About Subscription Software...

[WildWestDesigns]

What about if the company closes the drm is removed? Like a dead man's switch. That way the software isn't bricked and the investment isn't lost.

I think that the most that one could hope for is that the company does something like Adobe did when the CS2 servers were going to go offline. Make it available that didn't require activation. Now, Adobe had some backlash to that as everyone took advantage of it, even those that didn't have legit CS2 licenses. So if they do it again for any future software going EOL, I would imagine that they are going to have some policy in place to prevent that.

Bare in mind, they are under no obligation to do so. No legally as far as I'm aware off in my non legal mind.

Now, if they are closing, probably wouldn't care all that much one way or the other.

If it isn't encumbered with licensing with other software vendors, you might get lucky and they release it open source (like Synfig Studio was). But if someone else's program is "baked in" to the software, I doubt that will happen.

Or maybe a model where the previous version is released as lump sum unsupported license with a cost that can be pro-rated based on how long someone paid into a sub during the releases lifespan? I dunno just spit ballin'. I know I would like to be able to buy the second most recent release of a lot of software but will never pay the sub.

I personally would like it if they would release a portable version and if they just have to in order to cover themselves, have a bin file that has the info of the original "owner" of the software and that bin file would be a required file in order to run the software. Won't necessarily be able to catch everyone, but they'll at least have a place to start as far as the originator goes with sharing it.

I could care less if it's technically officially supported. I've made 2 support calls in all my years of doing this and one was to see if they would release an extra seat for me to use since my computer crashed unexpectedly. Which for me is a good thing, since how I've been switching everything as of late.

 

[Pippin Decals]

It would be nice to try it for the 30 days without having to pay anything upfront and cancel if i dont like it . I will stick with Vector Magic.

 

[billsines]

I see a bigger issue at hand...for a lot of people, payments are the way to go. Payments on houses, payments on cars, payments on phones, payments on equipment, payments even on clothes (use the Kohl's credit card!). So payments on software, why not? There is this fundamental shift in the old fashioned notion of owning things outright. The idea of just owning something with no payments attached to it is pretty foreign anymore.

Doesn't it aggravate people to be indebted to a bunch of people? The old adage is still true: the borrower is servant to the lender.

I suspect with payments there is more profit to be had; otherwise, why would a software company go to a subscription model?

For me, yes, payments are necessary at times. Who has the cash to lay down on a house? But the thing is, real estate, by and large, should appreciate over time. Yes there's maintenance, but of all the things that have payments, real estate is the least egregious to me. The most egregious is a car. That thing is a piece of crap by the time you're done paying for it. And anymore, a $500 a month car/truck payment (I'm talking personal vehicles) isn't that big a deal to some. It's like you're just expected to take your place as a cog in the economy: make your payments till 65 then you can retire, then we'll pay you your monthly payments.

Even more egregious is software that you never really have paid off. Yes, I know, you never really "own" software. But it's the notion that, once I stop paying, I can't use the software anymore that makes me really mad. Or when my crappy internet company has another outage, all my Adobe fonts are gone until I can restore connectivity. That is beyond aggravating.

So humans will do what humans will do. For those that this aggravates, they will go to other software or figure out some other work around to keep that hard earned money in pocket. Some other start up company will develop something that doesn't have the high price tag. People will innovate, big companies will suffer, the world will keep spinning around...

 

[WildWestDesigns]

I see a bigger issue at hand...for a lot of people, payments are the way to go. Payments on houses, payments on cars, payments on phones, payments on equipment, payments even on clothes (use the Kohl's credit card!). So payments on software, why not? There is this fundamental shift in the old fashioned notion of owning things outright. The idea of just owning something with no payments attached to it is pretty foreign anymore.

Doesn't it aggravate people to be indebted to a bunch of people? The old adage is still true: the borrower is servant to the lender.

I suspect with payments there is more profit to be had; otherwise, why would a software company go to a subscription model?

Bare in mind, that this also costs more then just buying outright during the same lifespan. Like I said, 7 yrs and I would be spending more money on CC, then just buying outright everything that I needed from Adobe and it's been what 4 yrs now since they were exclusively CC?

And the biggest motivator that people were saying is that this makes Adobe costs less doing this method, when in reality, it may not. It didn't for me. It rarely costs less for the customer doing this method, unless said customer is using it for a short amount of time.

I always found it funny that Adobe's cost comparison stopped at 3 yrs.

So humans will do what humans will do. For those that this aggravates, they will go to other software or figure out some other work around to keep that hard earned money in pocket. Some other start up company will develop something that doesn't have the high price tag. People will innovate, big companies will suffer, the world will keep spinning around...

For me, this depends on if what they do as a workaround is on the up and up. I have quite the problem with how things stand now and people suggesting "cracked" copies and they actually expect a person to have a "cracked" copy of software, if nothing else for their home computer. I have far less sympathy for someone that said "I know it was wrong", but they did it anyway.

If you don't want to support a company in how they do things now, fine. Find a new vendor. Don't rip them off. I'm not saying that I agree with how things are, but until things change, that's the way they are.

 

[billsines]

Bare in mind, that this also costs more then just buying outright during the same lifespan. Like I said, 7 yrs and I would be spending more money on CC, then just buying outright everything that I needed from Adobe and it's been what 4 yrs now since they were exclusively CC?

And the biggest motivator that people were saying is that this makes Adobe costs less doing this method, when in reality, it may not. It didn't for me. It rarely costs less for the customer doing this method, unless said customer is using it for a short amount of time.

I always found it funny that Adobe's cost comparison stopped at 3 yrs.




For me, this depends on if what they do as a workaround is on the up and up. I have quite the problem with how things stand now and people suggesting "cracked" copies and they actually expect a person to have a "cracked" copy of software, if nothing else for their home computer. I have far less sympathy for someone that said "I know it was wrong", but they did it anyway.

If you don't want to support a company in how they do things now, fine. Find a new vendor. Don't rip them off. I'm not saying that I agree with how things are, but until things change, that's the way they are.

Yes, I don't consider a cracked copy or stolen software an acceptable "work around." For instance, for me, I have Adobe and Corel. I would consider going just Corel. Then not updating, just using this copy. If they go subscription only and force me into it, maybe another company will come up with other software that I can use. I'm mostly CNC, so maybe I'll push my design work to strictly Vectric. I prefer not to do that, I love proofing in Corel, but I'll see what happens down the line.

This can't work for everyone, I understand that. Some people can't live without Adobe, and if that's how you run your business or need to run your business, then do what's right for your business. But for me, I am always looking at ways to decrease expense. I learned long ago that you don't have to write a check to someone just because that is the "business norm." If I can accomplish the same thing for less money doing it a little differently, then I will. Not all my ideas work, but some of them have saved me tons.

I guess what I'm saying is that in the business world, the "norm" is, borrow money up to your eyeballs, make payments on all your equipment, pay your software subscriptions, pay for expensive service calls etc, etc, until all of a sudden, the freedom you wanted as a business owner is gone and you are slave to all your payments. Why be in business if you have to run yourself ragged just to get back to zero every month?

 

[SignsSupport]

I'm seeing a price-point of $15 /mo. billed monthly or $10 /mo. billed annually for Graphic Tracer Professional at Graphic Powers

We have decided to offer an opportunity to purchase a VIP Exclusive license for Graphic Tracer Professional. This is not a subscription! One price with free upgrades forever.

GTracer - I do not see the VIP Exclusive option.
Can you clarify what the price is?

SignsSupport

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

you have to fill out all the info then you will get posed a lifetime subscription option.

 

[SignsSupport]

you have to fill out all the info then you will get posed a lifetime subscription option.

Thing is ... I don't want to send my information without first knowing the price!
I think a lot of potential customers would have an issue with that as well.

SignsSupport

 

[TimToad]

I like the idea of subscriptions for the fact that its always updated. And for starting out its financially easier to subscribe to 3 $20 pieces of software than it is to purchase 3 $600 licenses.

Where people are coming from when they talk about "buying" software is that many shops buy a license, put it on their machine and use it for 10 years before thinking of upgrading.

The big advantage I see of purchasing a license over subscription is that once I stop paying the monthly fee I can no longer use the software that I have paid a lot of money into. If I purchased the full license I can use it as long as I have a compatible OS to run it.

Yeah, don't we all wish Adobe CS was $600 a year for three licenses. It's actually more like $2,400 a year.

 

[AKwrapguy]

Yeah, don't we all wish Adobe CS was $600 a year for three licenses. It's actually more like $2,400 a year.

How is Adobe $2,400.00 a year? Isn't their standard Adobe CC $50 a month for two licenses... so $600 a year? Am I missing something?

 

[shoresigns]

Adobe CC has more than enough new features to make it worthwhile for us. Sometimes they'll add a killer new feature, but often it's just little improvements that make our workflow so much easier.

1. Live corners
2. Typekit
3. Font search
4. Cloud Library
5. Asset Export
6. Variable fonts
7. Import EVERY PAGE of a PDF at once
8. Image cropping without clipping masks
9. Auto-resizing area type boxes

 

[Fred Weiss]

I was surprised to see that my Photoshop 5.1 will open a cc 2018 PSD file without complaint ... in case I ever decide to let my subscription expire.

 

[ikarasu]

Thing is ... I don't want to send my information without first knowing the price!
I think a lot of potential customers would have an issue with that as well.

SignsSupport

Price was $495 USD, unless they changed it. A little expensive for what it is.... but options are better than no options.

 

[TimToad]

How is Adobe $2,400.00 a year? Isn't their standard Adobe CC $50 a month for two licenses... so $600 a year? Am I missing something?

Ummm.... they have raised the prices a couple times since the days it was $49.99 for a single license that allows you to use it on two devices. Here's a screenshot of the monthly bill that just came. I don't ever remember it being the price for two users that you stated.

Sorry, not trying to argue, just showing what we pay for two full app users and one extra Illy user only.

 

[AKwrapguy]

Ummm.... they have raised the prices a couple times since the days it was $49.99 for a single license that allows you to use it on two devices. Here's a screenshot of the monthly bill that just came. I don't ever remember it being the price for two users that you stated.

Sorry, not trying to argue, just showing what we pay for two full app users and one extra Illy user only.

Cause you're on one of the business plans that include more bells and whistles like phone support, extra cloud storage etc.... Just individual Adobe CC that you can use on two machines is only $52.99.

 

[shoresigns]

Ummm.... they have raised the prices a couple times since the days it was $49.99 for a single license that allows you to use it on two devices. Here's a screenshot of the monthly bill that just came. I don't ever remember it being the price for two users that you stated.

Sorry, not trying to argue, just showing what we pay for two full app users and one extra Illy user only.

They've actually raised the single-user (with two devices) plan to $52.99. Your plan is Creative Cloud for Teams, which costs $79 per user. You could save $67/mo if you switch to three individual plans, but there are some perks that supposedly justify the extra cost for Teams.

Go here and click the Business tab for a breakdown of the perks you get with Teams vs. Individual plans.
Creative Cloud pricing and membership plans | Adobe Creative Cloud

 

[TimToad]

I see a bigger issue at hand...for a lot of people, payments are the way to go. Payments on houses, payments on cars, payments on phones, payments on equipment, payments even on clothes (use the Kohl's credit card!). So payments on software, why not? There is this fundamental shift in the old fashioned notion of owning things outright. The idea of just owning something with no payments attached to it is pretty foreign anymore.

Doesn't it aggravate people to be indebted to a bunch of people? The old adage is still true: the borrower is servant to the lender.

I suspect with payments there is more profit to be had; otherwise, why would a software company go to a subscription model?

For me, yes, payments are necessary at times. Who has the cash to lay down on a house? But the thing is, real estate, by and large, should appreciate over time. Yes there's maintenance, but of all the things that have payments, real estate is the least egregious to me. The most egregious is a car. That thing is a piece of crap by the time you're done paying for it. And anymore, a $500 a month car/truck payment (I'm talking personal vehicles) isn't that big a deal to some. It's like you're just expected to take your place as a cog in the economy: make your payments till 65 then you can retire, then we'll pay you your monthly payments.

Even more egregious is software that you never really have paid off. Yes, I know, you never really "own" software. But it's the notion that, once I stop paying, I can't use the software anymore that makes me really mad. Or when my crappy internet company has another outage, all my Adobe fonts are gone until I can restore connectivity. That is beyond aggravating.

So humans will do what humans will do. For those that this aggravates, they will go to other software or figure out some other work around to keep that hard earned money in pocket. Some other start up company will develop something that doesn't have the high price tag. People will innovate, big companies will suffer, the world will keep spinning around...

I agree with you on the limitations being overloaded with debt can create, but all in all, its the game that the entire economy is playing, so you're either in the game or frittering around the edges of it.

We have not found a better combination of design/page layout/image manipulation software than Adobe and find most of the newer updates useful, so its either go offline and use our older versions without all the newer updates or pay the piper.

On cars, it's mostly a function of planned obsolescence and vanity. Americans love new stuff and the sensation of that new car smell whether it makes them lose money on a deal or not. We have a 1998 Ranger XLT 4x4 with 194,000 miles on it and its worth nothing monetarily, but its in good running condition and the money saved on it helps pay a higher average wage to our employee than most or all of our competitors. Our errand, sales call, pickup/delivery and personal vehicle is a 2013 RAV4 with 70,000 miles on it with a few payments left on it at 0.9% and in excellent condition. We've done all the usual maintenance, put on one set of tires and just had the brakes done in 5 years and that's it. You get in, it goes and goes and goes. We once had a 4Runner that was still going strong when we sold it at 274,000 miles. You take care of stuff, it lasts. I can go to KBB or the other car value site and know if we wanted a new car tomorrow, this car would help lower the monthly payment substantially of the new purchase. We'd never buy a new car at any other time than when they are offering nearly 0% interest for the life of the loan. Our lifestyle is very intentional though, so we don't make a lot of uninformed or impulse purchases. Things we buy get researched, mulled over carefully and weighed before, not after.

To each his own and I'm not judging anybody who makes their way work for them.

 

[TimToad]

They've actually raised the single-user (with two devices) plan to $52.99. Your plan is Creative Cloud for Teams, which costs $79 per user. You could save $67/mo if you switch to three individual plans, but there are some perks that supposedly justify the extra cost for Teams.

Go here and click the Business tab for a breakdown of the perks you get with Teams vs. Individual plans.
Creative Cloud pricing and membership plans | Adobe Creative Cloud

Thanks to both you and AKwrapguy. I'm on it tomorrow. I can count the times we've used those added business features on one hand.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

We have not found a better combination of design/page layout/image manipulation software than Adobe and find most of the newer updates useful, so its either go offline and use our older versions without all the newer updates or pay the piper.

I agree that you can't beat Adobe's combination of programs and how they work well between each other, even ones that they bought from other companies and integrated into their own ecosystem.

Ironically, it's the CC that turned me off of Adobe. I'll use CS6 (and older) versions thru VMs before I go to CC (having migrated off Windows (and I wouldn't be willingly caught dead with a Mac)) I have gone to other programs on my main OS (even digitizing, which was my last hold out for Windows).

I do have one lucky aspect in my favor, I actually don't have to be up to date on Adobe stuff as I don't get outside Adobe files for even 5% of the time. Probably closer to 1%. Not everybody has that ability though. I do have other programs that can read those newer files and export them to a file that I can use in my legacy software.

I don't have a problem with paying the piper (the main stay of my business, digitizing, the full fledge programs run around $15k if you don't play the trade in, trade up game). Some people, subscriptions work great (the more short term you are, the better), but I do find them from a customer perspective, abhorrent in the long term.

As far as offline goes, if it's a production computer, I firmly believe that it should be offline regardless. There are a lot of issues (a lot are posted on here as well) that could be mitigated by not being online.

 

[Johnny Best]

That's why I switched to Affinity Designer and Photo. Also ON1. You have a one time payment and upgrades without the monthly fees. Stopped at Adobe CS6 for Illustrator and Photoshop. I refuse to lease programs except for SignCut that I paid a 5 year user fee for.