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Best place to hire experienced sign people?

FireSprint.com

Trade Only Screen & Digital Sign Printing
The reason my signweb posting is basic is because if I say "You must have a minimum of 5 years experience in project management, or you must be above 35 years old or you must have mig welding experience" I would lose a ton of potential people. I want to find some people first and then see what they have to offer. A little experience is better than no experience in certain cases.

I'm only 33. Guess you wouldn't hire me... :)

We use indeed. We're patient and try to be as clear as possible. We're also happy to hire people with limited experience and train them the FireSprint way.

I'm learning that our best people have a good attitude, and some technical experience in some kind of unrelated field. Just so we know they can do the job.

One question I ask on the phone is "What's 7/8th plus a quarter?" many can't answer that, and it's not the ultimate decider, but it gives us an idea of how they might solve a quick problem presented to them.
 

DerbyCitySignGuy

New Member
I got a job at a start up sign shop when I was straight out of high school with no experience other than a 2 year graphic design program. They started me out at $8/hr. Once I was there for 3 months and they realized I was worth the money they upped me to $12/hr which at the time was living the high life for me. That was about 13 years ago and in a medium sized city. These days if you live in a bigger city like Denver $12/hr isn't enough to pay rent let alone feel compensated. I agree with you. It's offensive to offer anything less.

A couple years ago a guy tried to offer me $12 an hour to do his graphic design, but also run his eco-solvent, the laminator, do finishing, and also handle walk in customers. At the time I was making not quite double that and I was shocked at that low ball offer. Like wide-eyed, mouth open shocked. When I explained to him that he wasn't going to hire someone to do that for $12 an hour, he informed he could hire a teenager to do it for less than that and $12 an hour was a generous offer. I was like, "Good luck. Thanks for your time."

Before I left he gave me some interview tips. I think I strained my eyeballs, I rolled them so hard.
 

Bigdawg

Just Me
When I show up to a shop I'm working for, what I find most often is a designer can't design so the client has no choice... though I do agree, clients are their own worst enemy... I don't see design as art, I see it as a solution, that may make it objective, most clients see art and design subjectively and thats may not end up with a good result.

I get bad files all the time, I get paid to fix them or review them so I have no problems with that, what I take issue with is signs not being code compliant... a get a lot of files from sign shops that are way off and have to deal with sign shop designers thinking they know what they are doing... it's refreshing to get a sign shop designer who know what they are doing.

That's a pretty broad brush you are painting sign shop designers with, my friend.

We are not all ignorant, non-compliant, can't-design-to-save-our-life fools that are portrayed above. Maybe it's the quality of the shops you go into??? Or maybe they hired you because they are aware of their designer's limitations. While there are certainly some of those "can't design" designers in our area, the majority of the other sign shops I deal with here have designers that are more than up to the task of doing the job correctly.

While we can't all be you or Philip or Joe Diaz on the design scale, there are a lot of of us out here that DO follow the codes... and DO provide eye-catching graphics (in a good way) that promote our clients' businesses. So yeah... I can get where the "if you don't like sign shops..." comment came from (even though I know it's not an accurate one - and you will always be my favorite circle designer).
 

DerbyCitySignGuy

New Member
On the flip side, getting files from agencies almost always means spending at least a half hour (if not more) making the file print ready.
 

Rick

Certified Enneadecagon Designer
That's a pretty broad brush you are painting sign shop designers with, my friend.

We are not all ignorant, non-compliant, can't-design-to-save-our-life fools that are portrayed above. Maybe it's the quality of the shops you go into??? Or maybe they hired you because they are aware of their designer's limitations. While there are certainly some of those "can't design" designers in our area, the majority of the other sign shops I deal with here have designers that are more than up to the task of doing the job correctly.

While we can't all be you or Philip or Joe Diaz on the design scale, there are a lot of of us out here that DO follow the codes... and DO provide eye-catching graphics (in a good way) that promote our clients' businesses. So yeah... I can get where the "if you don't like sign shops..." comment came from (even though I know it's not an accurate one - and you will always be my favorite circle designer).

So most people do not know what I do, I design sign packages for larger multi property clients most in the US, some all over the world, and they go out to bid, we have all the colors called out, materials, method of construction, we have the signs located and a message schedule... in most instances, the shop has to copy and paste, size up and output. Occasionally they need to be engineered and typeset. They usually go out to bid by a project manager from a construction company and it's our job to make sure the process is followed. It's an open bid, so naturally we get bottom feeder sign shops, we also get larger shops. Since we are usually the "gatekeeper" to the rebranding projects, we have to review all submittals and occasionally the Client will work directly with the shop to add additional signs. I get more mistakes and poor workmanship than I get designers doing it correctly, While I do enjoy whipping my red pen and correcting the shops (and charging my hourly rate) it makes me cringe thinking what is happening on the site 3000 miles away. I have work because quite a few shops are not knowledgable about codes and basic sign construction - even though they carry around a contractors license. I'm going to a job we did in the next few weeks to take pictures where the sign shop used attachments on the face of panels instead of the hidden attachments I drew out. Little things that drive me crazy... or they substitute typefaces or maybe ignore the typeface altogether if they don't have it, nothing aligned correctly, poor kerning... it's all the time....

Now on your comment about designing like me, Phillip, or Joe.... gosh first I'm not really in their league most of the time because in my line of work, I'm a turd polisher like most sign designers who occasionally gets to design. I don't want sign shops to be be all that "great" for 2 reasons, it's not needed all the time, and it makes my work look that much better :). I believe Clients choose bad design, we don't have to give it to them unless they ask for it... Just don't post it on a companies website. I been to 2 shops this monthk and the quality of work is so poor but I realized the owners don't care, they want to sell signs... they want a person who can run the machines and Onyx and hopefully design on whatever spirograph design software they have.

So yesterday I may have been a little sore from a client I have had for 10 years... they are finally designing on their own - they have 5 designers - yes, 5!!!! and I get a package where they want me to get the permit package ready for the monument, they accidentally sent me the while package... again, multiple typefaces, bad leading and kerning, non-compliant typeface sizes - a mess - this after 10 years of me redlining their cr@p - drives me loco - so maybe I was a put out by that and it spilled out in my posts.... sowwy.... I love you too

By the way, circles are so 2016!
 
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Bigdawg

Just Me
I'm glad you spelled out what y'all do for those that don't know you and your partner (who I also love and adore). You guys definitely have the "sign cred" needed to do the job right - and I have to admit it would (and does) make me crazy when people don't follow the specs. Dammit... they are there for a reason!

The majority of sign shops (at least in my area) aren't trying to do the type of work you are describing. So it seems you have a couple different types of shops that you interact with. Those that will follow your spec to the T and do it right. And those that shouldn't be bidding to begin with. My point was only to say that there a lot of good designers in shops that wouldn't bid your jobs - because they know their capabilities and what you need isn't within their scope - so you don't get to see the small shops that are putting out good work for their customer base.

Don't sell yourself short on how good your designs are... I've always liked your style.

Is Enneadecagon design 2017 or 2018? I just want to be prepared :wink:
 

myront

CorelDRAW is best
...make me crazy when people don't follow the specs. Dammit...
:wink:

I've gotten many "sign specs" from companies where the math doesn't add up and no font specified. 0r calls for 4" LH Helvetica which becomes way too long to fit within "the specs" now what? "Can't you just squish it!"
 

Bigdawg

Just Me
That's when you discuss WHY the specs won't work. What we usually do in those cases is send a proof showing what they asked for and then one showing what will work. We send a proof on everything anyway - even supplied spec jobs.

Sorry for the thread hijack ams!
 

AKwrapguy

New Member
When hiring for positions, aside from the obvious experience, what do you guys look for? To you what makes one candidate more desirable than another?
 

MikePro

New Member
buy a house!
seriously. I was shopping for my first home purchase and while inspecting a potential buy & noticed the neighbor had a bunch of transformers in his garage. Turns out he was a sign guy working for an outfit about 30min away from us. Asked him how he liked the drive everyday, through milwaukee traffic, and long-story-short we've got a new lead installer.
 

Mattie_BR

New Member
How much value an individual creates or adds will ultimately dictate his or her payment rate.

Professionals looking for jobs in small shops, will have a lower ceiling of added-value, compared to working for larger companies.

Getting back to the original question, we focused now, after many hiring and firing experiences, on a certain attitude and professional characteristics rather than actual experience in the industry.

Teaching and training professionals with non-significant experience, seems easier to us than the adaptation process of a highly experienced person.

Eventually, if our company grows, we might not be able to continue with this approach as projects become more intense and/or we reduce our outsourced production.

For graphic designers we had good experience with ZipRecruiter and production professionals with referrals or training young guys from scratch.
 
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