Am I Nuts?

[Jillbeans]

I like the idea of working the business for 2 months but I don't know if it would be practical. I doubt there's enough business to pay me anything so I'd be likely working for free.

There's your answer right there.
You will more than likely be paying to work and working for free if you do this.
Sounds like you're bound and determined, I do hope it works for you but the reality of it is that it probably won't and you'll be out of both your money and your time.

 

[BJVT]

Thanks Jillbeans, direct is better and much faster than beating around the bush. If not profitable, making signs should at least be more fun than making flavorless sandwiches. This is also a pretty rural area and there are not a lot of opportunities. Many people have 2 or 3 jobs and or businesses. I'm having to seriously adjust my city ways of thinking after moving here.

 

[BJVT]

I'm determined to make an informed decision. My determination to do this remains to be seen.

 

[StarSign]

Is the sign shop going to be your sole income? If you don't have enough money saved to be able to pay yourself for at least a year without taking any $ out of the business, good luck!

 

[Billct2]

I doubt there's enough business to pay me anything so I'd be likely working for free

This should tell you something.
Do you have any idea how much you'd have to sell to net $30k? Figure that out first, then look at the market and see if it is even possible.
I know your area and it is extremely difficult to make a living doing something like signs
when everyone else is also scrambling to make a living.
Not that it can't be done, but it's not going to be easy or quick.

 

[sfr table hockey]

I don't think I read anything about what is the size of area that you have to draw from?

Smaller towns may have 2-5 thousand people but might have a trading area of 10 to 50 thousand.

Would the building be part of the deal or is that still going to be a rent thing. 54" printer is almost a must to bring in the 4' x 8' size jobs you may get.

I would think there are a lot of us who started out without knowing what a vector was compared to a bitmap and why you need a better computer to run the software needed or why can't you just cut around that picture. This part can be learned but know that it may take 6 months to a year to get a good grasp on things.

 

[SD&F]

The best idea/advice on here is offer to work for him for awhile and see if this is something you really can do or would even like to do. Without the things that you mentioned you DON'T have, it is not worth the $$$$.
GOOD LUCK

 

[SignProPlus-Chip]

I read your first post twice to make sure I didn't miss anything.

So you want to start a business in which you no nothing about, have no skill set for, overpay to get into and only has a track record of making $10k a year.

You titled the thread, "Am I Nuts?"

Do you REALLY need me to answer that?

 

[Gino]

Welcome from PA....................

You're not nuts..... you're a fool if you make this venture. With your knowledge [or lack of], ability [or lack of], attitude [or lack of], and poor example of dealing with us [total written proof].... your people skills are zilch.

You come here looking for help and some people are giving you good advice and ribbing you at the same time and you start calling them names and making fun of them. Yeah, you'll go far. With your ability, you'll make half-a$$ed signs and when the people tell you they are dissatisfied, you'll just go off on them and you'll kill whatever's left of this guy's business..... if there really is any to begin with. ​

 

[Marlene]

The other issue is that I have no sign making experience beyond buying some for a previous business and no formal graphic arts training.

there's your biggest problem as if you are a one man shop, it is all up to you to learn the sign business. a couple of weeks training is not enough no matter how hill billy you may think my fellow Vermonters are, they do know a bad looking sign when they see one.

 

[CheapVehicleWrap]

OK Mosh, or should I refer to as Your Holiness?

From this point forward, "His Moshness" will suffice.

 

[nashvillesigns]

Mosh gave a nice, frank warning. If i knew what i was getting into three years ago, i might have not done what you are about to .
-Moshpit.

 

[Mikeifg]

Business in decline is your first clue to steer clear. No experience in the industry is your next reason not to. If you have money to spend find something your good at and put it towards that. I think thats the best advise for you. This isn't an industry where your going to make it rich or have overnight success. If your still interested buy him out for the cost of his equipment @ a used rate. Seeing how it's in decline he probably has no customers that will sustain the biz anyway. If your going to buy a business which I've bought out some small shops, you'll want to only buy the ones that are making money. Knowone buys a business that is loosing money unless they want to buy it at a major discount liquidate it and sell off the land or building for profit. You never buy a homebased business.

 

[ColoPrinthead]

btw mosh, did you know that stone brewing has a really good beer named after you? You must really be a special sign maker!

 

[Fatboy]

Welcometo the forum. Can you carry yourself for a few moths financially? I your answer is yes I would say go for it but dont buy his business. Start up on your own.Buy a printer and start from there.Just realise that you will have to put hours and hours of researh into it.The web is full of "how to do " stuff.Start with small simple stuff like banners.No rocket science needed there.Also be nice to the people here,stay in the background and learn.
This business is full of opportunities. Just one thing .....make sure you are passionate about signage.....this is not a job...its a way of life.
I started 4 years ago,l love it and I make a very good living.

 

[BJVT]

Marlene, I never called Vermonters hillbillies. I'm just trying to carefully paint as accurate a picture of the local market as I can since many here are obviously from larger urban areas with a very different type of market. The reality is, if you're not in Burlington, there are not many people in Vermont and as a result the average business in my area is much smaller and has a much tighter marketing budget than average. Vermont's population density is seriously lower than most of the country.

 

[Bly]

Yes.

 

[gabagoo]

:U Rock:

Mosh may have only made 7k last year but he produced 700k in work.

 

[mark galoob]

BJ, i dont think your nuts...you sound like a normal person looking to start a business and get a decent living. a close friend of mine 6 yrs ago took a loosing pack & ship where the guy made his customers cry and slept in the back office, paid pennies for it, and turned it into a 500k yr operation. not bad for a 1400 sq ft retail space. now mind you, he already had been in the business so he knew all the ins and outs.

as far as how much he made last yr...EVERYBODY here knows thats totally subjective. with tax loop holes and whatnot, if your smart, you will only let your business make a few thousand dollars. so thats hard to knock...

personally, id like to see his body of work, maybe talk to some of his customers just to get a feel for the place. i dont think his printers or vinyl are worth anything...if you want to do it...id lowball him and get the business for pennies on the dollar, then buy new equipt, spend the money on vinyl and supplies you are going to burn through from your learning curve, maybe even hire an expert to come and walk you through signmaking 101 and stay on a bit till you get comfy.

good luck

mark galoob

 

[BJVT]

Thanks Mark and the rest of you. This does sound like a fun business and I've tried find some way to think this might be turned around but I'm just not getting there. Spent the afternoon talking to the chamber and several local business people and I don't think there's much if any potential here. Thanks for all your help. I think I'll suggest he try selling out to one of his competitors.

 

[Marlene]

Marlene, I never called Vermonters hillbillies. I'm just trying to carefully paint as accurate a picture of the local market as I can since many here are obviously from larger urban areas with a very different type of market. The reality is, if you're not in Burlington, there are not many people in Vermont and as a result the average business in my area is much smaller and has a much tighter marketing budget than average. Vermont's population density is seriously lower than most of the country.

have you checked into how many sign shops there are in the area? at one time there were 26 shops in the Burlington area alone. that did not include all the shops state wide. we have 660,000 people in the state so if every man, woman and child bought a sign, there still wouldn't be enough for all of us. the way you make it here is to be excellent, put out an excellent product and provide excellent service. we have our share of hacks and there's no real room for more. you need to know how to make a sign to make it here and it sounds like you don't. get some training, good long training, no a couple of weeks but some real hands on to see if you can actually do this or not. you asked if you were crazy to consider buying this shop and I think you might be if you have no experience. I can run a power drill so wouldn't I make a good dentist, after all, they drill too. that sounds like really stupid thing to say doesn't it? that's what most of us think when we hear someone is good at crafts so why not at making signs. it can be the next logical step or not as it all comes down to can you make a sign. skills as a designer are something that you can go out and learn thru classes but that too needs to have is base in talent. then there are wind loads, zoning, materials and a whole pile of other things that are part of being a sign shop and what you need to know. there isn't a chance that in a couple of weeks a training are all you need.

 

[Jillbeans]

Agreed 100%!

 

[Typestries]

I'm quite familiar with the area from Ludlow East to Springfield and Chester and South to Londonderry and Manchester onto Bennington. Short story you'll have a tough time making money in the sign biz in that area for a number of reasons, primary one being that the limited amount of good, profitable work is already being handled by the few shops that are actively producing, and even they are making only a meager living. Southern VT is a depressed area, plain and simple. Rich people come visit. Locals (your primary audience) largely struggle.

Then add the fact that your primary high dollar prospects (the ski areas) make their stuff internally, and your even more SOL.

Feel free to PM me or give a call if you would like.