anyone buy a printer from matt c?

[Pro Signs & Graphix]

Just make sure communication is clear and contracted properly.

Complacency always leads to failure. This is something that is very evident in the sign industry. It takes being burned to learn that there are no "friends" when it comes to money. Clear and concise contracts are a must in business - period.

Robert - With no intentions of starting anything, and metaphorically speaking, remember that it was your wolf pup that escaped your pen. It was the preceding reputation of your business that loaned the credibility of your wolf. While it may have seemed like to good of a deal to be true, the fact is that on occasion there are deals to be had.

I have watched this thread because, as stated, similar happened to me. How you iron out your differences and seek restitution is your business but when you defend an admitted thief in our midst it becomes our business. Your defending statements would scare me from doing business with your company - just by the shear nature of what now appears to be a contradiction from the original, and even some complicity. (In other words "we will get even with those customers."). As a businessman, I sincerely hope that you see the error and the further damage it has/will cause.

If you choose to try and raise yourself to the level of God and offer forgiveness - so be it, if you think you can. If it were absolutely true, you would not seek restitution even from Matt, again your business and your beliefs.

Me...I am a mere man, and an honest one at that. Forgiveness is solely at God's discretion. My my business philosophies do not include "margins" for honesty and integrity. It is either all there, or it is not.

As you are aware, and as I stated, I have not purchased from you - and although it will not break you (do not want that), I am not so sure now that I ever would. You cannot have it both ways, like sinning during the week and seeking redemption on Sunday.

 

[Replicator]

I'm just curious whether or not Robertw and/or UnicaDigital

will be returning monies that were charged to clients unknowingly :

 

[Flame]

I'm just curious whether or not Robertw and/or UnicaDigital

will be returning monies that were charged to clients unknowingly :

Best I can tell.... yes?

It took me a minute, but I can see what Roberts trying to say. What Matt did was his fault, and he has to take care of stuff. BUT, to the people who got burned... don't forget you knew something was probably fishy in the dealings anyways. Like taking on a cell phone instead of a business line, doing stuff out of the ordinary, strange money dealings.... etc.

I don't know all the details, this is just my interpretation of what I've read here.

 

[iSign]

...why are you beating a dead horse here ?? Damage control is one thing, but preaching about how moral you and your company are… tends to make me think there is more to this story now. Again, I hope I’m wrong, but me thinkst thou protesteth too much.

Gino, I think Roberts intentions are in line with your own comment that was later taken out of context by bob... I didn't take his recent comments as preaching, but in his unenviable position of suffering losses to his reputation that are impossible to quantify, & losses to his bottom line that are probably substantial (though expected to be reimbursed over time) I believe he is venting a little about the several people who are profiting on this fiasco.

Getting new equipment, below cost, is not a normal opportunity. When it happens with possible red flags, like off hours deals with cell phones, or sudden dated windows of opportunity... well, the integrity of the purchaser is not automatically suspect... and certainly not by me, without the whole story.. but If Robert chooses to share the analogy of the Red Caddie... He obviously feels that the evaporation of so much cash didn't go into thin air... it went into the hands of clients who saw a sweetheart deal & grabbed it. Is it fair to call the difference between what they paid, & fair market value a "profit"? ...Well, that's not for me to say... but if several lucky shoppers are ahead of the curve in equal margin to how far behind the 8-ball Robert is...I don't think he is out of line in pointing that out.

Although I must again say that I don't have all the facts, so this is theory... but I would also guess that Roberts references to lawyers has to do with one of the options available to him, which he is not choosing to excercise.

If I buy stolen goods, without knowing they are stolen... & later it turns out they are stolen... those good WILL be legally confiscated & my money WILL NOT be returned.

Even if all monies ARE returned in exchange for returning the equipment... I think the current recipients of windfall "profits" (savings) would not want legal action requiring their deals to be reversed.

If, in fact, Robert has a legal opportunity to force the undoing of these deals, & has instead elected to work with Matt to shoulder the entire financial burden of honoring multiple money-losing business transactions... I still believe he has earned nothing but respect from us observers, and doesn't deserve anything less.

Would it have looked better if he never posted his last few remarks? Yes, I believe it would have... but I think under the pressure of stepping up and doing the right thing... he sort of wishes even one person who inadvertantly became a winner at his expense, might choose to negotiate an alternative outcome where they did not end up reaping some of the spoils of his misfortune.

You and your company have just gone through a lot of crap…. so relax, it’s the weekend and come back to this next week and tell us… ‘the rest of the story’ as Paul Harvey says………..

I'd like to hear that too.

 

[gvgraphics]

Outside sales reps give out their cell # all the time.

From earlier in this thread it was said he could work a deal with Mutoh, so the customer was suppose to instantly assume their was an issue? Come on, how many people go look at new cars and find a dealer who is allot cheaper? Does that make them shady deals? I don't think so, that is part of the sales world.

Now I don't know all of the info and really don't want to but from what has been said here the customers are noway at fault.

 

[iSign]

when I was 16, there was this low-life in the neighborhood who offered to sell me "his" camera real cheap... I didn't think too much about it being "his" (or not?) ...I just thought it was too cheap to pass up. A year later, I left it in front of my house when I went inside... & it got stolen! (a small part of me felt vindicated, or relieved... because that part knew it was probably never supposed to be mine)

A year later, there were a bunch of drumsticks & cymbals being mentioned in the high school locker room... that turned out to have been from a drum and bugle corps bus. I was a drummer & had some small degree of use for this stuff, & I guess I paid some small fee for it. They were not the proper equipment for my instrument, but seemed cool at the time, & the cheapest way to add to what few I might have already owned. Some years later, (those cymbals long gone) I was unloading our bands van after a gig... everyone would pitch in and helping the drummer... cause I had so much crap to move... but I guess whoever helped unload my new cymbal bag, full of $1000 worth of professional quality Zildjians, must have just left them next to the front door, in the shadows, thinking I would see them & know where I wanted them to be put. I never saw them again.

I'd like to say I learned my lesson by that time... but not quite. I did finally learn it though. A screenprinter friend told me his buddy had a new iMac in the box, and his friends wife was grumbling that they couldn't afford it, & needed to sell it... for $400... I checked it out & it was in mint condition, in the box... & it was a white one, which I later learned was a high end one, worth over $800. Well I started feeling sick & I called my friend. I told him I had to give it back. I said I wasn't making any judgements out loud, about anybody... but if I saw some of my $400 again, that would be cool... if I didn't... that would still be better then how I felt about keeping that piece of equipment.

Sorry for the appearance of any implied judgement on what went down here. I really don't know what went down here, but I think I understand what RobertW is saying, & I think it has to do with several people getting offered prices that may have looked low beyond belief.

We don't know what vendors pay for stuff, & when liquidation deals may surface... so I don't mean to imply that the feeling in the moment of making these deals was anything like when I bought cheap crap in my youth... I GET IT THAT A (previously) REPUTABLE VENDOR MADE THE DEAL... so it is not at all the same as my unsavory experiences with lowlife backroom deals...

...BUT, now that the smoke has cleared... I agree that the customers were "no way at fault" in signing on for the deal, but they are not immune from Roberts right to question what their conscious tells them today.

 

[gvgraphics]

...BUT, now that the smoke has cleared... I agree that the customers were "no way at fault" in signing on for the deal, but they are not immune from Roberts right to question what their conscious tells them today.

I agree with you Isign, I just don't like the fact that the looks of the last post looked like he was trying to pass blame. The consumer or customer in this situation was offered a great deal, by as you put it a "reputable" supplier. I myself would think "Man, they have a good connection with XXXX company, Glad I called them." I would never think something like this was happening in a business of this nature.

I do however feel that Robert should have known or had someone looking into sales as they where made to know what was going on in his business. I am by no means trying to say Robert him self is at fault, but that there should have been some procedure to stop something of this nature from happening. I hope there will be in the future to protect Robert, The Business and most important the buyer.

 

[Robertw]

Some are wise others clueless

I am beginning to love this forum. Believe me when I say thanks to everyone, even those who are clueless.

All of your comments, understandings and more importantly lessons are a God send to me at this time. It is so healthy to hear from other business owners who freely share life and business wisdom.

I have every right to express my opinion. Everyone who comments, writes or mentions anything on this and every other forum is doing just that. I own my opinions 100% and ask no one to buy into them. If you do then own it yourself.

God, not ever, never will be or even assume to come close. But the Word has many lessons for us to learn about business and human nature. It is the ultimate guide for everyone.

My comments of late do not "blame" those who have profited by Matt's faulty selling through this vehicle. What my comments are doing is to challenge the moral fibers of those who knowing were wrong, such as wire transfer to personal accounts and sending checks made out to the sales person. Hmm what do you nay sayers think about that?

Question: are you a person who when given the wrong change from a distracted grocery teller would tell them or would you think, it's my lucky day a pocket your "reward"!

It won't take to long to know a bit more of everyone who has taken part in this thread. It will be my pleasure to get to know more about you and your business.

For those who say RobertW needs accountability let me show them articles that were written about Enron. We are a company of 5, very busy and very focused. We work in a world of competitive selling and margins sometime are quite low. Our major suppliers give us no breaks and yet we survive in this world. Mistakes happen and we learn, grow up and adapt.

You are all the best and I wish you great success.

RobertW

 

[gvgraphics]

It's funny how more and more facts come out as you try to stand up for your self. To call us Nay sayers is a little far fetched when you only tell bits and pieces at a time, hard to judge a situation on scraps!
I have to agree, you have every right to voice your opinion. I do have to say however, the facts of this issue are not all known, there for, judgment will be passed by some on what is know and not the whole story. The best advice I can give you is to present the TRUE facts to the fullest, and then let there be judgment. The fact of the matter is he said, she said gets know where, truth and honesty get you allot more than you could ever expect.

So if you want a true judging of the situation than please present the whole and true facts and lets see what others have to say. This may be the way to help un-tarnish your business reputation for future sales with members here at signs101. This of course, is up to you and how you what to be seen.

Sean

 

[onesource]

I dunno if it matters to most of us because we don't have to trade with RW but the ones caught up in the misfortunate mistake needs to iron this out, wich ever side it may be. Doesn't mean we can't do business with RW either but you have a point too GV. Lets see what happens!

It's funny how more and more facts come out as you try to stand up for your self. To call us Nay sayers is a little far fetched when you only tell bits and pieces at a time, hard to judge a situation on scraps!
I have to agree, you have every right to voice your opinion. I do have to say however, the facts of this issue are not all known, there for, judgment will be passed by some on what is know and not the whole story. The best advice I can give you is to present the TRUE facts to the fullest, and then let there be judgment. The fact of the matter is he said, she said gets know where, truth and honesty get you allot more than you could ever expect.

So if you want a true judging of the situation than please present the whole and true facts and lets see what others have to say. This may be the way to help un-tarnish your business reputation for future sales with members here at signs101. This of course, is up to you and how you what to be seen.

Sean

 

[iSign]

It's funny how more and more facts come out as you try to stand up for your self. To call us Nay sayers is a little far fetched when you only tell bits and pieces at a time, hard to judge a situation on scraps!
I have to agree, you have every right to voice your opinion. I do have to say however, the facts of this issue are not all known, there for, judgment will be passed by some on what is know and not the whole story. The best advice I can give you is to present the TRUE facts to the fullest, and then let there be judgment. The fact of the matter is he said, she said gets know where, truth and honesty get you allot more than you could ever expect.

So if you want a true judging of the situation than please present the whole and true facts and lets see what others have to say. This may be the way to help un-tarnish your business reputation for future sales with members here at signs101. This of course, is up to you and how you what to be seen.

Sean

Sean,
do you have a stake in this?

You are judging him, do you realize that? Our country is founded on the premise of innocent until proven guilty, and refined social behavior should be based on similar reservations of judgement.

The situation is unfortunate. Maybe there is more guilt then we know, maybe not. The fact that any of it is being aired in public has to be unplesant for Robert, & if he is guilty of nothing, sparring with insinuations from you & others is an additional stress he could do without.

The man appears to have built up a highly successful company, with an excellent track record prior to this week. This may not be the case, but as I said, that is how it appears. I think most of us can agree that building up a highly successful company does not happen for flakes or fools. Does it happen for unscrupulous thieves? Yes, obviously there have been business built that way too... but I'll refer back to "innocent until proven guilty".

So I would give the man the respect he deserves for running his business as he has in the past, & refrain for calling him to the carpet right now. Calling you "nay sayers" is exactly what you are. He is claiming to be an upstanding professional Aye? ...and some here would rather say Nay first, & ask questions later.

You are telling him to present all the true facts if he wants a true judging of the matter. Did it ever occur to you that:

A.) he may not be in a position to have (or to be 100% sure he has) all the "TRUE facts" ...and:

B.) he may not want your true judging of the matter.

He probably has enough on his plate with his vendor, (Mutoh) his employees, (not just Matt... but the other 4 are probably not entirely at ease today) and several real clients to appease. For all we know, he is trying to appease them.

He may not come out squeaky clean, and he may not repair his reputation with those folks, in which case repercussions will engulf this community as sure as the sun will rise... but I'd rather consider the jury to be out, then to play judge myself.

I've got a concern that his $12000 Caddie for $4000 was a misleading analogy to support his feeling that clients should have known something was fishy... BUT, if there were "wire transfer to personal accounts and sending checks made out to the sales person" (and I don't doubt that, since robert mentions it) ... then some of these clients probably should have at least wondered if something was fishy ... and now, flash forward to today.. they KNOW something was fishy, so what to do?

As bob has said, I don't feel that a client duped by a rogue employee into expecting to buy a dollar for 50 cents (or 75 or whatever) needs to feel obligated to cough up some coin... but on the other hand, if I was in Roberts shoes (based only on what he has told us) I would want to question the buyers complete innocence in some cases.

In his shoes I would probably consider something like this. Say the clients paid 75 cents, for every dollar Robert would have charged them if Matt hadn't succumbed to whatever temptation befell him. Lets say all those quarters that were unethically shaved off their bill at Roberts expense added up to $4K...

..Then I would consider that these new owners of printers will need inks & media for years and years... & if I push too hard for them to step up and help me cut my losses now... they may abandon me forever, AND spread ill will in the sign community...
BUT, if I can encourage each of them to purchase $4K in media and inks TODAY, by offering them a slight price break, while also appealing to their sense of equity & sympathy for how much there sales rep cost me in giving them their great deal this month... then I might see lower profit margins on that media... but I might restore client relationships, while also spiking my cash flow at a time i could use it... and when new printer owners get their learning curve all dialed in with the media I stock... as long as I don't falter again, I may have their business & their friends business for a long time to come.

 

[gvgraphics]

Isign,

All that I can say the question of do I have a stake in this is that I know more than is being shown here. In all do respect to the buyers, Robert, Matt, and the company I will not mention any details, also I promised not to elaborate on details to some whom are friends. So that said, I will say no more in reference to the question.

I will also not judge either side until all is know, I was not or should I say was not trying to show blame on Robert, the analogy he used was a personal sale not a business to business as were these. What I as trying to point out is from the sounds of his post, he was passing blame on to the buyer. That to me is way off balance and should not have happened. The mistakes made lay with in his business and employee's. The buyers I mentioned in an earlier post were dealing with a legit company and a known sales rep. They had no reason to doubt the offer being made. The buyer has no idea of the cost of the item to the company or how the company does business with it's suppliers, nor should they. So for them to honestly know that it was a shady deal is almost impossible, and that I will say no more until Robert himself is ready to discuss the particulars of it.

I have spoken to Robert via PM, and will respect both sides of this until proven guilty as you have said.

 

[Valentino]

so if a deal is too good to be true, I should know i'm dealing with a swindler? that's the vibe I've gotten out of some of the posts.....I agree with gvgraphics that the sales person is the one to blame.

I agree that potentional buyer has no clue the actual cost of some items. I charge 160 for a banner that costs me under 8 bucks in materials.

 

[iSign]

I charge 160 for a banner that costs me under 8 bucks in materials.

$160!! ??

...that's funny, your employee only charges me $140 - CASH!,

...if I pick it up by the back door!

(oh, yeah... I wasn't supposed to mention it :Oops: )

 

[John L]

Is this a clever advertising ploy of some sort?
ie. the beatles.. "paul is dead... paul is dead... paul is dead"

 

[Todd-sta]

If you choose to try and raise yourself to the level of God and offer forgiveness - so be it, if you think you can. If it were absolutely true, you would not seek restitution even from Matt, again your business and your beliefs.

Me...I am a mere man, and an honest one at that. Forgiveness is solely at God's discretion.

I've read these posts with some interest...as well as with an unbiased opinion as an outsider to this scandel.

Seems to me Robert has done an extraordinary thing in working out this financial albatross with his employee and his customers in a way that protects his customers and forgives the offending party - thus sparing his family financial ruin for his mistake.

Don't forget - there are more people affected apparently than this Matt fellow behind the scenes.

The statement that portrays God as the only one capable or called upon to offer forgiveness is spoken from your viewpoint....not God's.

If you believe in God, then you must certainly believe in His Word....which clearly contradicts your humanly thoughts on forgiveness. God clearly calls on man to forgive one another....and if he is not capable of this....then he should not be expected to be forgiven his own mistakes from the Main Man himself :

Mat 6:12 (TEB) "Forgive us the wrongs that we have done, as we forgive the wrongs others have done us."

Luke 6:37 (NIV) "...Forgive, and you will be forgiven."

Mat 6:14-15 (NIV) "For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But, if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins."

These verses posted to refute earlier statements which others might take as fact - not knowing any better.

Now, is forgiveness easy? No way....and I think you can forgive...but not forget. A person that was dealt wrongly by another would be expected to not forget the deed itself...and forgiveness doesn't mean you need to totally trust the person again...or even deal with the person again.

Forgiveness doesn't circumvent responsibility nor justice either. Robert could have clearly forgiven Matt, but allowed the legal system to deal out a responsibility for his actions. I think the two are separate concepts.

What Robert did was what I would call "Forgiveness PLUS"...in that he apparantly forgave Matt...but with an added measure of GRACE and compassion - extended him a way to keep his job and avoid the consequences of legal action.

He apparently did not, however, absolve him of his responsibility for his actions - which, as Robert states - includes a reimbursement schedule to account for the monies fraudulently extracted from the business.

I personally do see Roberts comment about "the cadillac and the *good deal*" as having merit.....there is some responsibility upon the part of the the purchaser to question a deal that so overtly seems way-out-of-line with any other competitive bid. That should send up not just a red flag - but flares.

If you went to an electronics store and saw a big screen television that was half the price of the other 3 big box stores in town - you wouldn't wonder why? Be honest folks....there's a little greed factor in that too.

Forgiveness is NOT easy to be sure...Just so people don't think I'm positioning my self through these comments as being Holier-than-thou I'd have to state that like most people, my first gut reaction to being wronged or slighted is to lash out in retaliation - to seek revenge. This, is a natural emotional response...but not necessarily the right one. This thread has brought to mind a few people I should forgive..and Maybe I should take a few people off my "ignore" button....

Just my observations.

 

[bob]

...
If you believe in God, then you must certainly believe in His Word...

What if you don't? What then?

Belief in this or that as a prerequisite for accepting an argument is a feeble reed.

You'd do better to explain your position without reference to your gods.

 

[Flame]

What if you don't? What then?

Belief in this or that as a prerequisite for accepting an argument is a feeble reed.

You'd do better to explain your position without reference to your gods.

your point......???

 

[Pro Image]

your point......???

In a hundred years......Who's going to care................?

 

[schurms]

Robert,
As you said some are wise and clueless on this board. This wouldn't have happened as you ar clueless about whats going on in your company.