after linear bearing replaced I get error 0050 and 0040

[appstro]

Ok fist let me start by stating the facts here. Printer has been working fine with the occasional motor error due to carriage bearings going bad.
08/2012 replaced tool linear bearing, encoder strip and scan motor (roland tech installed motor)

I replaced the carriage linear bearings myself. After doing limit initialization and doing a few test prints it seemed to be working OK with the exception of the black head kind of messy due to some accidental handling during bearing install

next morning I go to print and did several small jobs.
Then I went to do a print and the head moves out about 10 inches and bam motor error 0050 0040
Double checked everything and chalked it up to the new bearings just giving me headaches. Use the printer and it will break in I tell myself....
Bam happens again after doing a few more prints
Redo limit initialization, clean encoding strip, double check everything.
Cant check tension on cable but tightened it one turn to "see" if that makes a difference..no.
Tried to run linear encoder and it fails same place.
The carriage is fine, bearings are not hanging up.
What else can it be?? Any Roland techs on here????
Thanks in advance for any advice you have.

 

[appstro]

I cleaned the encoder "eye" with alcohol and that worked once....then back to error.. I did manage to be able to run linear encoder and calibration before the error though... I may have damaged the "eye" during my reassembly or maybe even the encoder strip. I dont see any damage at all.

 

[GTSTech_1]

Have you tried to move the carriage by hand to feel any rough/resistance spots? Possible that the scan motor bearings in the new motor have gone bad. If the cable isn't at the proper tension it could wear out the bearings, if tension is too light then the slack in the back in forth motion could throw off the errors.


My .02

GTSTech_1

 

[GTSTech_1]

Could also be the replacement bearings. Roland doesn't sell just the bearings, you have to replace the whole rail when dealing with Roland OEM parts.


My .02

GTSTech_1

 

[appstro]

There are no rough spots. There were before I changed the bearings, but not now. Its as smooth as new now. I realize that Roland sells the entire rail and three bearings together only. They say its a matched set. I really could not afford the $900.00 for the rail and bearings. Of course installation by a Roland tech would cost another $5-600.00. So then I would be paying $1500.00 to have a Roland tech install Roland parts. I was hoping I could just buy the THK matching bearings for $250.00 and install myself. I already previously installed the linear bearing on the cutting tool successfully with no problems.

I have been wrestling with this for 2 days now. I have replaced the encoder strip $223.00, and the Encoder Bar (sensor) $96.00.... I have messed with the motor installation, cable tension, turned it on and off several times, unplugged it, disassembled the install twice to see if I missed something, made sure the rail was super oiled, aged the bearings in the service mode, checked clearance on the encoder strip to sensor....and still I get the error.

I have noticed that as long as the print job seems to have alot of black in it, the printer will start gracefully and print the entire job. It only fails when the carriage is jerked by the motor as it sometimes is for getting to the furthest side away from home to start a print. It usually errors about 10-12 inches from home when that happens. It will also error when the carriage is jerked back to home after a print, so it can start cut.

I spoke with a Roland tech yesterday and he told me that I shoulnt be messing around with something I dont understand. I agreed, but I really dont have the money to spend on this. I am just a guy working out of my garage trying to make a living. I did finally call him back today 5 minutes before the store closed. He says he will come out tomorrow. He warned me though that its $150.00 an hour and he thinks he will have to check everything so it will be a few hours. He says that if he cant find out what is wrong with it, he will only charge me for a half hour. But most likely 3-4 hours ($600.00). All this for a printer thats only worth $3-4000.00 now...

I guess I learned a lesson here. Might as well just have called Roland first and had them handle the whole thing. I have lost 2 days of work and I am sure that whatever money I have spent already will just be the beginning.

I just dont understand though. When its printing it is running smoother than it EVER has since I bought it used 3 years ago. Seemed like an easy fix. I know I am just missing something simple here... or I messed up something major dicking around in there. I dont know any more....ugh.

I wish there were people from Roland that would be willing to help you out without killing your pocket book.

 

[techsign33]

You're saying that inside 10/12 inch have no problem, if you do multi print job inside that area work great or faild sometimes?

if just out this area have problem mybe you have issu in encoder strip it self or in installing ,the strip must be in the mid of the encoder sensor non touching with edges.take off the upper cover and take a look while carriage moving note if encoder sensor hit the encoder strip .
mybe problem in insalling the carriage it self make problem in aligment the encoder sensor to the encoder strip .
you can rotate the strip the left side to right side the right side to left if the problem in the encoder strip the problem must travel to the other side if still in same place mean the problem in somthing else not the strip.



did you try send just cut job ?

if work in cutting without problem that's mean no problem in wire tension or scan motor you can take away this possible right now to look for aonther possible.

 

[appstro]

It really doesn't seem matter where the carriage is at. It seems that any time the carriage is moved fast, the error occurs. Usually thats when the printer IS NOT printing but actually moving to print position or to home (after print) from other side of printer.
I have checked and rechecked and rechecked the sensor clearance to the encoder strip. The encoder strip is brand new and I have actually cleaned it anyway.
I was able to do aging once the bearings were installed and that is high speed, but after I loosened the motor and tried to see if there was any problem there and then re tightened it there seems to be an error when I try aging. I have also tightened the cable tighter than I am comfortable with and also loosened the cable to what I thought was too slack to see if somehow there is a sweet spot.

The tech is coming this morning and I am almost out of ideas... The only thing I can think of is that MAYBE the 2 year old scan motor has gone bad suddenly? Maybe all the manual moving of the carriage with power off has somehow damaged the motor? Perhaps I somehow grounded a board connection and fried something when I was disconnecting the carriage from the rail? Maybe the servo board was damaged? Maybe the vertical settings of the new encoder sensor are set to close to the metal rail causing an error? Maybe its not close enough? Or maybe I have just screwed with the machine so much from my desperation to fix it, that I have messed it up, no matter how careful I have been.

What sucks about all this is that mechanically I can do almost anything I need to, but without any help from Roland or the techs giving away secrets, I am lost. The service manual is helpful to a point, but without someones knowledge of the printer itself you are on your own and need to figure everything out yourself. I can understand Roland not wanting you to mess with the printer when its only a few years old...but this thing is an sp-300 and is at least 10 years old now right? I should be able to call a tech and get answers, even if it means a $100.00 consultation. OR a REPAIR MANUAL would be nice too. Instead I HAVE TO get a Roland tech out here and he will be here who knows how long.... Not looking forward to this.

I will post what the eventual issue is....I hope its embarrassingly minor....

 

[Techman]

you need to get that repair manual.
Then you may want to study up on the operation of servo motors.
And then the drive belt should be just tight enough to move the heads without floppping around. The spring tensionor should handle all that tension stuff for you. IF the belt is too tight it will bottom out the tensionor and cause motor errors when there are sudden movements such as you describe.

and then I would look at the head itself. It has some play in it and sudden movements may allow it to lose its contact with the encoder strip if that strip is slightly out of place.

of course these are guesses because I cannot see your machine.

 

[techsign33]

Go to the service menu check the motor work hours.

did you try to send cutting job without printing and see what happen if it's work or give you same problem.

 

[appstro]

The scan motor is brand new and has only about 400 hours on it. It was replaced on 08/2012
I thought about doing a cut only, but maybe the weight of the print head carriage is what is causing the "voltage spike" or heavy load on the motor. If I ran the cutter by itself that would not indicate anything to me...at least I dont think it would...What do you think about this?

 

[appstro]

you need to get that repair manual.
Then you may want to study up on the operation of servo motors.
And then the drive belt should be just tight enough to move the heads without floppping around. The spring tensionor should handle all that tension stuff for you. IF the belt is too tight it will bottom out the tensionor and cause motor errors when there are sudden movements such as you describe.

and then I would look at the head itself. It has some play in it and sudden movements may allow it to lose its contact with the encoder strip if that strip is slightly out of place.

of course these are guesses because I cannot see your machine.

There is no belt on the sp-300, but if you are referring to the cable, I have no way to really accurately check the tension as I do not own the precious Roland wire tension gauge. The Roland tech didnt have any in stock to sell me and would not rent it to me. He did let me examine it so I could kinda get a "feel" for the right setting.

I am starting to think that the sensor is setting to close to the encoder mounting bracket. Its about 1/32 to 1/16 from the mounting bracket. Maybe its hitting or coming just close enough to set off the sensor....

 

[techsign33]

What I want from just cutting if it's work be sure that servo board work not fried , the wire tension are good and last the scan motor often have no problem.

 

[appstro]

OK thank you will try that right now.

The Roland tech was just here for 5 minutes and says the rail is the problem and that I should have bought the matched set for $900.00 - this cost me $114.10

The service manual refers to the making sure the servo motor has no backlash when doing a new install. Do you know what that is referring to? The manual does not explain...

 

[appstro]

OK cutting is working fine.

Looking in the service menu
Sensor check
FRSHOCPLWcw
***** *****

What is C???

 

[techsign33]

The backlash the gap between the motor gear teeth and next gear connected , every teeth in gear motor must get fit in every groove in next gear without loosing so every teeth traveling in motor gear fit the next groove in the next gear without problem . But your cutting work good and there is no error message so must be fine.


The C in service manual I read is limit sensor which the carriage push it in starting to detect home it's in the right side facing the top of carriage .



Did the tech check the encoder strip setting what he say?

 

[Techman]

servo motor has no backlash when doing a new install.

backlash is the amount of slack between the motor and the head. If the motor has a slight amount of movement before the head moves that is backlash.

Usually, when the head moves there is some reading of movement the encoder strip. The servo motor has an encoder it it measuring movement as well. If the two encoders do not match then an error code will appear. If the back lash is to great the encoder strip reading will not match the reading given by the servo motor encoder. Therefor there can be very little backlash.

 

[appstro]

Well....He was right.
I grabbed the old bearings and cleaned all the crap I could out of them. I washed them out with 3 in 1 oil and then added a little vasoline to the bearings to get them lubed up. I put it all back together and did a linear calibration. the first one failed as the old bearings hung up like always. The next one did NOT fail. I have printed two successful runs and its working.

SO.

If you are thinking "man those bastards at Roland are ripping everyone off making them buy a matching rail and bearings for $900.00....Huh!! i can buy the bearings at THK for $200.00" ...Smack yourself now and then go buy the bearing and rail.

I think I thought it would be OK to buy the bearings for the carriage as I had no problem replacing the bearing for the cutter and it worked fine. Unfortunately The bearings toloerance on the new bearings is smaller than the old bearings on the carriage. The difference is considerable when you really pay attention to them and feel the resistance side by side in pairs on the rail. I checked them individually and didnt feel any difference, but holding both bearings in pairs as they would be when installed...you could definitely feel the difference.

Lesson learned.

Thanks to everyone that tried to help!!