Rant acting before thinking

[pinkiss]

As most can see im new member in this community based in Ire, few months back decided to get in vinyl cutting and got myself roland gs 24 and heat press 2k with all the vinyls invested, but ive basically done 0 work towards sales, im getting into social media - seems plenty of people doing similar work, my main idea was designing and cutting vinyl for application on vehicles etc for advertisement for others, but now i see this massive shift where people dont even bother with vinyl and do print on vinyl, its nice but cost of equipment is massive on that so, im still designing my portfolio, but i dont have any business background, im IT tech so hardware software is easy game for me, took less then couple weeks to transition from Photoshop to AI, but in general i dont see any interest im on trades local trades groups, buy and sell, motor groups but its like either most people have they go to shop or arent even bothered with vinyl signs decals.I cant say how things are state side, but where im based theres couple large companies that cater majority of businesses if not main to for all, grand im away just less then hour from capital but that just puts me rest with other sign makers.

I dont know i probably jumped a gun at idea of being able to do signs and customers some how will show up, but last month or so ive been totally idle with my head just all over the place as started web site design which, doing portfolio, and advertising on facebook etc, im not throwing in towel yet, but just seems nowadays anyone can afford to get signs done for them, by knowing some friend of a friend with a plotter. I got good year left to figure out what direction i want to take and do love when i get to design print weed cut as it keeps me busy, but to be fair didnt expect that it will be such a slow grind as i can do designs but printing them is just wasting material, would that be a normal start since im operating from home i have almost 0 overheads but no customers either, did approach few garages but it was like they were just trying to get by themsleves kind of talks.
Now im not completely dumb to think that because i have equimpment i will be straight off printing cash and getting works, but dunno something needs to change but as said im crap as business since been in retail and have pushed down people with products being on the other side but now im the one who can do, but cant get anyone for to, as looked at ebay which seems just pitifull, locally theres others doing simillar jobs and massive prints shops that have record of 20-30 years established, as i cant get any interest, not sure if its poor advertising as ive no prices i tell what i do and throw in design example on vans etc, and leave contact info for details if anyone wants to get in touch, but even small groups like to just spam out where my ad gets lost in few hours, not to be probably be seen again.

Anyway enough rant just want to hear how other people that started have found it at first, i know those in business for 10-20 years will have completely different circumstances and issues that they had compared to more fresh starters.

 

[Johnny Best]

Maybe you should do some free advertising. Do someone's truck for free and let them put your name on the side for others to see.You're just going to do something nice or different because like you have found out that every Tom, Dick and Harry can either do it themselves or order off the internet. Set up on Etsy like that mother who is trying to sell her company on here was doing, she makes $80,000 US a year and also raises kids on the side. Good Luck.

 

[AKwrapguy]

she makes $80,000 US a year

That thread is bullshit. She did $80,000 in sales in a year and now wants to sell it, cause life got to hard. I think that she did the numbers with her accountant (that's probably a friend) and found out that she was only making $20,000 off that $80,000 decided it wasn't worth it and now wants to recoup the money she wasted.

As far a Pinkiss..... first off let this be a lesson learned. If you had to do it all over again what would you do differently? One thing to look at is your closest geographical area. Look at talking to a business that would need your service. A prime example would be a distributor of some sort. Many are independently owned and are in the need of vehicle wraps or POS.

Also go talk to dealerships for vehicles, ATV's, Motorcycles etc... Some dealerships will take a stock vehicle and dress it up with new tires, lift kits, extra bells and whistles. Talk to them about adding some custom graphics, like their logo on it or racing stripes. If they're reluctant, tell them you will co-op it with them (meaning you won't get paid till they sell it). Many dealerships use banners.

Do a few free vehicles for your friends and your own ride, take some pics and post them on social media and your website.

Yes it's a grind, but don't give up.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Don't underestimate the power of a Google listing.

 

[pinkiss]

oh hell i love alaska anchorage :] just off the bat Ireland is nothing compared to US, whole concept of vehicles here is so bland and poor that people buy bland stock, as taxes go for anything past1.8l engines its almost non existent there no such word as trucks, euro lorries at best,no semi-s etc,plenty of ford transits who do sole trade building etc businesses and mostly bmws and mercs for few that can afford to pay extra for 2l engined car on tax insurance. Thou suggestion on getting signs on more cars is good idea,as for dealerships did logos for friends garage paid job etc, just another day seen that local car dealership got same concept knock off on some car they sold of course they put similar design and name on it, and my friend did refer me to them as they would get their cars fixed there but shows how someone can knock off smth like that fast, so dunno as felt a bit crap seeing someone getting similar idea but it wasn't my work, so yes hitting another dealerships sounds actually quite good but as example that i just gave thinks in me that they could easily take few and then use their own plotter or sign service provider- as bigger ones def have some laying around for number plates and what not.

Anyway im still on contract IT job till September and applied for business grant to have as safety net for first year which means i get 200$ a week with no strings attached before business kicks in, also will have entire living room spare in few weeks that will be fully converted to workshop as atm plotter is in my bedroom with 0 space to work and store everything in professional matter.

Now you asked what i would do differently, think i would of spent little less money and bought similar Roland plotter not sure of model quite new but its to bridge gap between commercial and hobbyist ones sort of middle between gs/gx and cameo or shilloute costs like 800e so half the price, thou money isnt really a concern as used my savings so its sort of personal purchase and nothing that id sweat about, as its not 20k investment of the bat, but def cheaper plotter which basically can do most work either seems like would been better idea, then committing to more industrial grade one.

 

[ikarasu]

For the graphics you plan on doing, sadly a $200 plotter will work just as good as a $6000 plotter. Which means your competing against not just sign professionals, but hobbyists.

We buy in bulk at my work, we save 25-30% off materials than new shops .It's hard to compete with someone who has a machine that can do the work twice as fast, and at 30% of the cost, as well as sell you all the other signs your company needs.

We just won a bid on a contract for $85,000, $12,000 over the next lowest bidder. We won because our shops been in business for 40+ years, we have an established good reputation... And we can handle the volume. It's not always about who has the better price...

Your disadvantage is you don't have much experience, no clientele, you have no store front, and your machines are very limited in what you can do.

This is why most banks won't give a loan unless you have a concrete plan - a lot of people throw away money becauae they think if they purchase a machine, the work will follow it. Which is almost never the case.h IIthink youre right, and you should have thought everything out before acting.

But the past is the past. What do you plan on doing to fix your mistakes? I'm sure 99% of people here don't know how things are in Ireland, and every market is different... So what works here, doesn't always work there.

For instance... Let's look at that 80k shop. Online Shops may work in America.. but I sold a 24" decal in Canada, it cost me almost $25 just to ship it a couple.coties away. I could have driven 15 minutes to USA, then shipped it back to Canada for a flat $15 rate. The Canada rate was a 20% off business account, while.the us rate was regular postal rates.

You should.sit down, put a lot of thoight into what you want your business to be, how you plan on getting it there, and then decide if it's feasible or a dream.

 

[pinkiss]

Well reading your post i was like oh %^&&k your correct on all points to be fair, should of got smth like silhouette and went from there, shipping costs are almost if not the same what you mention, and your correct someone with established name and volume+ hobbyists alike its like hitting brick wall, we all know its been around for long time and many places and people nowadays can do it themselves or find it cheap who will do that for them be it friends ebay etc.
Ive still to visit local enterprise center where you get to meet starters and investors and people with connections to get guidance and help, but as you say its prob better to look at reality and think if its even feasible or worthwhile.Since random jobs can be got but they wont pay the bills nor be feasible long term and at best i will be like another dick and harry, guess if it comes to worst i can take hit on keeping the equipment as theres no real loss, and think about getting next job down the line and keep it as a hobby.

 

[equippaint]

You have to hustle work plain and simple. Hit the streets, do your legwork. You will not get anywhere sitting at home posting on social media or running ads on google. Cut vinyl business is alive and well but its not going to jump through the computer screen looking for you.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

When I first started, I did a phonebook ad and google ad and it took a while to start seeing a response.... but my first jobs came in DAYS after I opened because of knocking doors!

 

[pinkiss]

your correct and didnt add final sentence there is business out there specially here in Ireland as housing market is booming so many traders turning to building supplying, but before i see it, they have all the signs they need, startups was my initial thinking to get to first, but when i think now people who start usually are ones who try to keep it tight. I can split computer hardware inside out, spin out servers and networks but that comes with 20yrs of grinding and learning IT side, since i can sit on an issue for 3 days straight non stop, but put me on business side and im no husler, nor trader, i love graphics and possibilities and am not new to it,but it was always my free time hobby, which with honest critique here i think should of stayed that way, as two sectors are very different and one im really good at while another is like baby steps again.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

im no husler

This could be a problem for someone who wants to be a full time sole trader

 

[player]

Cut vinyl.. hmmm... 1990 wants their plotter back.

 

[James Burke]

Cut vinyl.. hmmm... 1990 wants their plotter back.

Let me be the first to break the high-tech trend, but long live the 90s! I'm running a 1992 Gerber GS and it cranks out monument stencil like an overly fertile cash cow.

At the moment, I have almost two-thousand sandblast stencils ready to go on paving bricks, and the fun is just getting started.

Hello...the monument industry is having an absolute heyday with "old tech"...especially newbies and bootstrapped startups. There are definitely more barriers to entry than the etsy/ebay/swap-meet vinyl vendor, but the field isn't so crowded (or bloody) and the payoff is definitely worth it.

As for you, Pinkiss....hang in there. I started out thirteen years ago with a borrowed plotter and a big dream...my dream. Don't let anybody take your dream from you.


JB

 

[ikarasu]

If you really WANT it to work, stick in there. If it's a passion, go for it. If you think you're going to get rich right away, or it's not going to be a ton of long hours / a lot of effort, thats when I'd suggest giving up.

You can ask anyone here, and I'm sure 99% of them will say their business did not come easy. Most people here put in 80 hour work weeks when they were starting their business, and it seems like some still do.

You dont have a sales rep... So you'll have to go out and find work. You can't wait for it to come to you, because it never will. All them new building signs you want, but you're always too late to get... You want wait until a new project starts and try to get it. Go to the construction builders... Tell them what you can offer them. Meet with the guy who makes the decisions face to face, and tell him why he should hire you, over the other guy who's been his sign guy for xx years. 99/100 of the people you talk to will probably blow you off because they have an established company doing signs for them... But that 1 guy will be your new client, and so long as you do good work and the price is right...you have yourself a stable client. The main problem is most of these jobs that you've mentioned so far... At least in my neck of the woods use printed graphics. Construction sites typically use 4x8's with printed graphics, sometimes 2x 4x8's to make 8x8s. I just got a job for 10 8x8 signs... If I wasnt able to print/laminate, apply the vinyl... install the signs 10 ft in the air, I wouldnt have got the job. And sadly... if all I had was my plotter, I couldnt do 99% of that stuff.

You need to invest more, find someone you can outsource to who has a printer and will give you wholesale pricing... or think of a niche market you can hit with your cutter.

You CAN make money and continue to persue it... you just need to put a lot of work and effort, sweat and blood. Running your own business is 10X harder than working for someone else and getting a stable paycheck. It's also way more stressful... Everyone thinks they can just buy some equipment and make as much as their boss's are, but they don't understand how business's work, and most fail.

You went into it without a plan, without the knowledge you should have... But it's not too late to still try and get to where you need to be in order to be successful.

 

[player]

If you really WANT it to work, stick in there. If it's a passion, go for it. If you think you're going to get rich right away, or it's not going to be a ton of long hours / a lot of effort, thats when I'd suggest giving up.

You can ask anyone here, and I'm sure 99% of them will say their business did not come easy. Most people here put in 80 hour work weeks when they were starting their business, and it seems like some still do.

You dont have a sales rep... So you'll have to go out and find work. You can't wait for it to come to you, because it never will. All them new building signs you want, but you're always too late to get... You want wait until a new project starts and try to get it. Go to the construction builders... Tell them what you can offer them. Meet with the guy who makes the decisions face to face, and tell him why he should hire you, over the other guy who's been his sign guy for xx years. 99/100 of the people you talk to will probably blow you off because they have an established company doing signs for them... But that 1 guy will be your new client, and so long as you do good work and the price is right...you have yourself a stable client. The main problem is most of these jobs that you've mentioned so far... At least in my neck of the woods use printed graphics. Construction sites typically use 4x8's with printed graphics, sometimes 2x 4x8's to make 8x8s. I just got a job for 10 8x8 signs... If I wasnt able to print/laminate, apply the vinyl... install the signs 10 ft in the air, I wouldnt have got the job. And sadly... if all I had was my plotter, I couldnt do 99% of that stuff.

You need to invest more, find someone you can outsource to who has a printer and will give you wholesale pricing... or think of a niche market you can hit with your cutter.

You CAN make money and continue to persue it... you just need to put a lot of work and effort, sweat and blood. Running your own business is 10X harder than working for someone else and getting a stable paycheck. It's also way more stressful... Everyone thinks they can just buy some equipment and make as much as their boss's are, but they don't understand how business's work, and most fail.

You went into it without a plan, without the knowledge you should have... But it's not too late to still try and get to where you need to be in order to be successful.

Really well said.

Another issue is inventory.

If you buy a colour printer, they use inks just sitting. Then they use caps and sometimes dampers. A head strike is in the $1,000's. So if you drop $20K on one, it will cost more than the loan or lease.

 

[ams]

Sub out a lot of your signs, use wholesalers for printed stuff and mark it up. then one day you can afford to expand and get better equipment.

 

[astro8]

Forget etsy, ebay and vehicle signage as your main market...
The money for vinyl cut signage is in shops, businesses, offices and through shopfitters.
Trading hours signage, simple directional stuff, lightbox panels, door name plates, wall graphics, window graphics, directory changes, frosted vinyl, small sign boards, stuff like that. Vehicle signage requests will eventually come through the these people and you can charge real prices.
If you really want it and stick at it, it will eventually come about.

 

[pinkiss]

i know someone who does head stones and a single plotter kept them well and alive in business for over a decade now, as opposed to traditional letter carving in the stone but thats just a help tool doing final product where plotter comes in handy.

So reading all comments i see that current trend is print and laminate on vinyl, thou my problem is ive had plenty of color printers worst being epson home one 3in1 yoke that was an ink drain, used to drink ink like no tomorrow, since it would reefed ink every time it would power up, nozles would clog often, eventually fed up and use it now just as a scanner, got simple hp laserjet A4 black and white printer and in two years have spent less then 30$ on few cartridges since no clogs, print ready in minutes, can work endlessly cartridge would last up to 1k A4 pages and dirt cheap, could be left for months and switch on and wont be a blemish of any issues concerning print quality or clogs.but as i understand there has to be special laserjet and vinyl to be able to print on vinyl and ink to stick to it.

Since i see thats major equipment that id need and in the future id be able to fork out 600$ for second hand one but dunno reading some comments here on 101 seems like printers are far away from being reliable if you get people having issues with rolands etc that cost well over 10k that doesnt inspire me any confidence and let alone knowing ink costs like gold dunno what to watch out for, since vinyl signs might be outdated but they are used everyday and everywhere, i get that printed one looks nice, but im way to far in the future to jump onto that band wagon yet, as simple designs 2-3 colors look the deal if done right and dont need to break a bank with all the gradients, only downside i know i cant do any printed graphics,which im sort of good at where painting comes in, but again im just trying to start and not really looking to do 5-10 foot flat printed vinyl signs.

And really appreciate all the comments people made, i realize this isn't get equipment ant start pumping cash, there's far better ways to make money more easy, as i stated i did few print jobs nothing big but detailed and spend 8 hours flat out to make it as good as possible, weeding each tiny letters,cutting into perfect strips and since it was my first run i was tad scared doing 2 feet 70 decals on single go and sitting 8 hours just weeding was nothing but pleasure, some might see as burden but thats not even work in my books from what actual real work ive done over the years, i do lack business side but im definitely not the one to whine when needing to put in time into something.

 

[James Burke]

Visit this site http://azglassclasses.com/portal/ and take a look around at some of the jaw-dropping projects done with the assistance of a plotter.

Here's direct link to the member photo gallery http://azglassclasses.com/Gallery/

If you can scrounge up a modest sandblast cabinet, there's a lot of profitable things your plotter can do outside the typical vinyl market. If you have a friend who owns a sandblast cabinet, take him/her a 6-pack and knock yourself out.

Stainless steel tumblers, glass, natural stone, polished stone, chrome parts, etc..the world is a much larger canvas than you realize.

 

[ams]

I have a sandblast cabinet and do this stuff. Only $800, easy market to get into