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Need Help Wordmark Logo for signage, apparel, website, ...
- Thread starter Edvin
- Start date
shoresigns
New Member
But does that include a random guy who's opening a non-sign-related business and just came here to ask questions he should be asking his local sign company? I think we were all too distracted by his hilarious first logo to realise he actually shouldn't be here.
Gino
Premium Subscriber
You're 100% correct. I missed that. I thought he was opening a sign kinda store to deal with people of a certain group.
So, it's like being a juror on an important case where the Judge looks over at you and says, disregard what you've just heard the prosecution say and forget about it.
It's already planted there. So, I guess we just mark this guy a known felon and ignore him, huh ??
Kottwitz-Graphics
New Member
I can vouch for Phillip (Sign Amigo). He created my logo, as well as several others on this board. Sometimes when I get slammed with work, or worse, stuck, I send it to him. He has never let me down.
Joe Diaz
New Member
What about "looky" for a name. It currently isn't being used and it's meaning would work nicely for a tutoring service (although it is more slang and not very academic sounding). But it is similar to the name you had without also meaning... you know... ;-)
look·y
ˈlo͝okē/
exclamation
informal
As far as the design goes. There are some good ideas at play here. It just needs a more professional eye, some fine tuning and a little better fit and finish. I like the idea of the words being cartoony and fun, but there is some consistency issues with the typography especially the alternating weights of each letter. Also, if you want a design to be truly flexible, I might avoid gradients, plus it just makes for a cleaner look. The cap could be simplified to look more like a logo icon and less like clip art. Also I personally would try to tie the colors from the icon/imagery into the logo type. The ultimate goal is for those two elements to work on their own yet still be recognized as the same brand.
look·y
ˈlo͝okē/
exclamation
informal
used to draw attention to what one is about to say.
As far as the design goes. There are some good ideas at play here. It just needs a more professional eye, some fine tuning and a little better fit and finish. I like the idea of the words being cartoony and fun, but there is some consistency issues with the typography especially the alternating weights of each letter. Also, if you want a design to be truly flexible, I might avoid gradients, plus it just makes for a cleaner look. The cap could be simplified to look more like a logo icon and less like clip art. Also I personally would try to tie the colors from the icon/imagery into the logo type. The ultimate goal is for those two elements to work on their own yet still be recognized as the same brand.
Edvin
New Member
I would certainly love to tap-into the hive-mind of the collective Borg (I mean sign101) and happy to wear the probationary ankle bracelet if it pleases the court.
No portfolio can speak as loud as this statement; if he is good enough for your business & reputation, then he's good enough for mine. I'll be sure to initiate a dialog with Phil.
AKwrapguy, I really appreciate your the input. I did notice great examples of 1 or 2 colors logos. I based the initial design concept on multi-color brands like ebay and google. Admittedly, these are online businesses; but, I used toysrus to form the basis of Wordmark design requirements for both lighted signage and apparel. I included purple in the color to account for female segment, which babysrus capitalizes on.
Am I mistaking with multi-color concept? Were google and ebay targeting younger audience? Is toysrus still a good model?
Admittedly, I have not found good freeway billboards for these brands; perhaps, that is the reason why one should stick to 1-or-2 color concept. Though, I my competitors do not utilize billboard ad; hence, limiting to 1-or-2 color brand might be a moot point.
Maybe I'm just trying too hard...
Thanks for the biz name suggestion; but, "looky" domain name is not available. Coming up with a brand-able name has proven to be difficult, and I seem to be resetting again (better now than later).
My naming strategy, simplified for this thread, started with "ed" prefix from education, turn "u" to "oo" for design play (i.e. eyes & glasses) and brand-able wordmark (i.e. google) and the "k" was added because I thought a creative element can mutate "d" to "b" to hint on "book"; and lastly "y" was added for character and sound play. That was a mouthful and that got me to a dooky place; pun intended
Given that Phillip (Sign Amigo) has earned members' respect, I'll reach-out to him and see if we can work something out.
I'm hoping that he won't mind if we share his design rational, point-out trade-offs, and A/B test his concepts/versions (if it makes sense to do so).
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signbrad
New Member
I, too, think this design has potential. The letters show remarkable restraint for their lack of embellishment—no outlines, shades, etc—a good thing, in my opinion. The letters are already funky/cartoony. So, keep them clean and undistracted.
Note, too, that the colors share similar intensity. They would be close to each other on the grayscale. This is a plus, I believe, for legibility. No yellow letters here, a mistake I would expect a non-designer to make.
One of the first things I noticed about the colors was the symmetrical positioning. Blues then purples, then greens. And I thought, "Okay, that was predictable." As Mr. Professional Designer, I would have carefully injected randomness, right? But on second glance, would intentional randomness be the more predictable course? So...I think it looks fine. And it allows the eyeballs in the middle to be the same color.
I agree with Joe D that the letterforms could use some discipline. The 'k' and the 'y' resemble siblings. And they both look "handmade," which is not necessarily a bad thing. But the first four letters look more store-bought and share a distinct blackness among themselves. It might be better if the two groups didn't look like two groups of kids from previous marriages. They could all use more family resemblance.
I have seen words composed of non-matching letters that looked kind of cool. It's what I call the "ransom note" look. But it's hard to pull off successfully. The variations in the letters need to be more pronounced, not timid, for it to work.
Also, whatever form the final version of this logo takes, the clipart graduation cap should be replaced by an original drawing. It must be assumed that any clipart image is protected by someone's copyright, which, if incorporated into the design, would prevent the final logo from enjoying complete trademark protection. If this business is successful and can be leveraged into something bigger than a local service, perhaps with a significant web presence and customers in other states, then it would be important that the business owner have clear title to the logo design.
Brad in Kansas City
Note, too, that the colors share similar intensity. They would be close to each other on the grayscale. This is a plus, I believe, for legibility. No yellow letters here, a mistake I would expect a non-designer to make.
One of the first things I noticed about the colors was the symmetrical positioning. Blues then purples, then greens. And I thought, "Okay, that was predictable." As Mr. Professional Designer, I would have carefully injected randomness, right? But on second glance, would intentional randomness be the more predictable course? So...I think it looks fine. And it allows the eyeballs in the middle to be the same color.
I agree with Joe D that the letterforms could use some discipline. The 'k' and the 'y' resemble siblings. And they both look "handmade," which is not necessarily a bad thing. But the first four letters look more store-bought and share a distinct blackness among themselves. It might be better if the two groups didn't look like two groups of kids from previous marriages. They could all use more family resemblance.
I have seen words composed of non-matching letters that looked kind of cool. It's what I call the "ransom note" look. But it's hard to pull off successfully. The variations in the letters need to be more pronounced, not timid, for it to work.
Also, whatever form the final version of this logo takes, the clipart graduation cap should be replaced by an original drawing. It must be assumed that any clipart image is protected by someone's copyright, which, if incorporated into the design, would prevent the final logo from enjoying complete trademark protection. If this business is successful and can be leveraged into something bigger than a local service, perhaps with a significant web presence and customers in other states, then it would be important that the business owner have clear title to the logo design.
Brad in Kansas City
Edvin
New Member
Thanks for the feedback Brad.
I understand what you mean with regards to lack of typeface consistency.
I wanted to convey the idea circular letters with subtle changes to a designer; I was not attempting to deliver full concept in this post; though I think I may have eluded to that.
Similarly, the cap was also placeholder; as you pointed out it needs originality and solid color. With all the circles in the font, it is conceivable that the cap can find a different set of eyes, or perhaps hang from one of the letters. Experienced artist can certainly do wonders here by joining, negating, creating symbols, etc.
What remains a splinter in my head is the color options when I know designers don't share similar industry experience.
I would like the psychology of color to be considered for each medium. For example, based on my color choices, black-polo-shirt would not be a good option for embroidery. If so, should I consider using grays in that moment, or consider adding white border? or should a white halo be part of the design. How does this change when considering signage visibility color selection?
With understanding that color attributes 80% of brand recognition, I can't change my colors on different mediums; so, I'm trying to look past the website logo or storefront signage and doing my best to understand design choices and implications.
I understand what you mean with regards to lack of typeface consistency.
I wanted to convey the idea circular letters with subtle changes to a designer; I was not attempting to deliver full concept in this post; though I think I may have eluded to that.
Similarly, the cap was also placeholder; as you pointed out it needs originality and solid color. With all the circles in the font, it is conceivable that the cap can find a different set of eyes, or perhaps hang from one of the letters. Experienced artist can certainly do wonders here by joining, negating, creating symbols, etc.
What remains a splinter in my head is the color options when I know designers don't share similar industry experience.
I would like the psychology of color to be considered for each medium. For example, based on my color choices, black-polo-shirt would not be a good option for embroidery. If so, should I consider using grays in that moment, or consider adding white border? or should a white halo be part of the design. How does this change when considering signage visibility color selection?
With understanding that color attributes 80% of brand recognition, I can't change my colors on different mediums; so, I'm trying to look past the website logo or storefront signage and doing my best to understand design choices and implications.
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E-Bay and Google aren't your competitors and the multi color is not being use with a 'goofy kindergarten font'. The font for google/ebay are standard fonts that have been slightly tweaked (also I don't like either one of their logo's either). Again Toys R Us is marketing straight to children, young children. While I understand that the market you want to target is k-12 you are actually again going after the parents/grandparents/teachers/administrators. If you want to market directly to the young demo try to find the age group that will use your services the most and target them.
As far as you competitors look at Kahn Academy, Lynda, Tuts+, and other online training business. They're approachable for all ages, but not catering for a specific group or demo.
Look at some of the best branding in the world, Red Bull, Coke, McDonald's, KFC...
Edvin
New Member
Thanks @AKwrapguy
Well, original ebay seemed more like corporate brand, and lets not even talk about google (ebay & google history).
I'll give myself +1 point for attempting to avoid their mistake.
It is fascinating when I look at top brands, like the ones you mentioned.
McDonnald for one has the highest color contrast, which works great for freeway signs; I'm not sure if this was by design or accident.
I understand the color excitement with red and yellow and their place in food/refreshment industry while communicating inexpensive pricing, which is what I want to shy away from.
But, I can't help think that we have been pre-programmed after years of seeing yellows and reds on freeway signs; but, I digress.
I can appreciate the illustration in Lynda.com; but, do I need to be a designer to say that it is a poor color choice.
However, khan academy brand does seems to follow design principles.
Agreed; so no goofy lettering. got-it.
Well, original ebay seemed more like corporate brand, and lets not even talk about google (ebay & google history).
It is fascinating when I look at top brands, like the ones you mentioned.
McDonnald for one has the highest color contrast, which works great for freeway signs; I'm not sure if this was by design or accident.
I understand the color excitement with red and yellow and their place in food/refreshment industry while communicating inexpensive pricing, which is what I want to shy away from.
But, I can't help think that we have been pre-programmed after years of seeing yellows and reds on freeway signs; but, I digress.
I can appreciate the illustration in Lynda.com; but, do I need to be a designer to say that it is a poor color choice.
However, khan academy brand does seems to follow design principles.
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JTBoh
I sell signage and signage accessories.
If you can afford the above, I'm sure you can afford a professional design.
If it's not cost, than it's pride, and self-designed logos by a non-designer are never good.
/edit -
This whole thing reeks of a college student trolling for a class.
Edvin
New Member
I don't get-it.
If you're implying that I'm a student or trying to use this forum to become a design agency; rest assured that's not the case. But, if my statements are above anyone's head, I respectfully assert that 1) they wont be able to help me, 2) are the reason why I found my way to this forum, 3) are designers that I want to avoid.
Agreed.
I genuinely appreciated Kottwitz-Graphics comment, so I'm reaching out to Sign Amigo. This referral beats any googling.
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Edvin
New Member
Maybe edooky wouldn't hurt me as much as we perceived since dooky restaurant has been serving our presidents for sometime now; nevertheless, it was a great catch. As I went back to the drawing board, I was amazed how a simple letter change could make a huge difference. A seemingly innocent change to come up with a new term, made edooky look like a fresh powder snow; thank goodness for urbandictionary.
After spending hours of trial & error I came-up with a new term that I'm happy with (unless you discover another hidden meaning).
The new term is : Gradlink
I would like your thoughts on "branding" as one word (Gradlink) or as two words rendition (Gradlink, GradLink, Grad Link, ...).
I don't think there is a right or wrong answer here; but, wanted to get your feedback. Below are some examples of both:
Single word rendition example
Two word rendition example
Thanks,
Edvin
After spending hours of trial & error I came-up with a new term that I'm happy with (unless you discover another hidden meaning).
The new term is : Gradlink
I would like your thoughts on "branding" as one word (Gradlink) or as two words rendition (Gradlink, GradLink, Grad Link, ...).
I don't think there is a right or wrong answer here; but, wanted to get your feedback. Below are some examples of both:
Single word rendition example
Thanks,
Edvin
Edvin
New Member
Yes, there is a cybersquater sitting on the domain.
The plan is to trademark the name and use alternative domain name (i.e. grad-link.com or gradlink.center, etc).
I can then reach the cybersquater offer him $100 to see if he wants to sell it; otherwise, he can keep it and never be able to sell it to anyone.
Johnny Best
Active Member
All you people talk too much about nothing, This guy has filled out the logo form and added 100 pages.
C
color choice, that font this font, yadda yadda. ElDooky can be the mascot, dressed up as a big turd.
C
Johnny Best
Active Member
Glad he is going to help you.
HDvinyl
Trump 2020
You are confused. The domain owner owns the name, you will be the one trying to prove you thought of the name first. Good luck with a ® .
You are also confused to what a "cybersquater" is, they are someone that registers a domain of an ALREADY ESTABLISHED company.
Go make your billions in some other profession.
Edvin
New Member
Thank you for the correction HDvinyl; and you are right there is more to it, which can be seen in a previous dialog that I had in a legal forum.
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