18" by 9" Car Door Magnets

[Z SIGNS]

I knew the day would come when signs are cheaper than sliced baloney.

 

[player]

My Clients dont seem to have a problem with it, if fact they like it better now that I show design as a separate line item. It allows them to compare apples to apples.

And that setup charge is once per print run so if they order 1 set or 10 sets they only pay $10.

You actually get away with a $10 art charge? Highway robbery!

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

You actually get away with a $10 art charge? Highway robbery!

Yes, but I guess I'm selling to cheap in your eyes.

 

[player]

Too cheap.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

Works for me, so I have no reason to change.

 

[reQ]

Let it go guys.... 2CT "makes money" in his eyes. So there is no reason to prove anything.

Btw, i would rather have my machines IDLE than wear them out doing this kind of work for nothing.

P.S. Nothing personal, i just don't understand why people dump prices like that

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

Let it go guys.... 2CT "makes money" in his eyes. So there is no reason to prove anything.

Btw, i would rather have my machines IDLE than wear them out doing this kind of work for nothing.

P.S. Nothing personal, i just don't understand why people dump prices like that

Nothing personal but I don't see how you can't mathmatically see its profitable?

You do realize that everyone in this business has different overheads right? You do realize that we all pay different prices for products? You do realize that your market in Canada is different then mine in Arizona? You do realize that I pay a hell of a lot less taxes then the rest of this country let alone my state due to the county I'm in?

Exactly my point, It works for me where it may not for you. My shop average profit is $150/hr for everything we do which nets us $600K+ a year in sales with a 35% gross profit, it works for me or I wouldn't still be in business.

 

[reQ]

Oh my god, i got my morning coffee & muffin... just in time for some forum reading!

 

[reQ]

Nothing personal but I don't see how you can't mathmatically see its profitable?

You do realize that everyone in this business has different overheads right? You do realize that we all pay different prices for products? You do realize that your market in Canada is different then mine in Arizona? You do realize that I pay a hell of a lot less taxes then the rest of this country let alone my state due to the county I'm in?

Exactly my point, It works for me where it may not for you. My shop average profit is $150/hr for everything we do which nets us $600K+ a year in sales with a 35% gross profit, it works for me or I wouldn't still be in business.

The way you price out stuff (at least magnets) i admit, i don't understand how you gross 35% from 600k

 

[Gino]

Nothing personal but I don't see how you can't mathmatically see its profitable?

You do realize that everyone in this business has different overheads right? You do realize that we all pay different prices for products? You do realize that your market in Canada is different then mine in Arizona? You do realize that I pay a hell of a lot less taxes then the rest of this country let alone my state due to the county I'm in?

Exactly my point, It works for me where it may not for you. My shop average profit is $150/hr for everything we do which nets us $600K+ a year in sales with a 35% gross profit, it works for me or I wouldn't still be in business.

There's no need to put those numbers up. In fact, do yourself a favor and edit them out. No one wants to see them.

While overhead, costs and local markets are indeed all different, the fundamentals are still the same. I think what most are having trouble with on this is, you don't hafta sell them that cheap. You can get much more and do less work. Why do 10 sets a week for $500 when you can do 3 sets, get the same money and have time to do something profitable ??

My old question is this...... would you want to do 10 trucks a week for $200 ea or 3 for a normal price and do far less work, use less material and have less headaches ??

That is the mathematical difference you mentioned. Less hours, less material, less overhead, less utilities and make the same if not more money, so perhaps your taxes would jump a little, but not enough to matter. If you played your cards right, you could do twice or 3 times the amount of work and triple your numbers. Would that make a difference in your bottom line ??

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

The way you price out stuff (at least magnets) i admit, i don't understand how you gross 35% from 600k

How can you not? I put all the math out there for you...

Here I'll add a little more to help you understand

We area 2 man operation, with subs for most installs

My total overhead including salaries, machine time, facilities, etc is $46.85/hr with 60hrs/wk operating time.

On average our material costs is less then 30% of our billed amount.

I'm an S-Corp and only pay taxes after expenses, my employment tax is less then 30% on $30,000 salaries.

 

[reQ]

How can you not? I put all the math out there for you...

Here I'll add a little more to help you understand

We area 2 man operation, with subs for most installs

My total overhead including salaries, machine time, facilities, etc is $46.85/hr with 60hrs/wk operating time.

On average our material costs is less then 30% of our billed amount.

I'm an S-Corp and only pay taxes after expenses, my employment tax is less then 30% on $30,000 salaries.

Okay okay, i give up now. But read Gino's last post.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

There's no need to put those numbers up. In fact, do yourself a favor and edit them out. No one wants to see them.

While overhead, costs and local markets are indeed all different, the fundamentals are still the same. I think what most are having trouble with on this is, you don't hafta sell them that cheap. You can get much more and do less work. Why do 10 sets a week for $500 when you can do 3 sets, get the same money and have time to do something profitable ??

My old question is this...... would you want to do 10 trucks a week for $200 ea or 3 for a normal price and do far less work, use less material and have less headaches ??

That is the mathematical difference you mentioned. Less hours, less material, less overhead, less utilities and make the same if not more money, so perhaps your taxes would jump a little, but not enough to matter. If you played your cards right, you could do twice or 3 times the amount of work and triple your numbers. Would that make a difference in your bottom line ??

Yes it would, but I ask you this... Why turn away the work when almost 75% of the time I get a lot more profitable work from those clients. If I say I can't do it for those prices, they go to the next shop (there are 10 in my immediate area) and the rest of the work follows. To me the relationship with the client is worth more then massive profits on every job.

Case in point: I have a client, now my largest, that came to me 3+ years ago and asked if we could do 100 mesh fence banners 8' x 10' for $2.50/sq. At first I didn't want to take it, but we opted to do it and made about $2.00/ea fence banner. That client is now spending on average $300,000/year with us and we average 50% gross profit. All because we did something you guys are saying to turn away!

 

[player]

How does making more money and going from 60hrs per week to 40hrs sound?

 

[reQ]

So if only one customer brings you 300k per year, and u gross 50% from that, it will be 150k.... you net 600k as you mentioned above with total of 35% gross which is 210k. That means, another 300k makes you 60k?
Your numbers don't add up at all. I am confused A LOT now

 

[reQ]

And another thing - 2 man operation, with that kind of pricing net 600k yearly? Its probably 72 hour days in Arizona

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

So if only one customer brings you 300k per year, and u gross 50% from that, it will be 150k.... you net 600k as you mentioned above with total of 35% gross which is 210k. That means, another 300k makes you 60k?
Your numbers don't add up at all. I am confused A LOT now

Yes on the other work we make less. With our primary client I can shut the business down from November to February if I wanted to. So some work grosses high margins and other are loss leaders for more potential work, its how operate and it works for us. We went from $30k in 2009, to $100k in 2010, to $250k in 2011, to $500k in 2012, to $600k for the last 2 years. We are currently at $250k through the end of this month due to loss leaders last year turning into profitable work this year. Picked up more divisions of a large railroad company, the second largest mobile ATM company in the US, and now another fair operation out of Iowa.

It works for us, I dont expect you to understand as apparently its baffling to everyone here.

 

[reQ]

So, 2 man operation neted 250k sales in 1 months with total sales of 650 a year? Or you are planning to do 3mil this year?

Don't get me wrong. I am not a big sign company, i am a small business. But with every new post i get more & more & more confused. Well, maybe i am dumb, i don't know.

Wish you luck, i really do man

 

[sardocs]

We all must be comparing apples to animals here. I don't do all that many magnetic signs in an average month. Maybe two or three sets. I warn my clients about the downside of magnetic signs, like loosing them or just the fact they don't look like the business is serious enough to warrant permanent lettering. I'm kept busy year-round in my one person + wife business making a wide range of products. We carve 'em, we print 'em, we handpaint some and do a little pinstriping. As I mentioned in my other post I get $220 for a pair of 12x24 mags. That includes coming up with a design that the client and myself are proud to put on their vehicle. I don't do cheesy band-aid mags. I don't care if other shops in my area sell 'em for less or if they give them away free. Either do my clients, they come here looking for my work and my design skills. If I didn't have any I guess I'd have to give them away too.

 

[Jillbeans]

It's all good until the primary client finds someone even cheaper than your company.
There is no such thing as customer loyalty in our industry.
Never put all your eggs in one basket.