whatsinaname
New Member
Can any desktop sized pigment based ink printer printers like Epson SC-P407 print on printable Vinyls like IJ-180c etc? Or do we need a special ink to print on such vinyl? Which printer do you use for designing your prints?
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Can any pigment based ink printer print on Vinyl?
- Thread starter whatsinaname
- Start date
ChicagoGraphics
New Member
No you need eco-solvent printer at least
and media with special coatings is much more expensive
for years, many did.
iit certainly wasn't fair to the client
Depending on display conditions, and assuming protective topcoats are used- this may not be true for desktop and/or wide-format aqueous inkjet pigment ink.
dreko
New Member
If you are using pigments, they should be somewhat archival. Water soluble dyes would have faded fast... but Epson Ultrachrome inks, or HP, or Canon pigments are pretty stable. There are aqueous coated vinyls but not many choices... keep in mind vinyl is NOT a long term substrate. 7-9 years is the longest lasting cast vinyl and inevitably, it will start to deteriorate.
somcalmetim
New Member
Depends where it is, that 7-9 year number is only the ever shrinking amount of time that 3M will stand behind their product...it doesn't really have much to do with how it actually lasts in the field. 180c may start to fade and deteriorate after 7-9 years of full constant sun/road wear but solvent printed 180c will last much longer than 7-9 years in most cases. It doesn't just fall apart with age if not being acted upon by outside forces....the laminate 3M suggest for this 7-9 year vinyl is now only rated for 3-5 years ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. We still see it last 10-15+ years outdoor if properly installed on horizontal surface.
I have old decals printed on Roland Pro2 that stayed indoor and look just like they did 10-15 years ago...it all depends where the print is going....archival paper likely wont last unchanged in full sun or work for the use case if the OP is attempting to print vinyl.
Possibly if only used indoors and never in any direct sunlight, but certainly not for outdoor / vehicle use etc... Topcoats can help, but they aren't really a proper way of doing it compared to printing with non water based inks and you don't have any real guarantee of how long it is going to protect them.
I certainly wouldn't feel happy selling a customer water based printed work for anything other than temporary short term use
whatsinaname
New Member
Forgot to mention that we need this printer just for designing our samples. I mean I know this output will not be the same as the eco-solvent printers but this could be somewhat close to how we want it in the Eco-solvent printers.
So the process would be like designing our artworks using this sampling printer, finalizing the designs and then again taking 1-2 prints in the actual eco-solvent or UV printer to get the color profiles perfect.
We will be using them for decals and stickers for mobile devices. And we definitely would be using a laminate over it. So if the printer is good enough we can do some short production runs if possible. Otherwise we will use it just for the design and sampling.
So the process would be like designing our artworks using this sampling printer, finalizing the designs and then again taking 1-2 prints in the actual eco-solvent or UV printer to get the color profiles perfect.
We will be using them for decals and stickers for mobile devices. And we definitely would be using a laminate over it. So if the printer is good enough we can do some short production runs if possible. Otherwise we will use it just for the design and sampling.
GaSouthpaw
Profane and profane accessories.
Don't forget that "7-9 years" is just for the unprinted vinyl/media. Once it's printed, that number drops drastically. Last time I checked, the warranty on most printed media from manufacturers was only 3-5 years (and 5 was an outlier, if I recall), and that warranty is only valid if you use the matching laminate, the correct printer and inkset, and proper finishing.
As to the OP's question, the answer is pretty much a no.
As to the OP's question, the answer is pretty much a no.
If you are using it for that, do the design yourself and just get a local print shop using solvent printers to print them out for you. Would be cheaper and you would know exactly what you are getting without having to adjust colours from the sample.
Water based printers give a very different finished result than a solvent printer running in high quality will. You will never get the same density or vibrancy of colour from water based
Really?
so you are leaning towards inferior quality, faster fading and approx 8 times the cost per sq. ft for your substrates?
Yes, if you are printing logos rather than jpeg / photo type images, and printing in high quality with overprints you can get results the same as screen printing with solvent inks. I'm not saying water based inks can't produce some good prints, but I have never seen any that are comparable for anywhere near the printer cost
I can't get the density (display light boxes), and materials cost way more, but colour gamut and detail, I'll take the pepsi challenge. And printer cost is way lower. I don't think there is any cast vinyl available for aqueous pigment, but with a good laminate, I've had prints in direct (London) sun for 5+ years with no visible image deteriation.
That said, aqueous is the wrong technolgy for this purpose.
That's the risk. Prints 'may' last ok with aqueous ink and laminated, or they many not, and do you really want to be replacing them after 6 months and losing your reputation ? Solvent inks are tried and tested for outdoor use, and we all know they are suitable for this. They also don't need laminating for a lot of applications.
If you were starting out now with no printer, would you buy a water based one knowing it's not really suitable for what you are using it for and may or may not be ok, or spend out more on a solvent printer you know isn't going to cause problems?
Also for the application the OP is talking about, you can load the artwork into a print and cut solvent machine, and get finished decals ready to apply out of without having to do any further steps.
That said, aqueous is the wrong technolgy for this purpose.
I'm in a wierd edge scenario - 90% of my clients are galleries, artists and photographers. The exterior pieces I make are usually short term, and as an addition to/for the art clients. But some of the work goes up, and five years later is still up, even though we talked with the client that it was a solution to the 3-6month duration of the activity.
I suspect that an 80600 is in my future, but from all I've seen and heard, it'll not make the cut for maybe 80% of what we currently do (gallery, art, etc). But it will allow us to expand the vinyl, phototex and banner sides of things, as well as quick and cheap poster / blue back.
I'm in a wierd edge scenario - 90% of my clients are galleries, artists and photographers. The exterior pieces I make are usually short term, and as an addition to/for the art clients. But some of the work goes up, and five years later is still up, even though we talked with the client that it was a solution to the 3-6month duration of the activity.
I suspect that an 80600 is in my future, but from all I've seen and heard, it'll not make the cut for maybe 80% of what we currently do (gallery, art, etc). But it will allow us to expand the vinyl, phototex and banner sides of things, as well as quick and cheap poster / blue back.
JBurton
Signtologist
Why?
Or rather, why not print on paper? Or even transparency if you want something closer to a film. I mean, if you have a production machine, then tell them to suck it up and wait the 10 minutes it will take to come out of it, but if they want to see how a salt life sticker looks with a green background, they can run it on paper and play pretend.