Rant acting before thinking

[James Burke]

...easy market to get into

As with many markets, entry is relatively easy nowadays. Profitability and sustainability are another story all together.

There's a fine line between diversification and distraction, and with all the add-on markets out there, one needs to be judicious when pulling the trigger on something new.


JB

 

[pinkiss]

JB well said, since i know who does it in my family sandblasting is part of way bigger thing, its being stone mason, carver, able to lay foundations sourcing granite, i wouldn't call it easy to get into, a lot of real proper hard work goes before that blaster and vinyl get applied for final touches. Its finding that one niche and market that you can start off is the real hard kicker, and true leg work and grind thats what i need to work, as jobs for 10-50$ is just a hobby that most can pull but to make it sustainable its full time commitment thats required and i have to twist my head around it and pull my head out of a$$ to get out there and start thinking who can i approach and what can i offer, on constant basis.

 

[shoresigns]

If you want to be a neighbourhood sign shop, you need a large format printer, a plotter and a laminator, which enables you to cater to all your local businesses.

If you want to run a plotter-only business, you need a completely different mindset in terms of your target audience and your sales/marketing. As others have hinted at in this thread, you need to find the niche businesses that need a lot of cut vinyl, like car dealerships, monument engravers, racing stripes on motorcycles/snowmobiles/etc. One of our odd niches here in Vancouver is we do a fair bit of cut vinyl for ship builders.

Also, your regular clients are still going to ask you for jobs that require printed vinyl from time to time, so you'll still need to find a trade vendor you can outsource it to.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

All I have is a plotter but I can sell most signs other than electric. You can outsource printing easily, and dimensional letters. Outsource banner and yard sign production. Rent lifts to do larger signage. You don't have to buy and own all that stuff to do it.

 

[Gino]

A few questions for ya, pinkiss. Be honest with yourself, because you're not gonna hurt anyone but yourself, by trying to fool us.

What are you good at doing in the sign/graphic business ??
Can you design knock out graphics ??
Can you do really nice layouts ??
Do you have a real good grasp on fonts, elements and placement ??
Are you good at working a plotter.... or a printer ??
Do you have the space to expand, if things suddenly take off ??
Do you have anyone lined up to help, should you get busy ??
Can you talk the talk with someone if they are interested and wanna talk turkey with you ??
What is your target audience ??

Obviously, you have no business plan in motion..... or you wouldn't be in this fix. So, do you have someone to sit down and talk with about your plans ??​

 

[James Burke]

Its finding that one niche and market that you can start off is the real hard kicker.

For those who jump into a market totally unrelated to their background (which is what I basically did), finding your exact niche will take time...and of course, money...and a lot of hard work. It essentially feels like the "eternal waiting" that a sky diver experiences after jumping out of a plane until the moment the parachute safely opens.

You can't steer a parked car. It has to be in motion. That's the way it is with a start up business. You need to make an effort to get the wheels turning first (even if slowly) , and then steer the business where you begin to see the most profitability. Sometimes that means steering in a direction that is beyond your comfort zone. But then again, the "uncomfortable zone" is where many entrepreneurs absolutely thrive.

Ambiguity, downright uncertainty and sleepless nights are a good part of the gig.

Remember...that first paid invoice will be the most rewarding, no matter how small. (Unfortunately, my very first customer's check bounced but they made it right with me. And, on that job, I scrapped out the project four times before getting the fifth one right...oh, the memories).

JB

 

[ams]

As with many markets, entry is relatively easy nowadays. Profitability and sustainability are another story all together.

There's a fine line between diversification and distraction, and with all the add-on markets out there, one needs to be judicious when pulling the trigger on something new.


JB

That is correct. Cheap equipment start up, but making it profitable takes time or doesn't happen.

 

[pinkiss]

some good questions there Gino that need a lot of thought before i can answer.

 

[Johnny Best]

Have you thought about getting a job in a sign company and see how it works. Then maybe you can start getting your own customers to go out on your own. Or, come to the US and get a job.

 

[JTBoh]

You're trying to break into a tough business, with outdated equipment that won't allow you to compete. That's the crux.

If I was in your position... I'd probably start by making a brand. Not your brand, mind you.

I'd start by picking a local favorite product family (ex. Whiskey!), area, or activity - make sure that it's not anything that would get you sued. Then build social media groups around it. Design a nice, one color, easily weeded logo for the group. Maintain rights to it. Build up a base. Then; start selling the decals. If you're lucky, it'll go viral and everyone will want one. Don't be afraid to be a little cheeky; if you think a lot of people hate your town, make the group "(TOWN) Sucks", if it has a name that can easily be altered to the local derogatory nickname, (ex. Baltimore into Bodymore). Play off of other people's predetermined perceptions that are already rooted in place.

Once and if it takes off, and hell, I'd do 5 or 10 all in the same theme, sell the stickers online AND at local head shops, etc., crosslink all the pages, and profit. Goal is to make a sticker that people want to put on their vehicle.

If you have enough to expand, buy a da** printer and become a real sign company, lol.

 

[Billct2]

There's still plenty of work that can be done with cut vinyl. Go out and take a your "portfolio", business cards and work order/contract form. Hit all the shops that have crappy looking/old signs and offer to update them.

 

[pinkiss]

I was reading JTBoh post since hes second person to mention like vinyl cutters are out of date, but to be fair its bad i dont have pics taken, here in ire 90% of any signs decals i see have 1-3 colors at best specially on vehicles id say 90% are just plain vinyl 1-2 colors, another 10% would be top grade wrap shop print and wrap job that would easily run 1k on a van, same with logos and lettering on them, all are done so simply that prob 10 min sketch looking at one would be enough to get exact match,hell even coach buses length aside i see them and only trouble id imagine is getting smth 20m long cut would be the only issue, sure every shopping center has these huge billboards printed but thats business for someone who has at least 100k invested and full garage/studio shop 3-5 people on payroll to do at least 2-5 meters length prints, so its a bit nuts i get having possibility to print graphics straight onto vinyl is nice and good but maintenance for printers ink, having constant supply for orders and keep it running, dunno its not startup league even if someone had that much spare cash to get 10-20k printer cutter id feel sorry for the person doesn't matter where they based if they would start with such a lump of cash when returns prob would take years to recoup not to mention competition,as now even if i had print cut it would be worse as id be ton of cash down and prob competing with shops that have 5 machines like that, as theres demand for printed decals but its really low, to constitute need for large format printer, dunno maybe some A3 size would prob be more then sufficient for decals, but even at that im not sure how much cost it would run up towards ink and maintenance just to have one.

Same with lettering most are cut out wood or in most cases aluminum so thats easily 20k machine for work that gets done rarely.

Grand i dont know much of US but population wise towns here are 30-50k people max capital having about close to a milll, and each small town having at least 2-3 industrial full grade shops its tight market to be in, where in US id say numbers are more like 300k per city so thats whole different balance.

Current trend here now is magnetic signs that people can pop off their vans which is interesting but not sure if its only print and laminate or possible to do with vinyl/heat press combo - as had an offer to do one but blew it off as guy was a cheapskate just looking to get it done free.

 

[shoresigns]

Current trend here now is magnetic signs that people can pop off their vans which is interesting but not sure if its only print and laminate or possible to do with vinyl/heat press combo - as had an offer to do one but blew it off as guy was a cheapskate just looking to get it done free.

You can do vehicle magnets with cut vinyl. Not sure why you would need a heat press for magnets, but since you've brought it up, that's an inexpensive piece of equipment you could add to your business if you want to do textiles.

 

[pinkiss]

i think i mentioned that i did get one, yes its inexpensive and quite handy good for ironing stuff as well :] as mentioned took a look at one done, and it seemed straight and laminated thus been a bit confused as guy told me his company got it done and it was 6 panels all together simple design but laminate threw me off as not sure if really thin vinyl and laminated on top for extra protection.

 

[shoresigns]

i think i mentioned that i did get one, yes its inexpensive and quite handy good for ironing stuff as well :] as mentioned took a look at one done, and it seemed straight and laminated thus been a bit confused as guy told me his company got it done and it was 6 panels all together simple design but laminate threw me off as not sure if really thin vinyl and laminated on top for extra protection.

If it were laminate overtop of cut vinyl, you would have been able to see it, and feel it. If that's really what it was, that's probably a sign of someone who has no clue what they're doing. Cut vinyl doesn't need laminate.

 

[ikarasu]

i think i mentioned that i did get one, yes its inexpensive and quite handy good for ironing stuff as well :] as mentioned took a look at one done, and it seemed straight and laminated thus been a bit confused as guy told me his company got it done and it was 6 panels all together simple design but laminate threw me off as not sure if really thin vinyl and laminated on top for extra protection.

We have magnets with a printable layer in a roll. we print on them all the time... We don't laminate them, but I'm sure some people do to extend the life.

My suggestion to you is talk to some of your local shops. Ask them to give you A discount if you outsource all your printed graphics to them. We have many, many customers who are sign shops who come to us because we have unique equipment. We also goto other shops when we need something done we can't do in house. If you were a 1 stop sign shop, you'd spend millions on machines that can do everything. Just because you dont have a printer doesn't mean you can't sell printed signs... see what your local companies would charge you, get out there and start selling for 30-40% above what they charge. Save up all the money until you can buy your own machines.

 

[JTBoh]

Mr. Pink -
If only 10% are doing printed vinyl, sounds like you can make a killing by changing the print culture of your area. Word of mouth is the most important part of marketing, period. It's like having your own private salesforce. People talk about quality, and if no one else is offering it, it gives you something close to a monopoly.

 

[pinkiss]

out of interest did anyone open up google maps and took a look what sort of graphics is used in Ireland since my last post, id say open google maps and tell me how much printed graphics you see as opposed to just vinyl and general signs, theres a good reason most opt for 2-3 colors then going to full fledged body print shop to get vehicle wrapped, as cost between the two is almost couple 00s.

 

[Johnny Best]

Mr. Pinkiss, for all the chatter on here and your responses, you could have been out looking for some work to do.
Sandwich boards might be a good place to start or make some nice Open/Closed signs with a suction cup and go door to door in the town's business district and introduce yourself and try to sell some signs. Maybe even some little signs by the cash register that states, Thanks for your business. A sign for your place of getting a pint, "In God we trust all others pay cash". Anything that produces money, because you are not making anything on here listening to us.
And, like I said before, go get a job in a sign company, some of the people giving you advice on here are employees of sign shops. You will learn about the sign business real fast of what can be accomplished and what cannot.

 

[pinkiss]

good advice Johhny Best im not in sign business officially yet thou, not registered as any trader and still got job,so another month to really decide which direction i will take. Equipment i have is no harm as it can serve me well personally and hardly devalues, but as another member posted all the business questions what i can do and not, a lot of them would fall into cant or dont have enough experience, so not ruling out possibility that ill be working something else and sign business will be just a hobby.As need stable cash coming in and dont want to tap into my savings to pursue a dream which i realize now is tapped out as a startup idea, as it might seem im here often but its not signs that keep my bills paid,and allows me to be online.