Check this out!!

[mike052082]

Used roland sp300v would be the best bet

Thank you. I feel like I should send you some money for answering my question from all the responses I got. I know I am a newb and got a long time to go b4 I get proficient.

 

[houseofgrafix]

Thank you. I feel like I should send you some money for answering my question from all the responses I got. I know I am a newb and got a long time to go b4 I get proficient.

you can send money via paypal at houseofgrafix@gmail.com
ahah jk

Check out ebay for machines. For your case new would be over kill.

But i'm going to say it would be better to outsource in your case.
The time you will save will be worth more then the money in the long run

 

[Just Another Sign Guy]

i love it he's given good advice and then he asks if we will give him advice after he does something the majority of ppl advise him against doing..... unreal

buy a cricut, buy some of fred's clipart, sign up on signs101 and you too can be a pro...

i'm about ready to quote bob burns

 

[slappy]

And we provide for that in the premium sections. If someone wants to start a "printshop" in their backroom... we are NEVER going to stop those people from looking around our forum and frankly, I'm not sure we should. Some of those people learn how to do things the right way and actually succeed in the sign business. Most do not.


Fred and I monitor ALL the new registrations... and you have to indicate your level or involvement with signs... end users and spammers we delete. People who give false information... we delete...

but as much as you may not like another "I can do it cheaper myself even though I have no idea what I'm doing" member... we can try to show them the right way... and then when they don't listen we get to watch them fade back into the woodwork...

Okay, well say Paul the Electrician needs some signs and a logo to get his business noticed. He goes to a local signshop, but they want $300 for the logo and maybe another $600 for the signs and another $200 for some business cards and print. He also is considering shirts and hats.
Well, since the local sign shop want x amount of dollars for signs and the silk screen shop wants x for a few shirts, he looks to the internet for possibly ordering it cheaper.
In the midst of his search, he stumbles across signs101 which comes up in google as "This is a discussion forum for professional signmakers and graphic designers" so he clicks the link.
Now, Paul is pretty smart and since he is just a lurker outside the box, he sees various post threads about shirts, banners, new member welcomes, etc. He lurks for a few weeks and contemplates buying his own equipment.
Then he one day decides to join the board and post that he is looking at a plotter on ebay. Now that he is a member, he has full access to the merchant member directories. What now prevents this guy from getting prices and work done? He now realizes that he can get them at wholesale prices? He has all the members lead to believe that he is going to get into the trade, but in the back of his head, he now knows that he can get stuff 1/2 to 3/4 less then the local sign shop and silk screening place. So he tells his friend Jack the Contractor and Joe the Plumber and Steve the Drywall guy that he can get this stuff. What prevents it?


And I don't mean to be discouraging Mike about your ventures. Your post just reminded me of my customer and I had some thoughts about a few things. Sorry to be a But yes, in all due time you can learn the trade. I did. I started out with no knowledge and it can be done.

 

[Just Another Sign Guy]

the same thing i have been saying for years. if this is to be a for the trade site it needs to be closed to the public.

 

[Bigdawg]

I expect a merchant member that is selling wholesale... to do exactly that - confirm that it's a wholesale customer... I provide my resale certificate for purchases that are wholesale...

We are NOT going to ask for license numbers or the like to join this forum. We screen as they come in... we kick 'em out if they lie about the info they provide... we do not accept a fair number of registrations.

Nothing is going to stop Joe Blow and his plumber buddies from coming to this site. That's why we encourage pricing discussions be in the premium section. But what criteria do you want? A full background check and references? Ain't gonna happen.

So following your theory Steph, I can get wholesale pricing for my plumbing and drywall needs, but that doesn't mean I know what the hell to do with them once I have the materials. Same theory. If it bothers you this much, than all I can say is to not post in those threads that you feel aren't people you want to help. Otherwise this is a place that ALL levels of signmakers can come to. And I don't think Fred is going to change that anytime soon.

 

[Gino]

Mike here…. is no different from anyone else looking to save money in this industry and any other industry.

• How many of the so-called sign shops here that are already members want to put up electric signs that they have no business doing ??
• How many of the so-called sign shops here that are already members don’t know the difference between cast or calendared vinyl ??
• How many of the so-called sign shops here that are already members have no clue as to what some of the basic tools are in this industry ??
• How many of the so-called sign shops here that are already members have absolutely no design skills ??
• How many of the so-called sign shops here that are already members have no clue as to how to run a business ??
• How many of the so-called sign shops here that are already members have no idea of the color wheel, pounce pad or paint uses ??
• How many of the so-called sign shops here that are already members should be serving coffee at Starbucks ??
• How many of the so-called sign shops here that are already members ask unconditional dumb questions ??

This guy came in honestly and said he wanted to cut the middleman out and do his own signs and designs by himself and learn at our expense so he can save money by not making the same mistakes we all made. What’s wrong with him saving money, time and headaches ??

I agree, we all start somewhere, but most of us started by learning in a shop, art school or the School of Hard Knocks. Trying to learn a trade on an internet correspondence course is just stupid. This place is here for all kinds of reasons, and even the owner and top administrator have given you advice on how this place runs and you continue to ignore it.

If you ignore the advice of seasoned professionals…. which some of the answers have been sarcastic, but still helpful….. why should we lift a finger to help you ??

It really doesn’t boil down to you want to open a sign business to get cheaper made graphics or design your own stuff… or you’d be willing to spend the money and take the time to do it correctly. Your stubborn attitude is just like that of the kids today that want everything immediately and have no patience to learn the basic fundamentals of a trade. For me, either stop demanding we work with you and take the information you’ve been given or just wait for someone to tell you the truth.

 

[Fred Weiss]

the same thing i have been saying for years. if this is to be a for the trade site it needs to be closed to the public.

Unfortunately Dan, every member, including you, who chooses not to be a premium subscriber provides continuing affirmation that a paid only site would never work. To provide value to our professional members, we screen registrations. In the case of this OP, he stated in his application that he is, was or wishes to become a professional sign maker. He is now being given enough rope to hang himself.

On the whole, one might ask the harm caused by non-professionals gaining some information here as compared to the good information that is provided to to the professionals that also come here. I personally think the current model, while imperfect, passes the "do more good than harm test" by a landslide. But if you and Steph want to promote a change in the business model, and can convince at least 1,000 members to ante up for a paid membership site, then have at it.

 

[Bigdawg]

Ummmm Gino...

I learned how to make signs from here...

Really...

No apprenticeship...

No art school...

Hard Knock? Maybe...

Just a lil graphic designer with her own shop that got a quote on window signs and decided it would be cheaper to do myself since I was already considering Thermoflex for shirts...

and y'all welcomed me with open arms... it was the kinder, gentler signs 101...

you'd a run me out of town if I joined now.

Thanks for not... see... some of us can learn...

 

[Just Another Sign Guy]

Thanks for not... see... some of us can learn...

yep they learn the basics..how to install cut vinyl lettering to windows, banners and such. then someone comes in and asks them to build, change or repair an electrical sign and they dont have the sense enough to know what they don't know...we see it everyday here.

so yes you can 'teach' yourself somethings and even then there is probably a much better way of doing those things but you have no idea because you 'taught' yourself so again you dont; know what you dont know

 

[Just Another Sign Guy]

Unfortunately Dan, every member, including you, who chooses not to be a premium subscriber provides continuing affirmation that a paid only site would never work. To provide value to our professional members, we screen registrations. In the case of this OP, he stated in his application that he is, was or wishes to become a professional sign maker. He is now being given enough rope to hang himself.

On the whole, one might ask the harm caused by non-professionals gaining some information here as compared to the good information that is provided to to the professionals that also come here. I personally think the current model, while imperfect, passes the "do more good than harm test" by a landslide. But if you and Steph want to promote a change in the business model, and can convince at least 1,000 members to ante up for a paid membership site, then have at it.

i;ve explained many times why i am not and will not be a paying member under the current structure. if i was to build that membership you talk about what would my commision be?

but even then i highly doubt you would ever do it.

 

[Bigdawg]

yep they learn the basics..how to install cut vinyl lettering to windows, banners and such. then someone comes in and asks them to build, change or repair an electrical sign and they dont have the sense enough to know what they don't know...we see it everyday here.

so yes you can 'teach' yourself somethings and even then there is probably a much better way of doing those things but you have no idea because you 'taught' yourself so again you dont; know what you dont know

Ahhhh.. but when I didn't know... or had the slightest doubt... I asked for help from those that did. A good way to learn IMHO.

I didn't do what I can't do... never would build or even quote on an electrical sign at my own shop... ever. Or any structural sign that I was out of my league in... that's when I referred people to someone that KNEW how to do those things.

I'll be the first to admit I'm still learning 4 years later... but to say you only learn from another shop or apprenticeship is BS. It may be an ideal way in some's opinion, but in the reality of life - there's more than one way to learn something.

Did I do some screwed up stuff in the beginning? Probably - but nothing of any matter because I knew what I could do and couldn't.

 

[rambo555]

I think the Mutoh 1204 Valuejet, starter software, and some media is on sale for around 10K today. I have a Mutoh ValueJet and love it.

 

[Gino]

Stacy, I don’t know if you’re being honest with me or my math is way off.

This place started about 6 years ago and you joined about 4 years ago. I was under the impression that you had many years in this business, perhaps not signmaking per say, but had extensive design background, color, layout, typography, and countless other things under your belt and going into the sign industry was almost a natural step for someone with your already obtained background and knowledge. It’s kinda like a flute player taking up the saxophone or clarinet. Something like shooting billiards and then going for 9 ball. It’s a natural next step.

I don’t run anyone in or out if town. I call ‘em as I see ‘em and this character as Fred stated earlier…. is hanging himself everytime he posts.

Everyone can learn, but as Dan said….. one [a smart individual] should know their capabilities and not put the cart in front of the horse and take a long honest look and see if they can indeed press on. This guy has been told by almost every poster that he’s doing it wrong and he still ignores their warnings and then the OP turns this into a slugfest because he’s not getting the support he wants.

By the way…. we’re all learning constantly. Only a fool would say they can do it all and not look back.

 

[Gino]

Pat, if it was hidden from sight.... how would anyone [good or bad] ever find us ??

 

[slappy]

I expect a merchant member that is selling wholesale... to do exactly that - confirm that it's a wholesale customer... I provide my resale certificate for purchases that are wholesale...

From the 5 members i worked with, this has never been requested because i am a member here

We are NOT going to ask for license numbers or the like to join this forum. We screen as they come in... we kick 'em out if they lie about the info they provide... we do not accept a fair number of registrations.

I didn't request that, nor did i suggest it and i didn't realize we had detectives on the board either.

Nothing is going to stop Joe Blow and his plumber buddies from coming to this site.

Cause there is nothing set to prevent them from seeing it. there is no wall on the outside, more like a window.

That's why we encourage pricing discussions be in the premium section.

Encouraged, but not enforced, and it doesn't stop Joe Blow and his plumber buddies from seeing MM's and whatever else is viewable by not being logged in, they are linked in some threads when mentioned

But what criteria do you want? A full background check and references? Ain't gonna happen.

No, just members only viewing the threads would be nice. "This is a discussion forum for professional signmakers and graphic designers" should be enough for someone to register with the site that has interest in making signs or in the trade to want to be able to view threads

So following your theory Steph, I can get wholesale pricing for my plumbing and drywall needs, but that doesn't mean I know what the hell to do with them once I have the materials. Same theory.

What has to be done with a shirt or sign from a MM other then mount it, stick it or wear it and a bit of common sense... not complicated like drywall materials, which by the way i'll be doing next week. I'll let you know how it goes. I bought a book.

If it bothers you this much, than all I can say is to not post in those threads that you feel aren't people you want to help.

It doesn't bother me much, I don't mind helping people and letting them know my thoughts/opinions, but I don't want to give the info to the wrong people.

Otherwise this is a place that ALL levels of signmakers can come to. And I don't think Fred is going to change that anytime soon.

It'd still be the place for ALL levels of signmakers to come to, you'd just have to be logged in to see it.

Just a private forum to which is only available to registered members. There would be a main front page for newcomers/guest mentioning a description of the site and some pop materials on why to register here at signs101 and what it's about. And i'm not talking about a pay site either which i see has been brought up, there is already a pay/private side of signs101

http://drupal.org/node/111576

 

[Fred Weiss]

i;ve explained many times why i am not and will not be a paying member under the current structure. if i was to build that membership you talk about what would my commision be?

The infrastructure is there to create a separate section for members meeting whatever the criteria would be. Or, for that matter, I already own a second license for vBulletin and have lots of room on our leased server. The problem is 1) Very few members step up to the plate with an actual willingness to put in the time to do anything here and 2) I am spread WAY WAY too thin.

As with most enterprises, relationships and compensation are negotiable.

but even then i highly doubt you would ever do it.

Shows to go ya how far out in left field your understanding of me and Signs 101 is.

 

[mike052082]

I would like to thank people for their responses. I really didn't want to be run out of town on this one. Nor am I trying to cut out the middle man. I am just not happy with my local shops that I have used.

I have a problem when I have an idea and the sign guy can't replicate it but I can make it myself and put it on the .pdf format for the sign company.

Some of you just sound like you don't want anyone new to come into the business and maybe b/c new people charge a lot less. I hear that a lot and can totally understand that. Trust me I just want to design something and print it myself right then and there. I want to be educated and am going through that phase.

It seems from the posts that you were born making signs and never had to learn. I didn't want this to get so off topic and really only expected about five responses of "entry level" printers. Just to let the cat out of the bag I actually have already bought the flexiSign software. Trust me I wouldn't have done that if I weren't serious. That was a little chunk of change if you know what I mean. I just now can submit my designs but have to deal with what I would rate sub-par customer service and wait times.

I have read all the responses and take them all in here as well as in the other parts of this forum. Don't assume that I am not taking the advice said here. Although most of it is "You have no idea what you are doing and are crazy for thinking about it". Not really what I was looking for but hey I knew someone would say it, just not gang up on me.

As you look at the Newbie forum, remember, you had to start somewhere yourself.

 

[Bigdawg]

Gino - years of layout, paste-up and graphic design, color correction and photo retouching and absolutely anything that could print - I was the technical go-to girl for. I read postscript like a book... and I did all that before you could do it all in photoshop.

My point was I had NO sign experience other than a few billboards. This sign thing is a whole different world... and I learned what I needed to from here to transition from print to signs.

 

[Fred Weiss]

Just a thought... what if paid subscription was made mandatory, but cost was reduced? And I'm not (by any means) complaining about the cost being too high, because it isn't. The only thing stopping me is that I don't have a credit card or paypal account, but I plan on asking my dad/boss if I can get a subscription and put it on the company card since this site has helped me numerous times.
If the number of people that would now sign up and pay was increased by the lower cost, and the site was now hidden from the public who don't want to sign up, wouldn't this help?
I'm not trying to tell you guys/gals (Fred/Stacy) how to run your site, because you do an amazing job as it is, I just think maybe this would weed out the pizza shops that wanna add a plotter beside their oven.
(not to bash newbies either....but the people that want to buy equipment cuz the real sign shops that know what they're doing "charge too much".... pretty sure everyone gets pissed off by reading that every day)
Just a thought...
Pat

Arranging for payment offline is an available option as is mailing in a check.

One of the main things that makes Signs 101 work is the level of activity here. A paid only business model would result in far fewer members and much less activity. That is the fatal flaw in the paid model. Asking for less in hopes of gaining more revenue is a dangerous roll of the dice. Privacy has been offered for more than two years now and it appears to only be important to less than 3% of our total members and less than 10% of our active members. The number of members who actually take the time to report a bad post such as one that self promotes or has hotlinked images is less than one can count on their fingers and toes. The revenue that comes from Merchant subscriptions and banner advertising, as a percentage of revenue, far exceeds what comes from premium subscriptions.

Pat, if it was hidden from sight.... how would anyone [good or bad] ever find us ??

Referrals and invitations.

Hmm good point.... Well I didn't mean "hidden" from sight necessarily...but prompt visitors to join/register/pay when they stumble across the site?

The bold handwriting on the wall is that a pay only site would not be supported by enough members to be viable.

 

[Fred Weiss]

I would like to thank people for their responses. I really didn't want to be run out of town on this one. Nor am I trying to cut out the middle man. I am just not happy with my local shops that I have used.

I have a problem when I have an idea and the sign guy can't replicate it but I can make it myself and put it on the .pdf format for the sign company.

Some of you just sound like you don't want anyone new to come into the business and maybe b/c new people charge a lot less. I hear that a lot and can totally understand that. Trust me I just want to design something and print it myself right then and there. I want to be educated and am going through that phase.

It seems from the posts that you were born making signs and never had to learn. I didn't want this to get so off topic and really only expected about five responses of "entry level" printers. Just to let the cat out of the bag I actually have already bought the flexiSign software. Trust me I wouldn't have done that if I weren't serious. That was a little chunk of change if you know what I mean. I just now can submit my designs but have to deal with what I would rate sub-par customer service and wait times.

I have read all the responses and take them all in here as well as in the other parts of this forum. Don't assume that I am not taking the advice said here. Although most of it is "You have no idea what you are doing and are crazy for thinking about it". Not really what I was looking for but hey I knew someone would say it, just not gang up on me.

As you look at the Newbie forum, remember, you had to start somewhere yourself.

Good points Mike. We do try to control our demographic and limit it to professional sign makers or those who want to be. Your case is borderline and we're of an open mind.

Some here may feel you are not qualified to be a member, others may differ ... as is reflected in some replies. Different folks have differing opinions.

Returning to the main point, if you are getting poor service from those with whom you have tried to work, then you should continue to look for someone else that can give you what you need. From what I gather, you're an OEM and seeking to decorate your own products. You aren't seeking to be a professional in the business because you aren't seeking to sell signs or graphic products to others. In my sign and graphics business, we would treat you as a wholesale customer. We would work with you on any compatibility issues with the files you design and submit for production. Many members here would have very little problem either unless you are trying to design in applications that are not competent for outsourced production.

But the bottom line is that you have very little justification to acquire in-house production capability and every reason to spend more time looking for an outsource who will meets your needs.

 

[Just Another Sign Guy]

to the OP the more you add the more i shake my head.

from everything you have added you sound like that know it all customer that doesnt know what they dont know and the sign companies you have been working with have been too polite to let you know it.

another 'new' sign shop just posted a question regarding artwork and how to ask for it and it kind of relates because of your unhappiness with the charges you have been faced with. in the 30+yrs i have been in this business do you know how many times i have been provided with client artwork that required literally no repair, correction, etc etc...i truly can not think of one instance...to the point that i simply do not have that conversation with my clients they all pay an artwork charge.

what type of turn around do you expect? and are you willing to pay a premium for getting your project faster than a shops typical turn around time? my guess is NO you are not willing to pay more, so you are subject to the shops turn around time. My turn around time is always 14 business days MINIMUM this allows me to group projects, deal with problems that may arise oh and have a life. if a client needs a project faster and they are willing to pay me a premium for me to rearrange projects and my life then i will do my best to accomodate them. but if you are in a manufacturing scenario (as you are) if yuo can not live with a standard turn around time you have failed to plan on your end...place your order early enough so that you receive your product when you need it. failure to plan on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine.

i swear people outside of this industry think it is like operating a large copier. do me a favor and after you have wasted i mean spent more money come back when you areliterally pulling your hair out (and it will happen). i can't wait "oh guys...please i know i know i should have listened to you but i didnt and now i am screwed..will you please bail me out" and some fool will. when what they should tell you is put your equipment up for sale and politely walk down to your local sign shop with a new found respect for the work they do and write them a check with a big tip. this money you are spending will be a great lesson maybe it will teach you respect for something ppl have put their entire working career into learnign inside and out and that there is a value in that.