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Windows 8 developer preview

Mike F

New Member
Anyone checked it out yet? Think I'm gonna download it tonight and set my laptop up to dual-boot it along with 7, kinda curious to see what it's like.

Few links for those that are interested...

Windows 8 Developer Preview ISOs - http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/apps/br229516

How to dual-boot Windows 7 and Windows 8 - http://lifehacker.com/5840387/how-to-dual+boot-windows-7-and-windows-8-side-by-side

Dual-boot at your own risk, and make sure you use Windows Backup to make a copy of your install on a separate hard drive beforehand in case anything goes wrong.
 

choucove

New Member
I've got it loaded on one of my test systems currently. Really, there are a lot of things I don't like. Yes, it's just a developer's preview right now but there are a LOT of things functionally that Microsoft has to fix or it's going to be terrible.

First, the start menu is no more. When you click on Start it loads up the new Metro UI which is specifically designed for touch input only. This means you can't just go to Start -> All Programs to get to your applications anymore, or go to Start -> Control Panel to open that. Pretty much, everything accessed previously by the Start menu takes at least three more steps to access now. Even to shut down the computer you have to hover on the Start menu corner, select Settings, and THEN hit the power button on the left side and select if you want to shut down or restart. Completely pointless.

Next, Windows 8 incorporates the new Metro UI. While this may be a great feature for mobile devices like tablets, its a completely useless function on a desktop computer. So why they force you to have to use it is beyond me. There are several apps accessible from the Start screen (the Metro UI) but I found it completely laughable that NONE of the apps or screens accessed from the Metro UI can actually be closed! That's right! None of them have a close button, an exit option, anything! Once you open the program, it remains running even when you switch to something else which is a terrible waste of system resources and going to cause a TON of problems. I found the only way to close any of those programs is to open task manager and kill the process.

Speaking of task manager, they have a new one! While I kind of like the new task manager, I don't like that it has to be more complicated. There's now a "simple" view which only lists running programs, and then a more complex view which shows the system resources in use, the users, processes, etc. similar to the original task manager in XP and 7. HOWEVER, I found that if you run the original process name for task manager (open RUN command and type taskmgr.exe) you actually bring up the OLD task manager. The new task manager is just simply tm.exe

Another pointless frustration I have been trying to figure out is again related to the start menu. When you install a new program (like I installed Firefox on the computer) it will often times create a tile shortcut automatically in the Metro UI Start screen for that program. But what if you want to pin other shortcuts or programs to the menu? I at first just thought, "Hey, I'll just right click and select Pin to Start Menu." Unfortunately, that does nothing. It doesn't create a tile for it and, as I mentioned before, there's no more start menu either so it simply does truly nothing.

Now, there are some things I do like about it. First, the boot up system has been modified in a sort of hybrid hibernation. From what I understand, the computer stores an image of the system at startup directly onto the hard drive. This way, even when power is completely off, when your computer turns on it will post and then simply load up that image. I was truly impressed with the speed of load up on this system even using a pretty standard desktop with standard mechanical hard drive. It was up and ready in literally two seconds! I can't imagine that an SSD will even be able to help speed up that kind of boot up time by anything! I'm also curious about the new way that they are handling Live accounts. Basically, when creating a user account you can select to use a Windows LIVE account (such as your hotmail account or whatever) to create a user account that then has its settings synced to anywhere you go. If you have Windows 8 with your Windows LIVE account at home, and then drive to your office and log in there with your Windows LIVE account, it automatically has all the same settings as your home computer. Now, obviously there would still be some differences of course depending upon what software you have installed on the computer, but it presents an interesting idea of having very fluid transition from computer to computer and keeping things familiar.

Another feature I really like is including Hyper-V. Now, pretty much no one out there will use this feature directly within Windows 8 unless they are intentionally setting up a server system but I still think it's wonderful to see such a powerful feature of Windows Server 2008 be brought to the consumer level for usage. I was able to install Hyper-V using the Add and Remove Programs and Windows Features menu and had installed a virtual machine also running Windows 8 literally within fifteen minutes. Windows 8 also recognized all my drivers without any problem, including my USB wireless adapter which Windows 7 does not recognize automatically.

All in all, this may be a great advancement to expand Microsoft's ability to work with new mobile devices like tablets, but the functionality that they are sacrificing on the desktop front is truly horrendous. After all, the number of devices that utilize touch input as their primary form of interaction is a tiny fraction of computer devices. It's like Microsoft is willing to cut off its entire market base of business desktop computing just for the opportunity to gain some new customers that play with a tablet.
 

Mike F

New Member
I had a feeling I wasn't gonna dig the new Metro UI, but geez, that does sound pretty terrible. There's a registry hack here - http://www.geek.com/articles/geek-pick/how-to-get-a-windows-7-start-menu-in-windows-8-20110914 - that brings back the start menu, task manager, and explorer from 7 if it's really bugging you, not sure what the point of even having 8 would be if you're going to do that though, other than checking for compatibility and seeing how system resources are allocated differently between 7 and 8 for the same program.
 

choucove

New Member
Yeah, it pretty much seems like Microsoft either needs to make some major changes to how desktops can interact with the Metro UI as well, or just flat out allow users to eliminate using it if they choose.

I'll keep playing with it as is, after all that's what I'm trying to do is learn the new system early so I can be prepared to teach others when they are learning it with a new computer. However, the way things are going I can foresee a LOT of complaints and basically a Vista Mark II headed this way if they can't get some things changed.
 

Roto

New Member
I believe that you will have the choice to load or not load Metro when you are installing Win8. I also read that you will be able to toggle between Metro and the Desktop... also if you have 2 monitors you can have Metro on one and the Desktop on the other... quite frankly I have no interest in Metro on my Work machine.
Check out these articles... it looka pretty Cool!
http://news.cnet.com/posts/?keyword=Windows+8&tag=mncol;tags
Roto
 

Joe Diaz

New Member
Yeah I heard the same thing Roto. All though I didn't here the part about the duel monitors.

Yeah the metro part doesn't interest me for my work PC, but who knows one day I may get a tablet with windows 8 on it. Then I can see it being handy. I already own a windows phone 7. I really like it and from everything I've seen, Windows 8 has taken a few ques from that setup.
 

Bobby H

Arial Sucks.
The stuff going on with the user interface of Windows 8 is more of developers trying to chase Apple into the consumer electronics gadget/media consumption device space. Apple is pushing its app store more and more into OSX and doing more to leverage its line of "i" devices. In being scared, rivals like Microsoft are trying to be more iPad/iPhone like than Apple is even doing.

The Win 8 UI is horrible for actual computer applications. It's basically looks like the Windows Phone 7 OS blown up on a regular computer screen. It's going to get very much in the way of getting work done. The "aero" UI in Vista and Win7 already consumed enough extra pixels. The UI is taking screen hogging UI trash to a whole new level.

I'm not all sold on the whole touch-based direction the OS is taking either. It's a nice thing to have if you want it, but in the end I'm using a mouse and keyboard much of the time. Now if they offered touch-screen activity using a variety of tools (pen, brush, felt tip marker, etc.) and did so at a reasonable price I could get behind that. Wacom's new 24" Cintiq screen/tablet costs $2500 and weighs over 60 pounds. Ow.

Microsoft and others are losing sight of why people buy and use certain digital-based tools. They're doing too much to push their brand name and "digital fashion" and not doing enough to make the UI get out of the way and let the applications do their thing.
 

Mike F

New Member
Wonder if it'll support hooking up a tablet to a computer... I suppose it could be pretty cool to run the Metro UI through the tablet, while using most or all of your applications through the traditional single/dual display with a mouse & keyboard. I could see myself using the tablet to monkey around with my multimedia library and having my music/videos play on one screen, while working or playing a game on the other. I already use my HDTV as a second monitor for my laptop when I'm at home, I think having a touchscreen to launch applications and look through files and whatnot would be pretty nifty.
 

choucove

New Member
I believe that you will have the choice to load or not load Metro when you are installing Win8. I also read that you will be able to toggle between Metro and the Desktop... also if you have 2 monitors you can have Metro on one and the Desktop on the other... quite frankly I have no interest in Metro on my Work machine.
Check out these articles... it looka pretty Cool!
http://news.cnet.com/posts/?keyword=Windows+8&tag=mncol;tags
Roto

So far while working with the development release I am not seeing this functionality.

While you can switch between the Metro UI and the normal Windows Aero UI, it's basically just pulling up the "Start" menu now just switches you over to the Aero UI side. There's no disabling it, it's just there.

Also, it is possible to "snap" the two user interfaces together on a screen. This means that approximately one quarter to one third of your screen (on either the left or the right side) will run one of the UI that you wish while the rest of the space runs the other UI. However, I was disappointed to find that you cannot resize this! You are allowed to "snap" the UI to one side or the other and split the screen like I said, but you cannot resize it, dragging the divisor bar just makes one interface or the other then take over full screen. I haven't set up dual monitors yet to this system, so I'll have to try that out later tonight and see what options are there.
 

Mike F

New Member
Gonna try the dual monitors / dual UI as well if I get around to installing tonight. Gotta make room on my external at home so I can backup this laptop but I dunno if I'll get around to it, got some other stuff to do around the house tonight so it may just have to wait till the weekend.
 

Techman

New Member
Windows 8 is introducing features for the future. They are integrating / developing counter tops with computer interfaces with in the surface. No need for keyboards and meece. The glass top counter surfaces is the screen and interface.

Think of an Ipad counter top and you have it.

Place your smart phone on the counter top and drag a photo from the phone to the top. Then move it to a wall display near the dining table and the whole family can see it..

So, thinking of 8 as a desktop computer will have us frustrated. Thinking of win 8 as an integrated system using touch then we will be amazed.
 

choucove

New Member
I can understand the vision that Microsoft has for creating a more "unified" operating platform for devices of all types. The problem that I see with it is that consumer electronics that support this type of vision just aren't in place yet, and I fear it will greatly impact how people perceive Windows.

If companies and homes all across the US were ready to transition to in-countertop computers and wall mounted all-in-ones (which I honestly think sounds sweet, but just isn't going to happen yet) then I think it would be a much different story

Perhaps, then, what I have to keep in mind is that Windows 8 is simply going to be a "transitioning" period from the normal powerful desktop oriented UI to a more mobile universal platform which will mean utter inoperability on a regular desktop. And if that is the case then... Well, sounds like I'll be out of a job!
 

Techman

New Member
consumer electronics that support this type of vision just aren't in place yet,

which I honestly think sounds sweet, but just isn't going to happen yet

Sorry my friend. It is happening right how as we speak. I did not see prototypes. I saw actual devices.

They may not be with a huge fan base yet, but they are being installed.
 

Roto

New Member
Sorry my friend. It is happening right how as we speak. I did not see prototypes. I saw actual devices.

They may not be with a huge fan base yet, but they are being installed.
:goodpost:
Spot on! MS can't afford to ignore the desktop 350,000,000 PeeCee's out there & Quadcore Tablets appearing as we speak.
 

Roto

New Member
I already own a windows phone 7. I really like it and from everything I've seen, Windows 8 has taken a few ques from that setup.

I think as the new integrated device emerge Win?? will catch up to Android & the Eye Phone (Futurama LOL)
Roto
 

choucove

New Member
I understand that the devices are available and being installed - these kinds of things have been demonstrated by several companies out there. At ISA this year in Las Vegas I saw a very neat glass panel created by LG that was just a see-through regular sheet of glass that also functioned as a touch display.

Tablets are the next big push with technology, the hardware behind them is increasing at a fast pace. That's the whole reason why Windows 8 is going in the direction it is, and the reason it's being pushed out for release so quickly since Windows 7 release. Don't get me wrong. I understand the need for the changes in Windows 8, and I understand the devices that it targets are becoming available out there. However, the functionality currently shown in Windows 8 suggest they are willing to destroy functionality on their greatest market share and most dominant platform available to try and accommodate a growing small market trend that is not quite developed or widely available yet.

The way I'm looking at it I guess is imagine going to a large office with thousands of computers and users requiring a desktop environment and then tell them, "Well, we're trading out all your computers for iPads" and switch them all to an iOS device immediately. A lot of things aren't going to work right, it's going to take major market changes in every aspect of the technology field to accommodate.
 

Bobby H

Arial Sucks.
Um, some of this stuff is pushing in the direction of solutions in search of a problem. Does a kitchen refrigerator really need to be digitally equipped & connected to the Internet, much less have the latest version of Windows running on it?

Call me skeptical or even paranoid, but I think a bunch of this Windows, iOS or Android device proliferation into various appliances is little more than a money making ploy coming from bean counting sales folks. They gotta be in your TV set to see specifically what programs you're watching. And they gotta be in your fridge to see what food you're stuffing into your face.

In the example involving the kitchen fridge with WiFi, I can probably look up recipes and other stuff on my notebook computer or Android phone just as fast. The digital fridge can probably delve into more creepy areas, like automatically reading all the bar codes on your food products and uploading them to "the cloud." Web cams and other in-the-fridge tech can see when you're low on Coca-Cola, veggies, lunch meat and mustard. Before you can even say, "wow, I need to go to the store and buy some groceries," some dude is showing up on your doorstep with more of the junk you've been eating and give you a nice delivery surcharge -some of which will be paid to said bean counters. Cha-ching!
 
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