Suggestions 25K Budget what printer??

[BigfishDM]

http://h20195.www2.hp.com/v2/GetPDF.aspx/4AA4-6472ENW.pdf

 

[BigfishDM]

Its also $2,000 for a 48"x100ft of this stuff. My floor graphics with laminate included are under $750 for 54"x150ft. So yeah theres ONE or TWO materials on the market who offer this ability, but that is completely irrelevant if they can't compete cost wise. So 90% of films fit under the "need to be laminated" category and 10% (or less) fit under the "no need for laminate" category.

So I don't care what "new products" you are able to get or know about, but that is not a feasible cost in 90%+ of floor graphic jobs. Try bidding most jobs with that product, bet I get it before you...

Material cost is only about 20% of the job, everything else is time and labor FYI. If I pay more for my material but can produce jobs faster than you, that means I can turn out more jobs in a day than you can.

Why do you think these companies make these materials when they know the price is so much higher? Do you think these companies don't understand the market? If I can save time and labor, I am fine with paying more for a material. I don't have to pay for insurance and 401k for my materials lol.

 

[BigfishDM]

Its also $2,000 for a 48"x100ft of this stuff. My floor graphics with laminate included are under $750 for 54"x150ft. So yeah theres ONE or TWO materials on the market who offer this ability, but that is completely irrelevant if they can't compete cost wise. So 90% of films fit under the "need to be laminated" category and 10% (or less) fit under the "no need for laminate" category.

So I don't care what "new products" you are able to get or know about, but that is not a feasible cost in 90%+ of floor graphic jobs. Try bidding most jobs with that product, bet I get it before you...

That is also the material for ASPHALT graphics, the standard FLOOR graphics materials you can get for MUCH less than that. My UL Slip resistant FLOOR material is only $260 for 38"x150'

 

[BigfishDM]

Hello,

I would certainly go with a Latex based on the fact that none of the products produced would have to outgas. Not to mention, Latex inks would be the most durable in terms of those wanted applications. I work for one of HP's largest preferred distributors and can certainly give you a price on a brand new Latex in that ballpark!

Reach out if you would like to find out more about the promotions we are running. It would come with a full set of ink and free installation. I can be contacted via my email at Brian.Feeney@lexjet.com or via my direct line at 941-906-3108.

Have a great day!

Brian

Even though this guy isn't an MM on here, his company is pretty great and I have competed against them my whole career but even these guys are trying to tell you the same thing as I am.

HP PVC-free Durable Smooth Wall Paper: Save Time and Money | LexJet Blog

Great article about NOT LAMINATING wallpapers. Don't be mad, I am just trying to let you know what's out there. Feel free to laminate all you want but there are options that don't need it anymore.

 

[Gino]

It's tough being right, huh ??

I didn't mean to start anything by mentioning certain inks/media are or are not safe for children, but I know it's true. Times change and unless we all pay attention, you could be doing a major disservice to your customers, let alone to yourself for selling the wrong kinda stuff.

Something being expensive is no excuse for not using it..... or at least knowing about it. Like he said, the big guys know all about business and how to maneuver around in it. Time is more money than you think or realize. I call it 'Monkey-Time' The monkeys can do this, but I can get it done faster using XX material(s).

The kind of thinking being used here is like the thread from a few weeks ago. Because you can't afford a bucket truck to do certain jobs, you justify buying scaffolding, more man power, longer time-frame and more trips up and down ladders, than just buying a bucket and getting the job done in a fraction of the time. I go out at $185 an hour and you guys knock yourselves out for $65 an hour. I get it done in 1 or 2 hours and you guys are living high off the hog killing yourself for about twice what 'm getting, but I can do 2 or 3 jobs in one day, while you can barely get one done in a day.

Same thinking in this thread. ​

 

[qmr55]

Why do you think these companies make these materials when they know the price is so much higher? Do you think these companies don't understand the market? If I can save time and labor, I am fine with paying more for a material. I don't have to pay for insurance and 401k for my materials lol.

Actualy, yeah....I do think that is true. Maybe they don't understand the market. Hence why their material is...uhhh...not doing so hot on the market. (most have never heard of it) (I don't care about the one or two big guys)

 

[BigfishDM]

Actualy, yeah....I do think that is true. Maybe they don't understand the market. Hence why their material is...uhhh...not doing so hot on the market. (most have never heard of it) (I don't care about the one or two big guys)

Their material is selling more now than ever. These guys are one of the biggest specialty adhesive MFG out there, they understand the market very well. Not many companies open up multi-million dollar facilities if they are not doing well. At least in my experience, Jessup has been around since 1956. Anniversary

 

[Gino]

Actualy, yeah....I do think that is true. Maybe they don't understand the market. Hence why their material is...uhhh...not doing so hot on the market. (most have never heard of it) (I don't care about the one or two big guys)

Hahahaaaa........ that's what Hillary said.​

 

[Chase]

You can use any solvent or almost any dye sub flag on a Latex as long as you have the ink trough. We have run as thin as 110g fabric in our 360.

To semi defend BigFish, there are new textured wall and floor vinyls that do not require a laminate as the texture protects the ink. But in the environment you want to use your prints a liquid laminate with anti microbial, chemical, and abrasion resistance would be required. You would have to research the liquid lams that are hospital safe though.

Thats good to know 110g fabric do you find the print to be scratch resistant? I have had some prints rub off with pressure but they weren't latex.

I love the dye sub look but don't like the expensive heat transfer part. Is there an option that fits my 25k printer setup budget?

The ideal situation would be to print both wall covering and fabrics direct to the medias to avoid the heat transfer part of dye sub. Can this be done with Latex?

 

[BigfishDM]

Thats good to know 110g fabric do you find the print to be scratch resistant? I have had some prints rub off with pressure but they weren't latex.

I love the dye sub look but don't like the expensive heat transfer part. Is there an option that fits my 25k printer setup budget?

The ideal situation would be to print both wall covering and fabrics direct to the medias to avoid the heat transfer part of dye sub. Can this be done with Latex?

You could do that, but what is the application you're doing with the flag material exactly? You could always do 2 prints and sew together if you wanted a crisp image on both sides.

 

[HulkSmash]

Lol my advice is not bad, your understanding of the latest materials is just not where mine is yet I guess.

The wallpaper market I speak of is different than the Wall Graphics market. The HP PVC free wallpaper and other PVC free materials that the big guys use ARE NEVER laminated. Ask Astek Wall Coverings or MDC Walls how much they laminate wallpaper (Biggest Wallpaper Companies in our Industry) I am not talking about wall graphics in a restaurant. I am talking about doing general wallpaper jobs inside corporate offices and what not. Not only are those materials not being laminated anymore but are now transitioning to Grand Format Fabrics to do seemless 10' jobs. Guess what, they don't laminate 10' fabric so how do these guys do it???? Common, you are so smart and quick to call my advice bad, then please inform me how these guys do that stuff without lamination? Have you ever seen a M1/B1 fire rated laminate??? Please let me know when that exists.

Floor Graphics by Asphalt Art and Alumigraphics are just 2 key examples of materials that DO NOT NEED LAMINATION to be UL Slip Resistant. Every single MFG is now coming out with floor graphics material that DO NOT NEED lamination. Why is that?? Hmmmm, maybe because technology with ink is making it less of a need to use lamination? How many LONG term floor graphics vs. Short term floor graphics are you doing? Its probably skewed one way or the other i'm sure. Yes for a super long term application, you should lam it but most applications don't require long term.

Fabric graphics is in the conversation because if he is doing a lot of fabric then he doesn't need to laminate but you said you have to laminate everything.

The whole point is I can show ANYONE how to run a business on applications that require NO LAMINATION and will produce more profit than a company who focus on applications that do. You want to do decals for $2.00 sq.ft or do you want to do high end fabric for $12?

I go back and forth with some of you on here and understand I respect your opinions for the most part, but to tell me my advice is bad is kinds BS. I can talk smack with the best of them but I am here to genuinely help grow business.

lol. I mostly don't post here anymore because my time is occupied in growing our business, but another reason is because of all the bad advice people give on here to people who genuinely need good advice. And then you get jumped all over when you correct someone.

Ignorant comments like "The HP PVC free wallpaper and other PVC free materials that the big guys use ARE NEVER laminated." I just can't take you seriously.

"The big guys are using".......... Like everyone who disagrees with you are little guys, or i'm not qualified to understand? What do you consider big? Do you know how big I am, or others on here? I think i qualify as someone who understands this market more than most. I have every 3M application certification and training they have to offer from wraps to Dinoc, tons of staff and installers. How many employees or how many millions do i have to make to qualify as one of your " big guys"

You mention wall wraps being transitioned to grand format. I have A flatbed that does roll to roll that is grand format, and would never do a 10 ft panel. Last time i checked walls can be taller than 10 feet and wider than 10 feet. Not to mention Good luck shipping a 10ft tube of material. Also not to mention, good luck finding and installer who will install 1 10 ft roll. It's nearly impossible to handle with 1 person.

Then you mention how you can't laminate it. LOL. Dude seriously? Why the hell would you laminate fabric? Like come on. We're talking about vinyl, I think every industry professional knows you can't put a clear roll to roll laminate on fabric material.. ROFL.

Every material spec says it can survive without lamination, sure. technically it can. But as mentioned it's bad advice. I mean it's more annoying than bad because you're an industry professional, and you and all others shouldn't accept it. And your argument is hilarious for many reasons
You're mentioning materials that actually wouldn't even hold lamination.... like are you serious?

1. Floor graphics by asphalt art and and alumigraphics, Are tin foil, and will not hold a lamination.
2. Fabric? Really? As a one professional to another, you and everyone in this industry understands you can't put on PVC or vinyl lamination over fabric....

You're literally using the worse examples.

You mention Running a business without lamination can bring you more profit.. LOL
Running a business with no lamination will quickly cause you to lose clients and go out of business. PERIOD.

You won't win this one, i promise.

 

[HulkSmash]

Also - ij480 the worlds most used vinyl for textured walls and wall paper is PVC free.

I'd actually pay to see you install that without lam.

LOL

 

[HulkSmash]

Their material is selling more now than ever. These guys are one of the biggest specialty adhesive MFG out there, they understand the market very well. Not many companies open up multi-million dollar facilities if they are not doing well. At least in my experience, Jessup has been around since 1956. Anniversary

Not even close bud. That's a specialty product, for a niche market. So it might be #1 for its niche market, but not "one of the biggest" in the world overall for wall coverings.

you're ridiculous

 

[BigfishDM]

lol. I mostly don't post here anymore because my time is occupied in growing our business, but another reason is because of all the bad advice people give on here to people who genuinely need good advice. And then you get jumped all over when you correct someone.

Ignorant comments like "The HP PVC free wallpaper and other PVC free materials that the big guys use ARE NEVER laminated." I just can't take you seriously.

"The big guys are using".......... Like everyone who disagrees with you are little guys, or i'm not qualified to understand? What do you consider big? Do you know how big I am, or others on here? I think i qualify as someone who understands this market more than most. I have every 3M application certification and training they have to offer from wraps to Dinoc, tons of staff and installers. How many employees or how many millions do i have to make to qualify as one of your " big guys"

You mention wall wraps being transitioned to grand format. I have A flatbed that does roll to roll that is grand format, and would never do a 10 ft panel. Last time i checked walls can be taller than 10 feet and wider than 10 feet. Not to mention Good luck shipping a 10ft tube of material. Also not to mention, good luck finding and installer who will install 1 10 ft roll. It's nearly impossible to handle with 1 person.

Then you mention how you can't laminate it. LOL. Dude seriously? Why the hell would you laminate fabric? Like come on. We're talking about vinyl, I think every industry professional knows you can't put a clear roll to roll laminate on fabric material.. ROFL.

Every material spec says it can survive without lamination, sure. technically it can. But as mentioned it's bad advice. I mean it's more annoying than bad because you're an industry professional, and you and all others shouldn't accept it. And your argument is hilarious for many reasons
You're mentioning materials that actually wouldn't even hold lamination.... like are you serious?

1. Floor graphics by asphalt art and and alumigraphics, Are tin foil, and will not hold a lamination.
2. Fabric? Really? As a one professional to another, you and everyone in this industry understands you can't put on PVC or vinyl lamination over fabric....

You're literally using the worse examples.

You mention Running a business without lamination can bring you more profit.. LOL
Running a business with no lamination will quickly cause you to lose clients and go out of business. PERIOD.

You won't win this one, i promise.

I never said you were not big. I am sure you are very big. I am sure you know a lot about what you do also. I will stick by my comments though.

 

[BigfishDM]

Not even close bud. That's a specialty product, for a niche market. So it might be #1 for its niche market, but not "one of the biggest" in the world overall for wall coverings.

you're ridiculous

Sorry but their market share is getting bigger everyday. They do have a material for ASPHALT that is very expensive, but they also offer a whole line of material just for standard floor graphics also. I never said it was for wall coverings?

 

[BigfishDM]

Also - ij480 the worlds most used vinyl for textured walls and wall paper is PVC free.

I'd actually pay to see you install that without lam.

LOL

If I had to use 480 then I would laminate it.

 

[HulkSmash]

Sorry but their market share is getting bigger everyday. They do have a material for ASPHALT that is very expensive, but they also offer a whole line of material just for standard floor graphics also. I never said it was for wall coverings?

It doesn't change the fact it's a METAL PRODUCT THAT CANNOT BE LAMINATED. Like dude, you just need to stop.

And if you read what i wrote i was talking about your wall paper product that is called wall coverings in our professional industry.

 

[HulkSmash]

I never said you were not big. I am sure you are very big. I am sure you know a lot about what you do also. I will stick by my comments though.

I'm sure you will stick by your comments, especially after i pointed out you're 100% wrong in all aspects. Sounds like a good move.

Yeah sticking by your wrong comments after i corrected them. Great business move.

 

[BigfishDM]

You mention wall wraps being transitioned to grand format. I have A flatbed that does roll to roll that is grand format, and would never do a 10 ft panel. Last time i checked walls can be taller than 10 feet and wider than 10 feet. Not to mention Good luck shipping a 10ft tube of material. Also not to mention, good luck finding and installer who will install 1 10 ft roll. It's nearly impossible to handle with 1 person.

You should look into it lol.

 

[BigfishDM]

It doesn't change the fact it's a METAL PRODUCT THAT CANNOT BE LAMINATED. Like dude, you just need to stop.

And if you read what i wrote i was talking about your wall paper product that is called wall coverings in our professional industry.

Yeah, one of their materials is foil based, the one for ASPHALT. The others are not foil based.