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Apparently No Age is Safe.

Discussion in 'General Chit-Chat' started by WildWestDesigns, Mar 29, 2020.

  1. Christian @ 2CT Media

    Christian @ 2CT Media Major Contributor

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    We can all make predictive numbers, until this crosses the 30% mortality threshold there is nothing to fear. You want to hide, you do you, but reality is this isn't going away and there are zero measures in place to boost our medical system to handle a high critical case rate so what is flattening the curve going to amount too?

    Nothing, when you all return from your hidey holes, you'll be financially devestated and still having to deal with COVID-19/20/ whatever mutation designation.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  2. Texas_Signmaker

    Texas_Signmaker Very Active Signmaker

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    This is the dumbest thing I've ever read on here.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  3. ikarasu

    ikarasu Very Active Member

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    At least one of the schools re-opened for 2 days and then got word they were supposed to re-shut down. I believe the current ETA is end of the year for the schools to re-open.

    Shenzen is still mostly closed. A lot of factories are turning their lights on / running machines with no workers because everyone is refusing to go back to work.

    https://www.caixinglobal.com/2020-0...re-faking-coronavirus-recovery-101524058.html Caixin is the equivalent of our business insider. They're pretty reputable. Now this was march 04... When they just started announcing things are ok, so maybe it's changed - I only have family in Nanjing, and from what they say...while the restrictions are lifted and they can go out, no one is trusting the government right now and people are staying on lock down. It's all a show to try to get their Economy back - hence why they banned all foreign reporters and kicked them out of the country, even though some have been there for years. It's not about keeping the virus out... it's about keeping the news out.


    As for chinas real # - I'd say it's closer to 100x what they have reported.

    http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Wuha...avirus-dead-cast-doubts-on-numbers-49673.html I'm not sure about this source, It's been reposted about 100 times... I know it started at a reputable site, now its everywhere. China reported 3200 deaths from the virus. Just in Wuhan they distributed 45,000 urns - Theres satelite video of their crematoriums running almost 24/7. The 3200 is a drop in the bucket compared to the real numbers.

    Every health official has said there is a second wave after the first - So it's very, very "Odd" that china isnst getting any community spread infections, and its all from people coming back into the Country... more likely they want to say they defeated it, and it's USA / foreigners that have brought it back into the country to save face.

    It's all politics. At a time like this, it shouldn't be smoke and mirrors, everything should be out in the open so we can better learn to fight it. I'm hoping, though doubtful - That china is at least sharing the real numbers with other world leaders. If they want to save face and hide it from the general population, fine - but in a situation like this, it's not the time to fudge statistics. No one, and I mean no one... even in china, believe theyve only had 3000 deaths from this, it's ridiculous. Even only having 81,000 cases - This virus came from Wuhan, So for 2 weeks no one knew about it... And it was just spreading everywhere. But somehow they got half the infections, and same amount of deaths as USA, even though it spread in USA months after it was in china? :rolleyes: I'm glad Trump calls it the Chinese virus and called them out on it, someone needs to. Theyre trying to re-write history and say it was from USA to begin with. I've been to china a dozen times, wife has a lot of family there... I love china, but the CCP is getting ridiculous.
     
  4. WildWestDesigns

    WildWestDesigns Major Contributor

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    Very rarely do these things go away, now what comes out of them is something else.

    Some that we thought we got rid of, have actually come back. Hansen's Disease still exists. In some states, still have Polio (although I don't hear about March of Dimes (although I think they have expanded their purview, since the polio vaccine) like I did while listening to my OTR shows), so come on.

    Here is the thing, let's table mortality for a second. Don't consider it. Unlike the garden variety flu, this little bug has left some people with significantly reduce lung capacity. Those workers aren't going to be very efficient. If we have a large pool of those workers (especially if the are young), how well do you think things are going to recover if the current job seeking pool gets out of breath due to a brisk walk? Eventually, they may be able to increase stamina, but it's still going to take time. This is otherwise in shape, healthy, young individuals not the diabetics etc.

    As far as really knowing the true end result numbers, I doubt we will ever now and because of that , always have some people saying "x" and some people saying "y".

    Here is the thing that I find really ironic. If we do all of this and in the end, this becomes just a blip and you'll have some people that will say, see told you so, it wasn't nothing. Without even considering the possibility that it was because we did what we did that it turned out to be a blip on the radar. Then of course, if it turns out to be significantly worse, people will say didn't do enough, when that could have realistically been all that we could have done. Hindsight is 20/20 on some things, but won't get a bead on any direction period until a defining event happens. I would hate to see how my kids would have to recover, if me and my wife still proceeded like business as usual and we ended up dying and the kids had to find for themselves. Or worse yet, the kids died and either we both survived or only I did. Sorry, there would be no recovery for me on that.
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. SignMeUpGraphics

    SignMeUpGraphics Moderator

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    It's a bit like Y2K. You want something like this to go away with just whimper than cripple the entire planet due to so much work being put in to prevent disaster.
    I'm all for a bit of preventative maintenance if less people end up in morgues.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Bly

    Bly Very Active Member

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    I survived Y2K!
     
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  7. Notarealsignguy

    Notarealsignguy Active Member

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    Kinda hard to do much business when the majority of people are sitting in their hidey holes like they are being asked to do. Youll burn more cash trying to hang onto business thats not there than you would just sittin on the sofa waiting it out.
     
  8. Notarealsignguy

    Notarealsignguy Active Member

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    A lot of this is going on now. Countries are taking drastic measures and people are looking at the cases vs population saying its not that bad. Yet ignoring the preventative measures in place.
    This will surpass flu deaths in half the time and we do next to nothing to try and stop the spread or contain the flu.
     
  9. dypinc

    dypinc Very Active Member

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    Here
  10. Christian @ 2CT Media

    Christian @ 2CT Media Major Contributor

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    Sure! Seeing as we are busy working with all the people not in their hidey holes and the large critical infrastructure companies we do business with. There are a lot of smaller shops closing doors around here and their clients are looking for solutions.
    My team has been given the option to stay home and they choose to come in and those who can work from home are. If our team decided to not come in, they would get paid while My Brother and I would continue to operate through all of this.

    I just can already see the people complaining their jobs are gone, businesses have failed, and so on coming soon to a media outlet near you and at that point, I will have zero compassion.
     
  11. WildWestDesigns

    WildWestDesigns Major Contributor

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    Surprising that you are talking in the future tense, when it's actually been happening now. Now, I will say, for some of them, their business were already on the edge (not necessarily of their doing either) and just couldn't support something like this. But then again, if that was the case then any downturn in the economic cycle probably would have killed the business as it is.

    Economics is not an uplifting thing. It's not known as the "dismal science" for nothing.


    Now, I will say this, I've still been working, my wife has still been working, just not business as usual (that's the key distinction). So don't think that just because people are in their "hidey hole", that some aren't doing something (now does everyone have that ability, no, but I would suspect not everyone is in their "hidey hole" doing nothing either). So technically speaking, one could say that I/we/they operating through this (just in a different capacity).

    Like I said, some that have gotten this and recovered, have diminished capacity (reduction in lung capacity is nothing to scoff at and that will affect working ability) and some have gotten reinfected with this as well. That tells me that we aren't building up the immunity like we normally do with the flu. Because they are getting reinfected fairly quickly.

    Nothing that we do in hindsight is going to be perfect. They best thing that we can hope for is that we learn from it and move on (and actually retain what we learned(that's a key thing with our short memories as humans).


    I firmly believe that economic impact would have happened regardless what course of action would have been taken. One can see that in localized high density areas as well. Those that still had their usual festivities are now hotbeds of the infection. That's going to affect those businesses even if the nation didn't seemingly shut down. Now if all the states did that, there would be pockets of that throughout (I say pockets, those that live in less populated areas probably wouldn't be affected as much). It's pick "your" poison. Someone is going to still complain and there is still going to be hardship.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. Notarealsignguy

    Notarealsignguy Active Member

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    Im busy too. Had a short lived drop but jambed up again. It wont last though and if you think it will you are kidding yourself.
    Despite what you want to think, when this is all over most people will just be happy that they made it through it healthy and didnt lose any loved ones, not upset about some job.
     
  13. Texas_Signmaker

    Texas_Signmaker Very Active Signmaker

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    I'm more worried about an adult that thinks "hidey hole" is an appropriate term to use in public.
     
    • Hilarious! Hilarious! x 1
  14. Christian @ 2CT Media

    Christian @ 2CT Media Major Contributor

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    I've never been accused of being an adult
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Christian @ 2CT Media

    Christian @ 2CT Media Major Contributor

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    Since you pandemic pusher love predictive numbers, the Fed and multiple business analysts are predicting 30-45% of all small businesses closing due to this... Some 12 million business causing 30% of our nation to be unemployed or underemployed... You truly think people will be happy they survived a pandemic that had a under 2% mortality rate and 80% chance of mild to no symptoms?

    As for workload, our large clients have given us 4 months of work to "keep us Alive" through this and we are doing the same with all our subs and smaller clients.
     
  16. WildWestDesigns

    WildWestDesigns Major Contributor

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    The irony is those that have mild to no symptoms are probably not going to get tested, so it's hard to say if they actually had it.

    Then of course, I've read some doctors saying that retesting has been necessary because some gave false negatives.


    I doubt we will ever know true numbers. Either due to it being weaponized for political means or just due to it being what it is (lack of testing, bad testing results etc).


    We actually have other issues that are going on that are also feeding into the lose of businesses, not just this little "cootie bug". Even if we didn't shut down, if other countries shutdown their production to combat this, that could very well still impact us. We already have trade issues that started before this. Now maybe one good of this could be that some businesses that have invested heavily overseas, may invest a little bit more back home. It could be possible.
     
  17. Notarealsignguy

    Notarealsignguy Active Member

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    Youre right, people will be very unhappy they survived a pandemic.
     
    • Hilarious! Hilarious! x 1
  18. Bobby H

    Bobby H Very Active Member

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    It's funny that you wrote this response to my post about the full potential of SARS-CoV-2, but you clearly didn't understand any of the points in that post. Really, that statement makes it look like you don't understand math concepts like ratio and proportion.

    You must have pulled that 30% mortality rate figure out of your backside. SARS-CoV-2 needs to have a 30% mortality rate for us to take it seriously?

    But just to humor that arbitrary figure, it would have actually been better if SARS-CoV-2 had a mortality rate that high. That would have made it more similar to the MERS-CoV coronavirus. Middle East Respiratory Syndrome has a relatively high mortality rate, over 30%. Any MERS infection is usually fast, severe and often fatal. But outbreaks of MERS have all been short-lived and confined to small geographic areas. The high mortality rate causes those outbreaks to burn themselves out very quickly. The same has happened with outbreaks of Ebola. Some strains of Ebola have mortality rates as high as 90%.

    What makes SARS-CoV-2 so dangerous is that it incubates for days without the infected person knowing he or she is infected and contagious. The virus is now proven to be far more contagious than flu viruses. 80% of those infected will have only minor symptoms. But the fact this virus can easily spread on a very massive scale gives it far greater potential to kill far more people than MERS or even freaking Ebola.

    Your suggestion that we get out of our cowardly hidey holes and go back to business as usual, to avoid financial devastation of our businesses, is just flat out stupidly reckless. Doing so would allow this virus to spread across the population unmitigated. As I said earlier, just with a 1% mortality rate over 2 million Americans would die. And that's assuming the health care system doesn't collapse. Americans doctors are already getting killed by COVID-19.

    If we want to talk financial devastation think about what would happen if millions of Americans died of the COVID-19 illness. Considering the demographics of who is most badly affected, older (and often white) Americans, the real estate and banking industries would be thrown into total upheaval. There would be a giant rash of mortgage failures. The life insurance industry wouldn't be able to absorb all those losses, assuming they would bother to cover those losses. Banking and real estate are cornerstones of our economy. Just on the individual level, a hospital stay to treat COVID-19 can utterly devastate the finances of most Americans. I'm personally not worried about possibly dying of COVID-19. I'm far more scared of getting infected and passing it to someone who could die of COVID-19. And I'm far more scared of an obscenely expensive hospital stay even with a survivable COVID-19 infection. I don't have that much money in the bank.

    One of out every 5 confirmed infections of SARS-CoV-2 is requiring hospitalization. Patients are often developing pneumonia or at least suffering from very acute immune system responses that often lead to pneumonia. Those who survive the hospital stay may end up with varying degrees of Pulmonary Fibrosis. It's permanent scarring of the lung tissue. The stiff, thicker tissue makes it harder to breathe. People with pulmonary fibrosis have a higher risk of future lung infections. Severe cases of fibrosis can require lung transplants.

    An infection from SARS-CoV-2 will often unleash a severe immune system response. The SARS-CoV-2 virus plugs into epithelial cells in the lungs. Those cells are the protective lining in the lungs, but SARS-CoV-2 turns those cells into virus production factories. The cells fill up with replicated viruses, then burst and spread the viruses to nearby healthy cells. The immune system attacks the invaders, but the response varies from one person to the next. In some people the immune system goes into full berzerker mode attacking healthy tissue just as much as it does the viruses. Others may have immune systems too weak to put up an effective fight, letting COVID-19 strip away that whole layer of epithelial cells on its own. In either scenario the alveoli air sacs in the lungs end up exposed and seriously injured. Chances become likely for the alveoli to get infected with bacteria and lead to pneumonia. If a patient's immune system already used up most of its ammunition responding to the initial COVID-19 infection the bacterial pneumonia can end up being lethal.

    If the patient is able to pull through and survive with the aid of lots of medical help, yeah, he or she may not recover 100%. Scarring of the lungs is a likely outcome.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2020
  19. JBurton

    JBurton Signtologist

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    I think after the tests come back they will tell us something. I think you are jumping to conclusions just because the news reported something as possible. Do you want to borrow my mat?
    [​IMG]
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Notarealsignguy

    Notarealsignguy Active Member

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    The math does not support the virus being here before January.
     
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