wrapping over a wrap... any specific concerns I should be aware of?

[iSign]

I've printed everything on IJ180C, and laminated with Oraguard 290.

I'm doing a 24' box truck & it has been wrapped before. The colors look pretty shabby because I think it had some kind of liquid laminate brushed on, which seems not to have worked, but it looks like a good air release vinyl, sticking well, and conforming well around rivets.

I realize the possibility of a liquid lam makes this question a little harder to answer, being an unknown substance, but besides that does anyone have tips or tricks I should know? ...or concerns?

The reason I suspect a liquid lam is all these lines like brush marks... at first I thought it was scratches from scraping past brush & stuff, but then I realized it looked like brush marks

 

[ProWraps]

that liquid lam is going to be a major fail if it fails. as that stuff gets older it tends to crack right off the prints its applied to.

be careful!

 

[iSign]

it actually doesn't look like any lam is there... certainly not enough to crack, but there are these mysterious scratches. Ever seen anything like this?

 

[DucatiDave]

did they run it trough a hot laminator without a laminate on the print??????? Those are PERFECTLY horizontal...they are not likely caused by the environment b.c there would be variations in directions...

Could be bad material that had marks from the factory that was printed on and then didn't bond with the vinyl in certain spots...but in my years I have never seen that before...but remove it, don't wrap over it...that will come back to haunt you...

 

[iSign]

here's a closeup:

http://islandsign.com/brushmarks2.jpg

 

[Fitch]

Doug do the right thing and rip it off... but then the client may be happy not to.

I would get a waiver saying that if the new wrap fails due to previous liner - "your fault"

Either way I would not warrant past 6 - 12 months, Probably only warrant the new print anyway.

Cheers - G

 

[Circleville Signs]

I would not warranty ANYTHING that I couldnt' inspect the paint on. If they insist that you install over the old wrap, then as Fitch stated, they need to sign on a waiver stating that there is no warranty, and that they went against your express professional opinion in the method of installation.

 

[Letterbox Mike]

No way would I wrap over that either. Aside from the obvious issue of the unknown substance on the surface, the old vinyl is starting to tent pretty badly over the rivets. By now in those areas it's probably brittle as well, so it won't take much for it to crack and start flaking off. When you're applying your new vinyl over it, chances are good simply by squeegeeing the rivets you're going to damage the underlying vinyl and cause an extremely premature failure of the new wrap.

But not to mention, you have no idea what's on the surface. Something obviously is, but I wouldn't gamble with my reputation by wrapping over something like that.

Look on the bright side, you could upsell them a good chunk to remove the old wrap...

 

[DucatiDave]

I'm with insignia on this 100%

 

[Gino]

This might have some bearing... what does this truck do for a living.... you know the owners ??

In the meantime, I totally agree with the others.... even if the customer doesn't want to pay you to remove the old vinyl, I would not double-dip the new good stuff on there. Sounds like a complete recipe for disaster by the looks of your second picture.

 

[CheapVehicleWrap]

Wouldn't do it either. Why did you mix brands?

 

[iSign]

testing a removal of the first section.. really didn't want to do this, and can't charge for it... but trusting the pros enough to determine how much time I'm gonna eat if I go through with this.. so far, looks like I will bite the bullet, do the removal, and still feel ok with my price...

thanks guys!

 

[Stealth Ryder]

Ript it off, it's the right thing to do...

 

[cdiesel]

Doug,
Why can't you charge for it?

We've wrapped over existing vinyl before, but with the understanding (and written waiver) that there is NO warranty at all. In fact, discuss with them that you may not even be able to install. If you start installing and as you need to pop the vinyl back up, it pulls the lam, ink, whatever off, you're stuck with vinyl with no adhesive.

 

[Joe Diaz]

It almost looks like they didn't laminate it, and then cleaned it with horizontal strokes using some sort of solvent that wiped off the ink. That, or the roll of material they printed on had some sort of residue, or wasn't intended to be printed on in the first place and as time has gone on, it started to look like that.

 

[Mosh]

Get a Hotsi and powerwash it off. Works like a charm and should only take an hour to do both sides.

 

[Gino]

Doug, the reason I asked what the company does for a living is that... we've had customers over the years... come in with all kinds of crap wrong with their vinyl [and painted trucks, too] and said it broke down and they want to replace it. Turns out in every case.... it was a paint company, a sandblast company, a power wash company and the likes. All companies that thought they knew better and either tried to make it last longer by painting something on themselves that had an adverse affect or thought they could prolong the life of their lettering job, by doing what they so well understood. Others tried removal themselves and made our task sometimes horrible.

If you've already given them a price and thought you could go directly over the existing problem.... tell them you've had a change of heart after studying this case and you want them to sign a waiver or allow you to take the existing junk off and be honest and tell them you'll split the cost with them and chalk it up for yourself..... as experience earned and learned.

 

[Sign_Boy]

Gino.

I wouldn't wrap over the existing wrap.
That's IMO just asking for problems.

 

[Baz]

I would suspect they used a foam brush to lay on some liquid clear. Where the clear is less thick the ink has faded more. Personnaly i wouldn't install over this. The chances of failure (sections or whole) are to great.

 

[iSign]

I would suspect they used a foam brush to lay on some liquid clear. Where the clear is less thick the ink has faded more. Personaly i wouldn't install over this. The chances of failure (sections or whole) are to great.

yes, that is my assessment as well...

My situation was the truck was here this morning & has to be picked up at noon tomorrow, the proposal was accepted & my job was to wrap it, not remove it... client instructions...

Now, I wanted to learn from the pros here, and gave serious consideration to their comments... on the removal question however, I took off one 48" section & while I don't claim to be an expert, & I don't doubt others are faster, or that the hot pressure washer Mosh mentioned would be faster, for us, it was a full hours work, for the two of us... meaning we could wrap the thing, or unwrap it... not both...

So, I called ProWraps and CDiesel and both were willing to share their expertise... and while signed waivers or witholding warranties are logical, if the graphics are well stuck down, and there isn't some delaminating crap in front of the graphics.. it's not like the lowest of sins to wrap a wrap...

so that's what I did!

I never got a photo of the old wrap until tonight. I only did one side, so I shot a pic to show you the guys logo as of yesterday. He didn't have any art, so I redrew the logo & the word Maui. I decided to offer him some tweaks too, so I made him a little sign for his office. The third pic is where I stopped working at 8pm.,.. another of many 12 hour days here this week, but good money was made, & I will have 2 more of these trucks to do as well, (and of course the second side of this one!

Thanks again to everyone for your thoughtful advice!