Caveat Emptor: (Thinking of buy Wasatch Softrip?)

jimmys · Mar 11, 2010

Caveat Emptor: (Thinking of buying Wasatch Softrip?)

After trying unsuccessfully a number of times to speak to Tech support at Wasatch. I sent the following email to all the addresses on the Wasatch website hoping to find a customer service minded individual.

“My computer crashed and I lost my hard drive with everything in it; including my Wasatch 6.1 Install file. My Serial number is XXXXX. Can you please email me a copy of the install file?
I have my key and my codes, just the install file is missing.

Thanks in advance!

Jimmy “

He is the reply I got:

Hi Jimmy,

Sorry, we can’t do that for 2 reasons :

1- The service contract for Serial Number XXXXX expired on April 11, 2007.
So, as long as you don’t have a service Contract in good standing we can’t provide you any support.
2- We don’t keep older versions: the current version is 6.6.
The only way to solve your issue is to upgrade to version 6.6.
Pricing for upgrade and service packages varies by product; I believe in your case it would be:
US/Canadian Pricing in US Dollars
Standard Large Format SoftRIP $599
SoftRIP Small Format Edition $299
SoftRIP Desktop Edition $299
SoftRIP SP Large Format Edition $599
SoftRIP SP Small Format Edition $599
SoftRIP SP Desktop Edition $299
SoftRIP TX $599

Every upgrade includes 6 months of technical support and free updates during the tenure of your contract.
From your e-mail address, I assume you are based in the USA; the best would be to contact your Wasatch reseller and order this upgrade.
Best regards,
Philippe Duval
WEMEA Channel Manager

Phone: + 32 (0) 474 478 352 or
HelpDesk after 15:30 GMT: +1-801-575-6315

Email: pduval@wasatch.com
Web: www.wasatch.com
Skype: pduval

Dear Philippe:

Thank you your prompt reply:

First of all, I am not asking you for support.

It would have taken you less time to send me the download link to the file I asked for than it did to write you reply.

I have never heard of a company that refuses to give you a copy of software you bought and paid for from them.

It is obvious that being told by your company that you no longer have a copy of a product that has only had minor upgrades (since the version I have; 6.1), is just a ploy to extract more money from me for something I do not need or want.
I am not interested in upgrading Wasatch Softrip; because the sales rep and customer service personal I have dealt with at your company are callous, and seem to delight from being unhelpful.

The only pleasant experience I have had with you company was dealing with your support personnel, however, as I have been told several times (again, expending more time and energy that it would have taken just to email me the link to download the file) I can only speak to them if I have paid the $299.00 biannual maintenance contract price that you demand (In my case you want $599.00).

$600.00 a year seems like a pretty steep price to pay for a product that (in my case, as I have the cutting option and variable data option), retails for $3745.00 (Three thousand seven hundred and forty five dollars).

I am sure everyone that posts questions on the internet asking opinions over whether to purchase Wasatch Softrip, or a competing program, will be very interested to find this out about your company.

Therefore, as a service to my fellow colleagues, (before they make the same mistake I did by buying Wasatch Softrip), I intend to post your reply on Large Printing related sites such as Signs101.com, BigPicture.net, PrintPlanet.com, Graphic esignForum.com and any others I can find.
This will probably hurt your sales, but so has your company’s refusal to provide me with a product I paid you for. (These names come from a Google search and I am not associated or affiliated with any of these sites)
Also, I’m sure your competitors will also appreciate receiving a copy of this email)

Have a great day;

Jimmy Rivera

cc: wct@wasatch.com

G-Artist · Mar 11, 2010

I've met them at various show over the years and I do not care how highly printer companies recommend their product it is something I'd never buy (because they gave me the creeps and were extremely haughty).

Your experience confirms that and thank you for posting as it comes at a juncture where I may have to purchase a RIP in the very near future.

joeshaul · Mar 11, 2010

"We don't keep older versions"....... What kind of ignorant BS excuse is that, as a former programmer I find it an idiotic thing to say. They don't keep the files but the good ol mates at Piratebay do? What business are they trying to be in with that kind of attitude?

Imagine how many customers we'd lose if we told them that. "That sign you made a year ago, I'd like another for a new location", "oh, yeah, about that, we don't keep older designs".

ChiknNutz · Mar 11, 2010

That is a bunch of crap. I've used SoftRip since version 5.1 or 5.3 and currently have 6.5. Though I've not had a HD crash to lose everything, I find that very ridiculous that they can find no empathy to provide you with just a link. Maybe I can figure out a way to get you what you need.

FatCat · Mar 11, 2010

I've only been a Wasatch user since last year. I currently have a service contract, and they've helped me on numerous occasions - BUT - I also did sense something in their attitude. A bit of arrogance perhaps, almost like I was bothering them. It wouldn't hurt them to brush up on their people skills. Still, the software is good and does what it needs to do.

I think it's pretty lousy how they're treating you, but in the same breath a backup copy would have saved your bacon. With the relatively low price of external drives, etc. there is absolutely no excuse these days to not have backups of important files.

tracey.peterson · Mar 11, 2010

I hate to be "that dude" but I have a couple of comments here.

First off, backups for the win. Basically what you're asking here is for them to provide backup service for you. In a situation where you're paying several thousand dollars for a product, not backing up is like not paying insurance on your vehicle.

Second, this isn't all that different from a great many other situations. If, for example, you have a movie that you leave out in the sun, would you expect the manufacturer to send you a download link to get it again? How about if you drop your ipod in the sink and lose all the music? Have a hot new video game that you accidentally delete the install folder for? Windows installation got hosed and you need a new installation disk? Again, backups are your friend. Whether you think a provider of intellectual property *should* provide copies or not, often times they won't, and it's on you to make sure your investments are safe after purchase.

Third, the idea that "not keeping old software" is shocking is a rather ludicrous one. Not only will you find this with Wasatch, but also with Onyx, Roland's Versaworks, Adobe's software, etc. That's not to say "if everybody does it it's ok" but rather to point out that keeping old software available for download is rather silly. The idea is to improve your software over time, not hold on to older versions that don't have the improvements of later versions. Even open source software will only keep old versions around for so long after new versions are released. In the case of a RIP company, they give you free access to all versions of their software for the life of your service contract. Beyond that time, if you don't renew your contract, you are saying "I no longer need your services, I'm good to go on my own." Next time back up before you tell your service folks to pound sand, just to beat this horse one more time.

Fourth, the idea that all RIP companies base profitable revenue on waiting in the shadows like vultures for your hard disk to crash is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Or do you think RIP companies are in cahoots with hard disk manufacturers in a clever plot to milk not only $300 for months of renewed service, but a double whammy of the cost of a new hard disk? Maybe your own IT staff is in on it (who, at this point, really should know how to copy an installation disk to a hard drive that's NOT about to explode by now, even if only by reading my post).

And last, to attribute "haughtiness" or "arrogance" to their various support members (some of whom provide excellent and on-point advice and help on forums such as this one in their own free time) from an e-mail you received from a sales rep simply because you don't agree with their business policies rather stinks like sour grapes. These guys are there to help you, and given the rather rare expertise you can get from them, it's not unreasonable to expect to pay $300 for access for several months.

The reason a RIP manufacturer exists is to make sure you have access to the best product and brightest technicians that a RIP company can provide. That's how they stand out, and how they become profitable. In the RIP industry, this means support contracts. Rather than complain about it, take advantage of it. Get the latest software, call their support, and become a better printer.

And no, I'm not a Wasatch employee, just strongly opinionated, and have ALWAYS been taken care of by Wasatch and Onyx both. I find the value of a service contract FAR outweighs the cost to renew it every 6 months - especially considering the ink to run cleanings on my machines costs more than reliable, knowledgeable service for my software.

Blast away, if you like.

Adam Bennett · Mar 11, 2010

I had a very similar situation with them. My anti-virus software attacked my copy of 6.5 so I had to downgrade and wait for a fix. (they were able to send me a link to downgrade) MEANWHILE my service contract expires.

When I called them back to see if they had rectified the issue with my AV software, i was told I could not talk to any of the tech support agents, and that "they were unaware of any unresolved support issues"

Furthermore, they treated me like a criminal because they had just release 6.6 (two days before my contract expired) and thought I was just trying to upgrade for free.

I sent a few email expressing my dissatisfaction with their service and support but didn't get a response.

Letterbox Mike · Mar 11, 2010

tracey.peterson said:
How about if you drop your ipod in the sink and lose all the music?

I dropped my iPod in a puddle actually and it got ruined. Apple sent me a download link to redownload all 3000+ songs I'd ever purchased, some of which were downloaded 3 or more years ago, with no questions asked.

My RIP computer was fried about a year and a half ago. I could not locate my original Onyx 6.0 disks. Onyx sent me a download link to v. 7.1 with no questions asked (aside from my dongle number). I also lost Signlab e6 on the same computer. Signlab allowed me to redownload the same version for free (mind you at this time e6 was a good 5+ years old).

I had to reinstall my OS on one of my design stations because of a nasty virus and had to reinstall all of the design software. I did not have access at the time (impatient, they were at home) to my Adobe CS4 suite disk. Adobe graciously allowed me to download the suite again, no questions asked. Hot Door allowed me to download Cad Tools again. Alien Skin allowed me to download Eye Candy again.

Not to be a d!ck, but your point is not valid and what Wasatch is trying to pull is BS, especially since the software's not even moved up to a truly new version, just an updated build.

You just cannot treat customers that way. It's an outright lie that they do not have access to the install file, it a way to back someone into a corner to force money out of them. It's extortion, plain and simple.

Pat Whatley · Mar 11, 2010

His point is completely valid. Just because some companies choose to replace software does not mean that all companies have to. Their only obligation was to provide you ONE working copy. Hell, look at all the threads here about charging customers every time they come back wanting the logo they paid for on a disk because they lost it.

Anyway....the same thing happened to us with FlexiSign. One of our cds was scratched so we couldn't do an install on a new computer. Flexi insisted on selling us an upgrade. We thought we could bypass them by borrowing a copy from another shop only to learn that each disk was unique to it's dongle. In the end we raised enough hell with our supplier that they got us the upgrade at 50% off.

Now, all of that said a question comes to mind: If you've already purchased it, have the legal papers, dongles, keys, passwords or whatever....is it illegal to download a torrent of that software to replace the missing software? I'm not suggesting it or supporting it....I'm just asking.

Letterbox Mike · Mar 11, 2010

Pat Whatley said:
Just because some companies choose to replace software does not mean that all companies have to.

You're right, they don't have to help someone out who spent a good sum of money for a product and is in an innocent pickle. Some choose to provide good customer service and help a guy out when he's in need. Other's choose not to. To say it isn't about trying to squeeze money out of him is a joke. Of course money is what it comes down to. It's not rocket science or a massive undertaking to send the guy an install link (he's right, it would have taken significantly less time to do that than write the reply they did), doing so would be a courteous thing to do for a paying customer. He's not asking for tech support or a ton of time resolving an issue, he just wants a simple file he's already paid for. It comes down to customer service or a lack thereof, plain and simple.

I'm a proponent of maintaining service or support contracts on certain things, RIP software being one of them. But I strongly believe this doesn't even come close to belonging in the realm of a support contract. It's a customer service issue.

If I sold a logo to a customer and included with that were copies of their logo on CD, and they lost that CD and lost the files on their computer due to a HD failure and needed new copies, I could not fathom having the nerve to charge that customer for another CD. If it happened over and over and over I'd have to put an end to it, but it's just common courtesy and good business to help someone out when they need it. Think about it like this: If Wasatch had obliged and given the guy what he needed, would they be being blasted all over the internet right now for their utter lack of support or would they be being praised for going the extra mile to make sure a customer was satisfied? They may not have squeezed $600 out of him but they probably would have earned a customer for a long time to come and who knows how much more than that he may have spent in the future. Instead, they drove a customer away and who really knows how much other business they've lost now because of it. Certainly not millions of dollars, but losing just one sale on a $3800 piece of software sure seems like it would have been worth helping the guy out.

Pat Whatley · Mar 12, 2010

insignia said:
...he just wants a simple file he's already paid for.

And that he's already been given, you seem to keep forgetting that point.

We just disagree on the level of customer service we expect merchants we do business with to provide, no big deal.

signage · Mar 12, 2010

All I can say is this bring up a big point, you own a business you need to create backups to protect you software and files! I was taught a long time a go to make copies of all software discs and you those to install software and keep originals in the box!

Sorry to here that they will not help you!

jimmys · Mar 12, 2010

re: Caveat Emptor - Wasatch Softrip

<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name="ProgId" content="Word.Document"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 14"><meta name="Originator" content="Microsoft Word 14"><link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CJimmy%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><link rel="themeData" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CJimmy%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_themedata.thmx"><link rel="colorSchemeMapping" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CJimmy%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_colorschememapping.xml"><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:TrackMoves/> <w:TrackFormatting/> <w

unctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w

oNotPromoteQF/> <w:LidThemeOther>EN-US</w:LidThemeOther> <w:LidThemeAsian>X-NONE</w:LidThemeAsian> <w:LidThemeComplexScript>X-NONE</w:LidThemeComplexScript> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w

ontGrowAutofit/> <w:SplitPgBreakAndParaMark/> <w:EnableOpenTypeKerning/> <w

ontFlipMirrorIndents/> <w:OverrideTableStyleHps/> </w:Compatibility> <m:mathPr> <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/> <m:brkBin m:val="before"/> <m:brkBinSub m:val="--"/> <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/> <m:dispDef/> <m:lMargin m:val="0"/> <m:rMargin m:val="0"/> <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/> <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/> <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/> <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/> </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><style>  </style> I want to thank everyone for your words of support, encouragement and advise.

Unfortunately, Wasatch is acting deaf and mute and is totally ignoring my emails about this subject.<o

></o

>
(Even Phillipe, who emailed to tell me he was going to pass on my messages to the president and owner; and probably got spanked for his attempt at helping a customer).

How is that for great customer service?

Back in the day, Quark had a similar attitude, when they were the defacto standard in DP. Today Adobe is eating their dinner.

I think it's time to contact the competition (Flexisign? Onyx?; and request a "sidegrade".<o

></o

>

signage · Mar 12, 2010

Jimmy contact Signlab and see what a cross grade would cost!

Billct2 · Mar 12, 2010

Both sides have their point of view, but the point of the thread was the particular customer service/support provided by this vendor.
It appears that if you buy their software their concern for you ends the moment the contract ends. Whereas other companies will continue to provide some level of service as a way to keep customers loyal.
The one point no one diasagrees on is BACK UP is king.

ChiknNutz · Mar 12, 2010

So, who wants to buy my Wasatch SoftRIP :biggrin:

jimmys · Mar 12, 2010

GXSignCo said:
So, who wants to buy my Wasatch SoftRIP

I apologize if I, (inadvertently), may have created a situation which reduces the interest in or the value of your Wasatch Softrip.

I must say I have no complaints about the product. As a matter of fact, I have been using mine without needing any support for over two (2) years.

I was going to upgrade when I found out about it’s new ability to automatically create contour cuts, but Wasatch shot themselves in the foot.

As a few members have mentioned here, there is a problem with their people skills.

However, the program is very intuitive, therefore negating the need to put up with them.

(Besides, if your Service Contract is current, the Tech Support Department are seemingly from another world and are great to deal with!)

ChiknNutz · Mar 12, 2010

No sweat, I find it kinda funny somehow. No ill regard here.

jimmys · Mar 12, 2010

Caveat Emptor - Wasatch Softrip

BTW:

I just posted this thread on www.bigpicture.net

Link:

http://bigpicture.net/forum/general-discussions/caveat-emptor-wasatch-softrip

It will be interesting to view responses for the members there!

CES020 · Mar 12, 2010

For less than $50 worth of their time, they could resolve this issue in minutes, and look like hero's. It would immediately go from a very public negative to a very public positive.

If it were my business and I were reading this, I'd be saying to myself "how can I get this resolved as quickly as possible?", and my personal decision would be to tell someone in tech support to get the file and get it to you, and then I'd draft up a response to this post apologizing for not being more plugged into my customers, and I'd thank you for bringing this poor policy to light so that we can fix it and keep our customers happy, or something along those lines.

It's so easy to fix this and turn it into a positive for them. If they don't, then it'll say a lot about their company to a lot of people.

Caveat Emptor: (Thinking of buy Wasatch Softrip?)

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