johnnysigns
New Member
No one's talking Garbage Materials here, Corrugated will never be flat and while it's not a huge chunk of what I need to print on yearly it is something I need to work well through a new machine... thanks for the input.
-
I want to thank all the members that have upgraded your accounts. I truly appreciate your support of the site monetarily. Supporting the site keeps this site up and running as a lot of work daily goes on behind the scenes. Click to Support Signs101 ...
Best Flatbed?
- Thread starter cwb143
- Start date
artbot
New Member
on the subject of "flatness". some materials are never going to go flat. simply because they've been affected my moisture or when they were manufactured they didn't cool properly and there are some contraction/shrinkage issues.
that being the case, neither a flatbed with the strongest vacuum or a belt will be able to snap down an expanded edge or buckle in the middle of a sheet.
what is the printing head height that is common amongst many of the popular flatbed/beltdrives? i've heard that raising the heads too high can cause over spray and uv reflection to cure ink on to the head.
when i print past buckles i momentarily pause the printer, raise my heads to the highest level, print passed, then when past the buckle, pause and drop the head. the resolution suffers very slightly but it's passable in just in a small area. is this possible with these flatbeds? or what is the procedure that a user has to go through when he sees his head carriage approaching a trouble spot?
that being the case, neither a flatbed with the strongest vacuum or a belt will be able to snap down an expanded edge or buckle in the middle of a sheet.
what is the printing head height that is common amongst many of the popular flatbed/beltdrives? i've heard that raising the heads too high can cause over spray and uv reflection to cure ink on to the head.
when i print past buckles i momentarily pause the printer, raise my heads to the highest level, print passed, then when past the buckle, pause and drop the head. the resolution suffers very slightly but it's passable in just in a small area. is this possible with these flatbeds? or what is the procedure that a user has to go through when he sees his head carriage approaching a trouble spot?
whatever material i order I tell the vendor to make sure that pallet of material is damage free. If its not they get to comeback and pick up that pallet and get me a new one. Then the vendor gets pissed and takes it back to manufacturer and let them figure it out. I use Coro, Sintra, vinyl on the flatbed hardly any issues regarding flatness.
johnnysigns
New Member
I'm largely printing on Coroplast and HIPS w/ PVC thrown in occasionally and a smattering of Corrugated, Banner and some PS Vinyl.
Corrugated is largely the pain in the neck as the vac will pull right through the sheets and the the fluted edges being massive leak sources. On our flatbed that requires taping edges which is what I've been dealing with off and on all week as I bop between different jobs and the Corrugated that need to get out to die cutting.
In terms of head height I'm just running higher than normal. There's safety bumpers on heads that will stop the machine if it comes in contact w/ an obstruction generally long before the heads themselves are in danger. This isn't a bullet proof system but it works as needed.
Corrugated is largely the pain in the neck as the vac will pull right through the sheets and the the fluted edges being massive leak sources. On our flatbed that requires taping edges which is what I've been dealing with off and on all week as I bop between different jobs and the Corrugated that need to get out to die cutting.
In terms of head height I'm just running higher than normal. There's safety bumpers on heads that will stop the machine if it comes in contact w/ an obstruction generally long before the heads themselves are in danger. This isn't a bullet proof system but it works as needed.
artbot
New Member
but what would be the procedure? many times, i am the cause of the warp. i torch my pieces, a weld may have gotten to hot in a spot, etc.
can you pause and raise, or what is the working head height over a substrate for different models. i'd figure for me, if it was 1mm or 2mm, i'd still need a 2-3 mm allowance. can these printers print running 5mm over the substrate without damaging the nozzles from overspray?
can you pause and raise, or what is the working head height over a substrate for different models. i'd figure for me, if it was 1mm or 2mm, i'd still need a 2-3 mm allowance. can these printers print running 5mm over the substrate without damaging the nozzles from overspray?
johnnysigns
New Member
There's 1.3mm of space built in if you dial in your height to what you're mic'ing your material at on this press. On problematic media I'll pad that height above what it mics. On this press you cannot pause w/out ruining the bed as it won't go back to the same position which is either a flaw in our specific press or just poorly thought on on the part of the engineers, I don't know a single other person locally running one of these currently. Going several mm's over your substrate is definitely going to affect quality at the given speed at which you're running. Obviously faster speeds will look worse.
johnnysigns
New Member
To clarify: 1.3mm space between the head and the substrate if you're mic'ing 3mm and you set 3mm.
Typestries
New Member
CWB- LMAO, us too. I once had the owner and comptroller of one of the large distributors show up unannounced right after the USSC show. They came in all huffy, proclaiming that we're costing them money sending stuff back, who do we think we are, this is the sign business, no panel is perfect, and so on.
I took them out to the shop, showed them the $48k in heads in the machine, then showed them the pile of 3mm PVC- all 48 of them, that their driver just delivered that morning. I hadn't even yet had a chance to call and complain about them. They were filthy and beat to hell. They were not gonna ever come close to landing on the machine. Funny how quickly left with their tails between their legs.
When the branch manager showed up to pick them up himself, I told the guys they were needed elsewhere. It took him almost an hour to load those sheets.
Guess what, they don't send any crappy stuff, anymore!
I took them out to the shop, showed them the $48k in heads in the machine, then showed them the pile of 3mm PVC- all 48 of them, that their driver just delivered that morning. I hadn't even yet had a chance to call and complain about them. They were filthy and beat to hell. They were not gonna ever come close to landing on the machine. Funny how quickly left with their tails between their legs.
When the branch manager showed up to pick them up himself, I told the guys they were needed elsewhere. It took him almost an hour to load those sheets.
Guess what, they don't send any crappy stuff, anymore!
CWB- LMAO, us too. I once had the owner and comptroller of one of the large distributors show up unannounced right after the USSC show. They came in all huffy, proclaiming that we're costing them money sending stuff back, who do we think we are, this is the sign business, no panel is perfect, and so on.
I took them out to the shop, showed them the $48k in heads in the machine, then showed them the pile of 3mm PVC- all 48 of them, that their driver just delivered that morning. I hadn't even yet had a chance to call and complain about them. They were filthy and beat to hell. They were not gonna ever come close to landing on the machine. Funny how quickly left with their tails between their legs.
When the branch manager showed up to pick them up himself, I told the guys they were needed elsewhere. It took him almost an hour to load those sheets.
Guess what, they don't send any crappy stuff, anymore!
Nicely done!
artbot
New Member
no apology needed. you guys are providing priceless information to the rest of us that, with that information will make the proper decisions in the future concerning equipment choice.
about 20 years ago, i flipped the coin on two printers. when with the "brand new state of the art" roland fj50. as soon as i got it set up, i realized the brochure was stretching/lying about it's head height adjustment range. i modified my product, etc. but in the end all those modifications caused my final part to come in too expensive thus causing me to abandon $60,000 in r&d. so a real user experience vs. searching on the internet is priceless to a small shop that can not make mistakes when picking up equipment. the equipment plus the install plus the months of fussing and cussing can ruin you.
so thank you all for helping us all out in this matter.
about 20 years ago, i flipped the coin on two printers. when with the "brand new state of the art" roland fj50. as soon as i got it set up, i realized the brochure was stretching/lying about it's head height adjustment range. i modified my product, etc. but in the end all those modifications caused my final part to come in too expensive thus causing me to abandon $60,000 in r&d. so a real user experience vs. searching on the internet is priceless to a small shop that can not make mistakes when picking up equipment. the equipment plus the install plus the months of fussing and cussing can ruin you.
so thank you all for helping us all out in this matter.
corrugated cardboard
All we do is corrugated... Not sure where you are getting your paper, but the key to flat is called "balanced liners". Ask your vendor if they can provide that. If you are buying in decent qtys, you should be able to require that. The other option is to require down warp. Any good corrugated supplier can force the direction of warp. Now this all assumes that you use the material quickly. If this is sitting in a warehouse for several months, all bets are off. Shrink wrap it if you are going thru seasons with the same unit. IM me if you want more info on corrugated.
Good Luck
Rick
All we do is corrugated... Not sure where you are getting your paper, but the key to flat is called "balanced liners". Ask your vendor if they can provide that. If you are buying in decent qtys, you should be able to require that. The other option is to require down warp. Any good corrugated supplier can force the direction of warp. Now this all assumes that you use the material quickly. If this is sitting in a warehouse for several months, all bets are off. Shrink wrap it if you are going thru seasons with the same unit. IM me if you want more info on corrugated.
Good Luck
Rick
johnnysigns
New Member
We're shrink wrapping upon arrival, and yes sometimes this stuff will sit, but by and large it's only here a week and it's through the press. I spoke to our vendors earlier about requiring down warping for us to accept the pieces in the future. I appreciate the info.
soundhound
New Member
Anyone have any experience with the smaller machines?
I am looking at a Brother (Br 1290 UV printer) which is approx 3' x 4' print area and would fit into my workflow.
Does anyone know who actually manufactures these machines?
I am looking at a Brother (Br 1290 UV printer) which is approx 3' x 4' print area and would fit into my workflow.
Does anyone know who actually manufactures these machines?
artbot
New Member
here's a guy that i've been in contact with that really truly does make small (4x4, etc) uv printers. he also has tons of mutoh flatbed conversions.
i like the idea of these chinese start ups filming their facilities and discussing their product. chinese manufacturers need to do a better job at marketing.
i'd say skyjet is doing a good job "introducing the company" but not many others.
also it would help if they didn't call their printers the:
Printer UV Awesome Pad-Flat Inkjet 2000 Seiko
that's just not a compelling product identity.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsG8cX5hZ8s&feature=channel_video_title
i like the idea of these chinese start ups filming their facilities and discussing their product. chinese manufacturers need to do a better job at marketing.
i'd say skyjet is doing a good job "introducing the company" but not many others.
also it would help if they didn't call their printers the:
Printer UV Awesome Pad-Flat Inkjet 2000 Seiko
that's just not a compelling product identity.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsG8cX5hZ8s&feature=channel_video_title
BigfishDM
Merchant Member
More than 450 globally and 75 so far in the States
You're probable aware that you are answering the question asked in November 2011? And it may be a "little" too late?