florida very frustrating Sealed drawings for simple light weight installs. Doe anybody have advice on what to do?

 

[letterman7]

I encourage everyone in the US who is a sign professional to review this: https://codes.iccsafe.org/content/IBC2018/appendix-h-signs?site_type=public

That little tidbit is what is causing so many issues in townships across PA who adopt the ICC codes in their entirety without reading the fine print. As a single person, I've written to the ICC council trying to discuss and change some of the definitions (at least, in my mind) that are completely wrong or have multiple definitions to the description. Case in point: in my township, monument signs are no longer legal (i.e. Peachtree style signs). Why? Because with their internal structure of embedded pipes, they are automatically considered "pole signs" (which is not correct) but the township requires 7' of clearance to the bottom of any "pole sign". Even though the entire structure rests on the ground, if the Peachtree monument isn't physically part of a larger in ground footer (tied in with concrete), it's not considered a ground sign, either. I argued with both ICC and the township about the vagueness of the definitions and that some are clearly wrong, both to no avail since I have absolutely no leverage as a sole proprietor.. despite having 25 years in the business. But.. as a larger sign community, if everyone started leaning on the ICC council to change the verbage, something may happen.. eventually.

 

[Big_Pine]

Yup, had one town that wanted an engineer stamped drawing with wind load for a 2'x12' pan sign on a wall

This is a growing problem that we have not figure out how to combat yet. The last thing the customer wants to hear is they have to pay for stamped drawings as well a new sign.

 

[Big_Pine]

I encourage everyone in the US who is a sign professional to review this: https://codes.iccsafe.org/content/IBC2018/appendix-h-signs?site_type=public

That little tidbit is what is causing so many issues in townships across PA who adopt the ICC codes in their entirety without reading the fine print. As a single person, I've written to the ICC council trying to discuss and change some of the definitions (at least, in my mind) that are completely wrong or have multiple definitions to the description. Case in point: in my township, monument signs are no longer legal (i.e. Peachtree style signs). Why? Because with their internal structure of embedded pipes, they are automatically considered "pole signs" (which is not correct) but the township requires 7' of clearance to the bottom of any "pole sign". Even though the entire structure rests on the ground, if the Peachtree monument isn't physically part of a larger in ground footer (tied in with concrete), it's not considered a ground sign, either. I argued with both ICC and the township about the vagueness of the definitions and that some are clearly wrong, both to no avail since I have absolutely no leverage as a sole proprietor.. despite having 25 years in the business. But.. as a larger sign community, if everyone started leaning on the ICC council to change the verbage, something may happen.. eventually.

I appreciate you posting this!!!

 

[ams]

Perhaps we as sign makers should come together as a community and write our own regulations and see if they will get adopted into code?

 

[Billct2]

The ISA and USSC both do research and supply materials to help write common sense sign codes.
I think the best advocates for code changes are the businesses that are affected in the pocketbook