Arizona law and signmakers

[TammieH]

Really? When you go to a restaurant you just say "Bring whatever you have the most of" instead of selecting from the menu? Everyone should be forced to like Brussels sprouts?

Anyone should be able to like or not like and choose to associate or not associate with anyone or anything for any reason that strikes their fancy or no reason at all.

First, I have never said that people have to like me...I have people in my family who haven't accepted me, I will not hold bad feelings towards them.

I even champion for those who might be less than friendly towards me, I understand that we are a product of who our ancestors, parents, friends, relatives and whatever influences us through everyday life.

Basically, I accept everyone for who they are.

But, like I said I stay away from establishments that I know that I am not wanted in, and I don't begrudge them.

 

[Locals Find!]

As much as I hate typing this I agree with Gino and Bob both.

I want to reserve the right to refuse service to anyone. I am tired of seeing the LGBT community constantly suing whenever someone doesn't agree with their choices. I didn't get sued by the KKK when I refused to make banners for their white power golf tournament, the golf course didn't get sued when they refused to rent them the course for the tournament either. When I refused to make banners for the Catholic church against abortion people I wasn't sued. Nor was I sued when I refused to make banners for the pro-abortion people either.

So, why does the LGBT community feel the RIGHT and the NEED to sue anyone that refuses them service? I would venture most of these people so quick to sue are already coming in the door with bad attitudes and no one feels compelled to serve them anyway and looks for any excuse they can find quickly to refuse them.

If someone won't serve me for any reason. I don't sue them. I boycott their business, and find someone willing, ready, and able to take my money for whatever product or service I want to purchase.

I will never refuse service on someone's nationality or skin color. As far as modern science is concerned one makes a choice to be a racist, a member of the LGBT community, or (insert any religion here). They haven't found a genetic trait or marker for any of these conditions and, I can refuse service based on any "choice" you make I disagree with. That is not discrimination. It's the American way.

 

[Steve C.]

It boils down to this: My right to pick and choose what jobs I
am willing to take trumps anyones right to my services. I have
two gay customers I do banners for often. I have only ever
refused two customers. One had BO that took your breath, the
other was verbally abusive.

 

[CES020]

As a gay transexual, yes, I believe people should not be allowed to discriminate for any reason.

Regardless this is bad business practice for anyone, when you decide to alienate one class of people, you will also lose their supporters.

Having said that, I would not want to patronize these establishments in the first place. I would much rather give my hard earned dollars
to someone who is much more open, accepting or friendly.

So you don't want to patronize someone's business because of their beliefs? I'm confused. That sounds an awful lot like exactly what they are saying. They don't agree with your lifestyle, so they don't want to support you. When they do it, it's wrong, when you do it, it's standing together as a group to send a message?

I'm still trying to understand why I need to know who you have sex with or what's in your pants when you order a sign.

 

[Craig Sjoquist]

Like Gino also could careless who or what as long as they have money to pay me.

The government has done more damage to my business & me then any group of people or what not, including non payments in 39 years total.

& tired of government sticking there nose in everything making laws when jumping a fence illegally you get amnesty & free what ever, I had to go to Vietnam at least for my worth as a American.

 

[SignManiac]

I really don't care what others do behind closed doors. I'll make a sign for anyone that's willing to pay for it, even those damn religious nuts. Live and let live, we all get to die soon enough.

 

[Gino]

Well, with all of these confessions, I hafta admit.......................... I'm a lesbian, in a man's body. Trapped I should add........ and I like women.

If Dr Phil is around, I wonder who I can blame for this ?? I too, have known this for a very long time and my wife realizes she's married to a lesbian, but she got over it..... so to speak )))))

Besides, with Addie agreeing with me, just makes me wanna jump outside this skin of mine and become a fish, a turtle or gazelle and run away fast. I'm really scared, now. I don't care who serves me in the bar, restaurant or sign shop..... I just need to R U N !!
​

 

[TammieH]

So you don't want to patronize someone's business because of their beliefs? I'm confused. That sounds an awful lot like exactly what they are saying. They don't agree with your lifestyle, so they don't want to support you. When they do it, it's wrong, when you do it, it's standing together as a group to send a message?

I'm still trying to understand why I need to know who you have sex with or what's in your pants when you order a sign.

I will not patronize someone's establishment that does not want me there in the first place, or if they are offended by who I am

Just as if the owners of this website wanted me to leave, I would, without a peep.

 

[CES020]

I think you are missing my point. You are saying that it's okay for you to have an opinion about them and their beliefs, but it's not okay for them to have an opinion about your decisions or beliefs.

 

[Steve C.]

I think you are missing my point. You are saying that it's okay for you to have an opinion about them and their beliefs, but it's not okay for them to have an opinion about your decisions or beliefs.

I must have missed the point too. I didn't think she said that at all. I thought she said she would prefer to
do business with those who wanted her business and avoid the ones who did not. Which is what I also
believe people should do.

 

[CanuckSigns]

As much as I hate typing this I agree with Gino and Bob both.

I want to reserve the right to refuse service to anyone. I am tired of seeing the LGBT community constantly suing whenever someone doesn't agree with their choices. I didn't get sued by the KKK when I refused to make banners for their white power golf tournament, the golf course didn't get sued when they refused to rent them the course for the tournament either. When I refused to make banners for the Catholic church against abortion people I wasn't sued. Nor was I sued when I refused to make banners for the pro-abortion people either.

Pall of the items you list above are choices that one makes, no one is born into the kkk, or born into the church, some People however, are born gay, weather you believe that or not does not change a thing. If you refused service to someone because they are female, black, disabled etc, you're damn right you would be sued, as you should be.

 

[CES020]

I must have missed the point too. I didn't think she said that at all. I thought she said she would prefer to
do business with those who wanted her business and avoid the ones who did not. Which is what I also
believe people should do.

She said "I would much rather give my hard earned dollars to someone who is much more open, accepting or friendly."

The implication is that someone with a different view is not open, accepting, or even friendly. So if you don't agree with her, you are closed minded, and not friendly? That's my point.

 

[Locals Find!]

Pall of the items you list above are choices that one makes, no one is born into the kkk, or born into the church, some People however, are born gay, weather you believe that or not does not change a thing. If you refused service to someone because they are female, black, disabled etc, you're damn right you would be sued, as you should be.

You statement that some people are born gay is not backed by science. So, until I see scientific proof otherwise. Saying some people are born gay is strictly theoretical. Since, it is only a theory it is not a FACT. Therefore, it is not the same as being born white, black, brown, male or female. Which then makes it a choice. I can reserve my right to refuse service to anyone based on choices, without discriminating.

Which by the way I don't care if a gay person wants to do business with me as long as the money is green and I am not being forced to do something I find objectionable they are treated like any other customer. With lousy service, sub-par design, and over priced products.

 

[GAC05]

It's all done now
you can't legally pray away the gay any more in Az.
Maybe they can get back to working on the security problems with the border.

wayne k
guam usa

 

[cmykpro]

Ahhh the never ending double standard debate now hits my sign forum....

My feelings;
Live and let live. Regardless of who supports what, it is not fair for one side to treat the other poorly because they don't support the others ways. I may not agree with your lifestyle but I am also not your judge and certainly wish no one any harm. This country was based on religious freedom (Knights Templar) and I believe we should hold this true for not only religion but to all things that promote equality. As long as your not causing harm to my family I could care less what you do....

 

[SignosaurusRex]

Arizona SB 1062 is not Anti-Gay per say. It merely reinforces the right of a business owner to refuse services to anyone based on the business owners religious beliefs. Unfortunately, the LGBT community and the media have distorted it into being an Anti Gay measure and unfortunately it was also written with broad wording. It would have had severe unintended consequences to all sides had it passed. Thankfully Jan Brewer has vetoed 1062.
As A business owner, I have done (and will continue to) work for all walks... from the Federal level to the lowest of scumbags and everyone else in between including the likes of Paul Allen, Bill gates, Howard Schultz, LGBT, Pimps, Porn Peddlers, Strip clubs, Gangsters, Mafioso, etc. Everyone fits into a category somewhere. I may not agree with or like who they are or what they do, what they stand for or what they believe. If I'm offended, That's my problem. I alone choose to be offended. Beyond that, they have a right to have a sign. If I don't want to supply a service, I have any number of reasons to deny them without them being offended. If I choose to provide what is requested... WIN! for both sides. In the end, It ($) all folds, spindles, mutilates, burns and spends the same. The $ will make its way to a G-string in a strip club or a collection plate in a house of worship one way or the other. Who am I to judge how or what it takes to get it there? If I were a Florist and wanted to deny my Floral services to a Gay couple's wedding, yet was forced by law to go against my religious beliefs and provide my service, would they still want my service and be happy? How about the Bakery making the cake? Wouldn't the Bakery or Florist soon be "Out of Business"? Live and Let live...It's only biz. Beyond that, If one (or a group) wanna sue a biz owner or a biz owner wants to turn it into a media circus, they are an Attention Whore! The best way to deal with that...IGNORE!

 

[Stanton]

I scanned forward heavy duty.

Only read Gino's crap.
I have a new respect for this man.

Verbose and correct.

I have two gay friends. (not partners).
You want to get laid a bunch?
Get some gay friends.

They will hook you up with the girls.

Their money is as green as mine.



And the dinner parties are wine filled fun.
Get over your inflicted god filled self.



Also, black people are cool.







Jeeze.

You people are missing out on life.

 

[Marlene]

As a gay transexual, yes, I believe people should not be allowed to discriminate for any reason.

People in the community have died in the past because hospitals, doctors and emergency medical techs have refused to give aid to some people
in the LGBT community.

I too believe people should not be discriminated for any reason and am glad this bill did not go thru. what I don't understand is people seeing the rights of all being protected as a bad thing. treating all as equals also protects those with strong religious beliefs as no one will turn them away from a lunch counter either.

what I find sad Tammie is that you had to say you are a gay transexual. that should just be who you are and not something that singles you out as "different". I'm a straight woman and never need to tell anyone that. I hope there will come a day when people are just people.

 

[Gino]

I too believe people should not be discriminated for any reason and am glad this bill did not go thru. what I don't understand is people seeing the rights of all being protected as a bad thing. treating all as equals also protects those with strong religious beliefs as no one will turn them away from a lunch counter either.

what I find sad Tammie is that you had to say you are a gay transexual. that should just be who you are and not something that singles you out as "different". I'm a straight woman and never need to tell anyone that. I hope there will come a day when people are just people.

However, you worked it into the conversation, huh ??


I tell people I'm married, a businessman, a Christian, white, I like to drink, have fun and so on. These are all descriptions which make up who I am as a person. I think they're called adjectives. No way, no how do I feel like I hafta say these things, but it makes it easier to break the ice with some others. Most of you saying you want the world to become one big bff world order..... you need to think back about 40 or so years ago.... and I'm surprised you Marlene, hasn't figured this out. Star Trek had the 'World Federation' which was to my knowledge, a unified Earth. So, we all got along with each other with little to no regards for gender, lifestyle, marital status or anything. So, we all got along swimmingly. However, we were in constant turmoil and doing battle with every other planet in the galaxy. Heck, we even fought the gods and proved their existence. So by nature, we don't get along with anyone or anything we don't understand and/or can dissect first.

Let it rest, stop bickering with each other and let's have a tug-O-war and see who wins...... ??
​

 

[Marlene]

However, you worked it into the conversation, huh ??

do you understand making a point? it is when you make a statement to show that you normally don't need to bring it up. so yes, I "worked" it into the conversation as I was making a point that I never need to tell anyone what I am as it is considered the "norm". what I consider the "norm" is people are people and who cares about the rest. we shouldn't have separate rules for those deemed "different" and that is just what this entire thread is about, the attempt to do just that. get it now Gino or do you just want to say stuff for the sake of saying it so you can fight about something?

Most of you saying you want the world to become one big bff world order..... you need to think back about 40 or so years ago.... and I'm surprised you Marlene, hasn't figured this out. Star Trek had the 'World Federation' which was to my knowledge, a unified Earth. So, we all got along with each other with little to no regards for gender, lifestyle, marital status or anything. So, we all got along swimmingly. However, we were in constant turmoil and doing battle with every other planet in the galaxy. Heck, we even fought the gods and proved their existence. So by nature, we don't get along with anyone or anything we don't understand and/or can dissect first.

just because we don't care what gender/marital status or whatever else doesn't mean we all love each other as there will always be jerks out there. treating each other as equals does mean we all love each other. thought you were smarter than this