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A request for help from a non-member

Discussion in 'Mimaki' started by Fred Weiss, Dec 6, 2013.

  1. Fred Weiss

    Fred Weiss Merchant Member

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    I received a request for technical help from an individual whose registration here I declined earlier today. He is not a sign or graphics pro but he question seems worthy of some response here if you are able.

    chagall-test1.jpg chagall-test2.jpg chagall-track1.jpg
     
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  2. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    Why don't you let him on as a guest who can post back and forth and then remove him say... after a week ?? Next week all the top professionals will be back from the Atlantic City Road Show and could probably help him and it just might benefit others here at s101 from answers and the overall whole discussion.

    Just a brief membership with the understanding of his being gone in a certain time frame.

    Probably not allow him to have any PM functions to make sure everything stays above board and out in the open.



    I think what he wants to do is marvelous and should have a little more help.
     
  3. Fred Weiss

    Fred Weiss Merchant Member

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    That's an interesting suggestion Gino. Not something, however, that I want to add onto my schedule of things to keep track of and do later.
     
  4. wildside

    wildside Very Active Member

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    it looks like they are using 2 different production modes for the printing of a sample compared to the full size run.

    the "tracks" are a media comp issue which most "turn and burn" printers could care less to address, i have no idea who the printer is, never heard of them...

    also notice the head movement is going different directions from the sample to the full size, they should print a sample at full size, just a cropped portion of it, and see how that turns out

    this issues is definately a printer issue, we can use two profiles on the same image and the colors will shift even more than that in some cases on our jv3.
     
  5. Bly

    Bly Very Active Member

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    You just want to welcome him don't you Gino?

    from Pa...................................................
     
  6. MikePro

    MikePro Major Contributor

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    yuck. so this is a print outsource that sends clean samples and then ships final product looking like that? Curious if it's related to one of our ongoing jv3 threads...

    demand a refund, and feed him to a merchant member.
    it's definitely a printer, and inconsiderate operator, issue. makes me sad.
    pretty sexy graphic tho'. i'd love to offer to print it, if only to get my hands on that file :)
     
  7. woolly

    woolly Active Member

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    He has a right to moan just poor printing feed rate or head issues.
     
  8. I agree with Wildside about getting a mag test/ cropped sample at 100%. I also think it's probably the printer and think if they output something like that as fine art prints they will likely just toss a slight gaussian blur on the blue sections and call it a day.
     
  9. LenR

    LenR Member

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    Duratrans?

    That art is so lovely it screams for a Duratrans.
    If there are no MM's that can do it then...
    Have him contact a pro color lab in Chicago.
    If there is none... Duggal in NY has been around forever and could knock it out on one of their Lightjets painlessly.
    My 2 cents
     
  10. MikePro

    MikePro Major Contributor

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    wait, i missed it.... aside from the "shoulda called a sign-guy" response, I should throw-out there that he could have simply gotten duratrans. prints w/lam along with the LEDsnapframe for like <$200 more.

    instead, he kicked some tires and most likely got prints from the lowest-bidder
     
  11. Pat Whatley

    Pat Whatley Major Contributor

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    ....or quite possibly he has no idea what he's doing and is blindly trying to figure out how to do it on his own. I've been doing this 25 years and I'd never heard of a Duratrans print (glad I have now)
     
  12. Asuma01

    Asuma01 Member

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    I would go local first. Tell him to call and visit his local print shops. That way he can assure he is getting the results he wants since he is a newbie.
     
  13. rjssigns

    rjssigns Major Contributor

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    THIS^^^^


    We print a translucent material for backlit displays that turns out incredibly beautiful using an older Roland SP.


    Sometimes people Google stuff and get stuck on the fact that someone/someplace famous is using it so it has to be good. Which all of us here understand is not always the case.
     
  14. Filmpro

    Filmpro New Member

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    Although it is difficult to tell from some low res images some information is obvious:
    1. The 'tracks' mentioned are visible is both the test print as the final result
    2. Distance between the tracks in the test print is much smaller than in the final result
    3. The colors in the final result are much darker
    4. The black lines in the final result are less sharp
    5. The final result has more magenta in it

    Based on this I think it is valid to say that both prints were made with different print resolutions (point 2) and different icc-profiles (point 5). The darker color and ragged black lines suggest settings used for the final result do not fit the media.
    The 'tracks' are simply caused by nozzles not firing straight which can be easily solved by proper cleaning of the heads.

    Good luck,

    Filmpro
     
  15. genericname

    genericname Active Member

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    Above posters are correct. Media comp and different profiles in use.

    I'll also add nozzle deflection to that list. It's evident in the final, finished print, as the gap from the media comp isn't the only unsightly pattern, there's also a concentrated overlap line you get when a nozzle is angled incorrectly, printing too closely to another one.

    TL;DR:
    1. Printer needs to adjust media comp, check their profiles, and replace a head before it costs them more refunds.
    2. Client needs to find a new printer.
     
  16. genericname

    genericname Active Member

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    YUUUUUP. :thumb:
     
  17. GB2

    GB2 Very Active Member

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    If it were anything else, I might have agreed too however, it's Fred and he has very clearly outlined the circumstances of the issue so if you think it's a waste of time simply move on. If you think that it is educational for us to examine the problem and hear everyone's solution, then it is another valuable experience from Signs101.

    I agree with the others and think that this is primarily a poorly maintained printer.
     
  18. gabagoo

    gabagoo Major Contributor

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    How do we know how the original files looked? Maybe I missed something here. If the original photos are really high res than a duratrans would definitely be the way to go. I did a series 48" x 72" duratrans many years ago for a snap frame light box for a cancer ward in a hospital and we worked off of slides. The pictures lit up like nothing I have ever seen digitally. The cost is well worth it if there is still anyone out there doing them.
     
  19. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    While on the subject, we recently lost our supplier for duratrans. I just wanted to order some last week, before this thread started and my supplier said his source dried up.

    Any suggestions as to where to get any ??
     
  20. gabagoo

    gabagoo Major Contributor

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    I think it is basically a photographic process. All I know is I gave them a slide (1" x .75" ? maybe) and they blew it up to 48 x 72 and it was just pure.....

    Here look at this
     

    Attached Files:

  21. MikePro

    MikePro Major Contributor

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    i woulda guessed that its just a fancy name for transluscent vinyl print.
    ...possibly even made more durable by applying 2nd surface to clear plexi/lexan or simply printed directly to it.

    edited: whoops, i'da guessed WRONG :) closeBUTnotGOODenough
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2013
  22. vid

    vid Very Active Member

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    The lightbox source company offers Duratrans as an upgrade. It is a more appropriate solution for that particular application, anyway.

    http://www.anythingdisplay.com/page/LED_Display/PROD/LED_SBM_24x36

    IMO, a the typical sign shop printer won't offer the density or color that I would expect to see in the Chagall work. Especially at close inspection --- as would more than likely be the case where the project is to be installed. I'd suggest the OP negotiate a "reprint" and bump it up to the good stuff.


    @Pat White / MikePro

    Duratrans is a tradename photo process on film for backlit applications. Like "kleenex," it's becoming a generic name for any backlit film whether photo process or printed.

    Search the forum for Duratrans --- like this thread, and you'll find some signs101 discussions about as it pertains to the professional sign industry.​

    There are manufacturers of backlit films, like Magcinkjet, that offer products for large format printing. These mimic the look of Duratrans, but may not always offer the performance in color gamut and density for demanding artwork. In reference to the OP's photo samples, I'd have a hard time trusting a printer to hit Chagall's blues accurately - CYMK blues are tough. But for typical sign display applications, it's a good fit if someone knows how to print it well.



    Edited to add:

    My only other concern about getting the film produced at the source company, would be having a discussion with them about the CYMK requirements the company has in the "Artwork Guidelines" section. I'd think submitting a CYMK image is going to blowout some of the subtle blues in the photo image. …that'd be a walk away for me if the company wouldn't take the RGB file.


     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2013
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