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[mike052082]

I have been looking at this forum for about a month now and I see most people here are in the sign business deap with expensive printers. I need some help with this situation.

I am beginning to manufacture amusement games (dunk tanks, ring toss, etc.) for my party rental business and am looking into starting a print shop in my manufacturing building. Nothing big, and really just of for personal use of my games that I plan to take to manufacturing level.

My question is: What is the best value printer for the money? As I have read I believe there are good printers that differ from indoor and outdoor due to the ink they are compatable with. Please educate me on that.

I started this planning to do 3 car wraps of my delivery trucks and figured I could buy a used printer for a little more and have it for my "printshop". What are some good used no longer top of the line printers that I should be able to find on craigslist?

Thanks ahead of time.

 

[FatCat]

:Welcome:

 

[gnatt66]

heya from new hampshire.

 

[Fred Weiss]

Welcome to Signs 101.

There's lots of good information in the Hardware Forums. If you do your own research you won't need to ask such open ended questions. Pretty much any solvent or ecosolvent printer will likely be your appropriate choice.

Have you considered outsourcing your printing instead of gearing up for something that may be more of a distraction than a benefit to you?

 

[Pat Whatley]

Your post would take pages and pages to answer adequately. Your questions are vague, to say the least, and really show a complete lack of effort on your part to find any answers. Using the search function will show you that the "What kind of printer should I buy?" question gets asked almost daily by someone else who's new and doesn't want to invest any time into finding their own answers.

I would really stress staying away from used printing equipment.

First of all there is very little of it out there, trust me, I've looked for over a year for a bargain. What you find is either worn out or has been sitting for so long that everything has essentially dried out and will need replacing....an expense that makes the total purchase about as much as buying new.\

Secondly there's the learning curve. Digital printing is far from a plug-n-play proposition. If you buy used you're going to be without any kind of support. Most new printers come with a decent support package.

You really should look at outsourcing your printing for what you're talking about doing. Most full time sign shops can't justify buying the equipment if they actually do the math....you're going to be hard pressed to justify it as a party store. Don't forget to figure into your price that you're going to need a powerful enough computer to run the printer, you're going to need design software and the ability to use it, and you're going to need a laminator. Those will add another $4000-$8000 to the cost of buying a printer.

 

[Salmoneye]

I am a new owner of a xc-540 and I can tell you that the learning curve is steep. The software alone can cost you more than a professional wrap. Who is going to laminate your prints... Your printer might be one of the most inexpensive propositions. I had a background in printing and graphics from a offset printshop that I owned years ago. I would hate to think how steep this learning curve would be without that experience.

 

[noregrets]

Also, the printers are not maintenance free, and if you are going to be using it/them for little volumes you will definitely not get a return on your investment

 

[mike052082]

Thanks for all the replies. The question is open ended because when I search I see printers that are as expensive as a new car. I figured that I was looking at the wrong stuff and there were some that just weren't that great to you all but would fit my needs.

I do outsource right now, so that has already been investigated. The problem is that I have been through 3 sign companies b/c they take forever to get me what I need and I don't understand their pricing structure b/c I have some big jobs with more colors cost more than a small job on an A frame sign.

I feel sometimes like I have been taken for a drive on this stuff. It is amazing how much sign companies have their pricing structure that are right down the street from each other. Ex. One company quotes 500 dollars and the other 250.

I am really tired of waiting for these companies and I am looking into starting my own small printshop in my shop. It seems from the responses that this will not be possible b/c of the condition that used equipment is in and me being ignorant, there is a great possiblity that I would be waisting my money on something that doesn't work.

Question: Can I get the basic equipment for under $10,000 anywhere? I have been quoted from $18,000-$36,000 from equipment suppliers.

 

[FatCat]

Question: Can I get the basic equipment for under $10,000 anywhere? I have been quoted from $18,000-$36,000 from equipment suppliers.

$10,000? No, not for new equipment.

$18,000-$36,000 is a ballpark figure and realize you will need a printer, a laminator and a cutter along with software and another few grand for materials to start. Of course even this is just guessing. The question is, do you have the knowledge to use this equipment, and/or do you have the time to invest to learn to use it correctly? Ink and material is expensive, and so is trying to learn all this on your own. You'll spend a lot of time throwing stuff away because it wasn't done correctly. PLUS - one of the biggest factors is creating your digital files correctly to begin with. You have to know color theory, understand differences between RGB color space and CMYK. You need to know about resolution and how it affects the outcome of your printed images. You need to know about vector vs. raster file formats and which is used for what purpose...I can go on and on and on....

Just because I have the money and want to build - it doesn't mean it's a good idea for me to go into the excavating business and buy a bulldozer or track-hoe without any knowledge of how to use it, maintain it and doesn't give me the knowledge on do things correctly to industry standards.

Not sure exactly what type of things you're doing, but if a reliable source can't be found locally, there are other options including out of state. If you need stuff turned around quicker than a couple of days you might be SOL.

Personally, I would try to build a good relationship with one of your local vendors and don't focus so much on price. Until you understand differences in materials, methods, etc. it's all moot. Best to focus on their ability to do things correctly and the way you want them done and WHEN you want them done. You will be farther ahead than trying to learn all this yourself. Personally, I would think you need to be spending somewhere around $5,000/mo. CONSISTENTLY before I'd even consider buying my own equipment.

 

[Just Another Sign Guy]

you are ignoring some very important points and focusing on the price of the equipment. yes you can buy a few used printers (just the printer)under 10k, but then you are going to need software, computer (an emachine isnt going to hack it), a laminator, production tables, inventory and with all that you will have no support and no training.

this is not a road that anyone with no experience should walk down unless you are prepared for some long frustrating periods of time...i have seen ppl with no experience go and buy top of the NEW equipment go through their week or two of training and then still spend 3-6 months trying to get to a point that they are proficient.

how many of these 'units' do you anticipate doing a year? if you are going to need a thousand or more prints that are maybe 3' X 4' i MIGHT consider doing it in house ... if you are looking at making a few hundred units a year there is no way to justify the expense of the equipment, let alone the maintenance, operation costs (material, time).

if you are going to be customizing these where you have customer input in the design then you only have additional challenges to contend with (color management)

 

[BobM]

Your best bet would be to contact one of the Merchant Members here on Signs 101 and perhaps outsource the design to one, the printing to another giving you control over the final prints and then do your own installs. You will find it much more cost effective than spending $12,000 to $25,000 only to find out it really does take some talent and there is a large learning curve to do what sign companies do.

 

[Pat Whatley]

Are you planning on opening a shop or just buying equipment for your own use?

 

[Mikeifg]

How about giving the work to a local sign shop just establish a good relationship or hell there are really good merchant members here as stated. It would be alot more cheaper in the long run. Especially since you want to wrap your own stuff, You can't just jump into that there's a huge learning curve. I would stick with what you know so you don't loose money and your 250-500 price quotes I'm guessing the 500.00 company knows what their doing.

 

[slappy]

this is why i believe this forum should be locked down from public view in most sections.

Not to be mean, just using it as an example, but you sound like a customer i had that i gave a quote to and he owns a tattoo shop and came back at me saying he could buy the equipment on ebay and save some money doing it himself and open a print shop inside his business. Then he had the nerve to ask if i could show him what to do after he bought the equipment.

I wished him good luck cause I had to figure out everything on my own and 5 years later, i'm still freaking learning and i'm almost where i want to be, with designing and pricing.

If you think you are going to venture into the sign field, good luck. There's alot more to learn then just figuring out the equipment aspect. Designing yourself some business cards and a logo is the hardest part and if you can accomplish that, post it here to see if you got what it takes. If you can take the criticism, welcome aboard.

 

[Sign Up Graphics]

Sign Up Graphics

Welcome from Skokie, IL

 

[signage]

Steph you should have told him yes you could show him but it would cost him a lot more than the equipment, supplies and software!

 

[mike052082]

I wished him good luck cause I had to figure out everything on my own and 5 years later, i'm still freaking learning and i'm almost where i want to be, with designing and pricing.

From what you said, it is possible to get equipment and learn to use it as well as continue to learn in the process. I know the speil, On another forum that I am on daily we pretty much say the same thing when people want to buy some moonbounces and slides and start a business. It is really just discouraging. I figure yall seen this alot here, which I understand.

Remeber there was a day that you had no idea as well and worked your way into the business. I want to establish my own print shop to make the backgrounds for amusement games, dunk tanks, trackless trains, etc. I can weld, fiberglass, and paint with the best of them. I want to do the sign (or really just stickers, and prints on vinyl).

My real question as above is what do I need to expect to spend for this and that answer I beleive I got. More than what I think I would like to get into right now. But this is something I will do.

I design things and have them printed all the time. I made a safety sign for a moonwalk and went and had it printed. It took me 10 minutes. The guy said he would charge me to redesign it $60 because he knew it took me an hour at least. I was like wow.

I understand that there are tons of things that go along with the printing industry, and I don't and will never know all of them. But I need to start somewhere. My second option was to print my designs and pay to have someone laminate them. But htat was just a thought. I will stay away from this for right now, but only b/c I am not willing to spend all themoney I feel is required. In a year or two once all my designs are full running I will get back into this and invest the $ into my business.

I will need some help and will continue to read everything I can here and get more informed. When I do purchase my equipment whether I just start to piece it together to start the learning curve early I just wonder if I can get some help here?

Thanks for all the responses.

 

[iSign]

Mike, go see one of those sign shops again... have them make your "Going out of Business" signs at the same time as your new "Party Rental" signs & you can get a bulk rate. Then you will be ready for this printshop idea. (Wow... get the Print Shop sign & the other "Going out of Business" signs too... look how much you'll be saving now on bulk discounts!!)

 

[Bigdawg]

this is why i believe this forum should be locked down from public view in most sections.

And we provide for that in the premium sections. If someone wants to start a "printshop" in their backroom... we are NEVER going to stop those people from looking around our forum and frankly, I'm not sure we should. Some of those people learn how to do things the right way and actually succeed in the sign business. Most do not.


Fred and I monitor ALL the new registrations... and you have to indicate your level or involvement with signs... end users and spammers we delete. People who give false information... we delete...

but as much as you may not like another "I can do it cheaper myself even though I have no idea what I'm doing" member... we can try to show them the right way... and then when they don't listen we get to watch them fade back into the woodwork...

 

[mike052082]

but as much as you may not like another "I can do it cheaper myself even though I have no idea what I'm doing" member... we can try to show them the right way... and then when they don't listen we get to watch them fade back into the woodwork...

You know I really don't care to do it cheaper. I want to control all of my designs. I think the design charge is ridiculous for what I am asking to be down and a three week turn around is crazy for me when I am selling custom made games. When I was told that I would be charged $3,000 for my wrap on on of my company vehicles and I could only make one change to the design I was like oh, no. I understand that wraps are expensive and ink is as well but what if I don't like it?

I have contacted one of the outsourcing companies on here about 3 weeks ago and I think that will work out. So that will be my best bet until I am ready to plop down this kind of money.

Mike, go see one of those sign shops again... have them make your "Going out of Business" signs at the same time as your new "Party Rental" signs & you can get a bulk rate. Then you will be ready for this printshop idea. (Wow... get the Print Shop sign & the other "Going out of Business" signs too... look how much you'll be saving now on bulk discounts!!)

Thanks for all the guidance and support.

Trust me my party rental business will not go out of business and amusemnet game manufacturing make enough money to buy all the equipment at $38,000. I just want to be smart so I asked here.

One point though, I thought I knew alot about design on websites and such but I have a greater new appreciation as I go through my graphic designer curriculum in school.

 

[houseofgrafix]

Used roland sp300v would be the best bet