Applying graphics printed on clear reverse on glass question

[gabagoo]

I have known about this pretty much since being in this business but have never really got a straight forward answer.

We printed about 30 odd panels on clear in reverse and then laminated white behind them to be applied to a series of glass panels for a hospital. We used rapid tack to apply the graphics and trimmed everything down. They look absolutely amazing but every odd piece has that hazing look that you see between the film and the glass. I always figure it is some form of emulsion created from the wet adhesive. I can only figure over time it disappears...or does it? how does one avoid getting this to happen?

 

[reQ]

Optically clear overlam?

 

[BIG EASY DOES IT]

If you talking about a hazing that looks like thin bubbles. The same effect you get when laminating sometimes I believer It's called silvering and has something to do with the way the backer and the adhesive come off and the curing process of the adhesive to the substrate. It takes time and heat. Squeegee and some heat can get it to go away faster.

 

[reQ]

Just realized that you laminated with white backing... so would not matter in this case

 

[petepaz]

could be from wet installi think it may just be the adhesive, the optically clear probably would be better.

 

[gabagoo]

Maybe I worded it wrong..... We printed reverse on clear digital vinyl, we then laminated white over the print so that when applied you can see it..... The problem area is between the clear digital print and the glass. I have seen this happen many times before on plexi glass...usually dark colours will show this grey cloudy effect soon after install... I just want to know that it goes away once all the moisture finally dries out...

 

[papabud]

i did a similar job once, it was for pinball machines. clear glass with digital print under it and then some white vinyl.
i didnt do a wet install i actually just ran the glass through my laminater twice to stick the print and then the white on a second pass. worked fast and easy

 

[gabagoo]

i did a similar job once, it was for pinball machines. clear glass with digital print under it and then some white vinyl.
i didnt do a wet install i actually just ran the glass through my laminater twice to stick the print and then the white on a second pass. worked fast and easy

I considered doing it this way but was fearful of the glass possibly chipping while going through and possible bubbles at the start point....Maybe I should have at least tried one to see how bad it could get.

 

[Devon19515]

we installed printed clear subsurface of clear acrylic and got the hazing you described. We left it over the weekend and monday it was mostly gone. Little heat took care of the rest.

Black and white photos subsurface of acrylic without white backer. Put against a white wall and got a great subliminal image.

 

[d fleming]

Was it rt 2?

 

[gabagoo]

Was it rt 2?

I am not sure what that is?

 

[SignMeUpGraphics]

I am not sure what that is?

Rapid Tac 2

 

[Drip Dry]

A little off topic but, what material did you print on and what machine.
I'm trying to do it now, but getting poor results

 

[Andy D]

Back before we got our printer that prints color-white-color all in one pass, we had to apply
a print on clear vinyl, then white diffuser, and then register a second print on clear vinyl.... and we would have the same exact
problem, a white haze mostly showing up in the black.. sometimes white blotches.
We discovered that it was the adhesive on the clear we were using at the time (briteline), we switched to Oracal clear vinyl and
stopped using our homebrew app fluid, and only used the newest rapid tack for backlit projects... and that fixed it.

 

[gabagoo]

Naturally we got the call from the contractor that there were these blotches in the prints....so I spent 4 hours Sunday morning working on site in the new wing of the hospital. The images look fantastic on the walls but yes as you look close you can detect what I can only call some form of emulsion created from the wet adhesive. I applied heat but nothing happens. What I did see happen on one was that after heating it I could actually move the grey matter but it started to build up where it could no longer be moved due to the rest of the adhesive being dried and created a blotch that we now are reprinting. I also found many small areas of bubbles that you can't actually detect from the back side as it is such a small amount of moisture it just needs time to dry out...
What really irritates me on a job like this is that they had the contract for at least 6 months rebuilding the wing and actually left the graphics as the last piece of the puzzle. We only got final measurements and clearance on the images 4 days before it was due..... I will never allow myself to be put in a position like this again....

PS I used regular rapid tac as when I asked the supplier what the difference was with rapid tac 2 and regular, they said cold applications...

 

[MikePro]

ya, i get that while applying frosted vinyl with both rapidtac&soapy water. Couldn't tell you what it is, I just assumed that some of the adhesive broke-down with the water to create a "froth" that doesn't want to move as easily as the fluid itself.

I've found that working the graphic with heat after initial application clears it up really well. If I don't get it all out right-away, it will leave permanent "streaks" in my application.

 

[d fleming]

Rapid Tac 2 is for glass.

 

[gabagoo]

Rapid Tac 2 is for glass.

so as we can see suppliers don't know what they are selling... I would have gone with that had they mentioned it, but cold application was not an issue for this job... figures.....

 

[Andy D]

What really irritates me on a job like this is that they had the contract for at least 6 months rebuilding the wing and actually left the graphics as the last piece of the puzzle. We only got final measurements and clearance on the images 4 days before it was due..... I will never allow myself to be put in a position like this again....

That seems to be every job around here...To the customer, graphics and signs are an afterthought, until four days before the opening, and
then it's life or death. I blame Sales for not keeping on them and setting a hard deadline for art approval.

 

[JamesDeFelippo]

I've done similar to this... however my method might be slightly different.

I use a 2 sided clear mounting film when I do these.
Difference is, we apply it to a board afterwards.
HiTac works best(IMO). Use something that will peel the wall off the decal!!


I apply the mounting film to the print, then using a board(i use gatorboard because I like it better than foam) I apply the the print to the plexi. I leave about 4 inches on one end and use something as thick as the plex, mounted to the board to get things started and running straight.

Afterwards I apply the entire thing to gatorboard/MDO/whatever.

Result is amazing!! I just have to run the laminator slow and keep wiping to keep away rocks or dust from the static.....

You could probably do the same thing using poster paper or something non-adhesive if your mounting the glass with offsets(haven't tried that)

----------------

I did tests printing reverse on clear, then using a white vinyl on the back... but I would get the haze and weird bubble look to it. Despite heat and sitting there running my nails over every little piece... this method worked best for me! Slightly more expensive but personally I've always considered quality with price if the client is picky.