Complaining about attitudes on S101?

[spectrum maine]

On any forum there are people who like to stir up trouble. they were probabably bullied as a kid.

 

[TimToad]

I am a principle on a laser forum and the first rule is 'Be Nice'. You must use your real name and if you aren't nice, you are gone. It is a pleasant part of my day and I look forward to checking it.

I'm on many other forums from one's about my favorite musical groups to sports teams, to politics, art and multiple SIGN related forums and don't see the same people attacking, insulting, condescending to, patronizing, targeting, ETC fellow members and peers.

Those types get weeded out quickly. People don't have the time, patience or inclination to want to invest in what is meant to be collaborative, mutually respectful, enjoyable, informational, camaraderie building forums and have to skim past, police or respond to the flood of negativity and attacks from the handful of cranks with too much free time on their hands.

Some of the names mentioned as having left or not participating here are industry giants and their absence is noticeable.

An important exercise is to learn the difference between "debate" and "argue". It's one thing to disagree or have a difference of opinion, but to learn how to respectfully debate those differences without arguing about them is important.

 

[billsines]

I am a principle on a laser forum and the first rule is 'Be Nice'. You must use your real name and if you aren't nice, you are gone. It is a pleasant part of my day and I look forward to checking it.

I am a member of the Mach3 forum for that CNC controller software and it is absolutely nowhere near what it's like here at times. Not even close.

So as I said before you gotta sort through the trash comments and just deal with the good guys and life is fine.

 

[Gino]

Perhaps, many of you just don't know how to deal with real life and real people.

If I were at a bar, a grocery store or a ball game and the guy next to me was rubbing me the wrong way..... purposely, I'm not gonna tell him I'm Okay with it and go on about whatever it is I'm doing. Nope, I'm gonna let him know, he's annoying me, can he pipe down a little ?? If he continues, I'm gonna try to ignore it, but if it gets real bad, I'll most likely remove myself from the situation. It pays to avoid confrontation, if you assess the situation and your surroundings. Here, on a forum where no one really knows each other..... people tend to say things they wouldn't normally do in person. So, I call 'em out. If they continue, I continue. Kinda simple. If someone is actually trying or foundering, I will be the first to help. Otherwise, the takers, gimme, gimmes, the egotistical look at me's and the other just downright entitled nitwits, just get both barrels. If called out, I will answer, if I'm allowed. I tried to answer someone's questions the other day, but my post was deleted and I was reprimanded. There's nothing new with people not getting along together and when you take a place which is supposed to be about signs and it turns into a second grade learning experience, it gets old real fast, whether your long in the tooth or short in the head. Young, old, seasoned, or novice in the field..... many people are sick and tired of the complaining, the dumb questions and the silly responses some of you serve up as gospel. Those pushing their politics or hidden agendas or whatever are nothing more than the problem, not the ones defending the sign trade or the industry.

The part which makes me laugh the most are all these self-proclaimed mini psychologists all over the place, lately. They've never met you, don't know you, your habits, deviations, your walk, your gestures or anything else. They just make a dumb assessment from a forum. Now, how sick is that ??

 

[WildWestDesigns]

So, I call 'em out. If they continue, I continue. Kinda simple.

You know, the irony here is that some of the people that are complaining are actually doing this very thing. Calling out some of the people on their BS.

Now, they are trying to wrap up their BS in a nice package, but it's still BS filled with double standards. That kind of static detracts from the quality of the site. They subscribe to the "I say what I want because I can and it pleases me", that would be all fine and dandy if it went the other way, but nnnnoooo apparently, it's a big no no if someone else does it. Especially if it's to call them out on something.

Problem is, the site suffers from it. If you are sick and tired of certain posts, just don't answer. If enough people don't answer, I would imagine that the OPs would move on.

They just make a dumb assessment from a forum. Now, how sick is that ??

I think everyone is guilty of that a time or two. How many people have assessed that a poster is just looking for a hand out and wants everything given to them based on a few key words/phrases? Or something along those lines.

We all make assessments based on what information we have at the time. Doesn't matter if it's in person or not. However, over time, some things to start to peek on through.

The one thing that makes me pause, because people don't know who one is on here, it's a total blank slate. That makes me wonder what is going on with how people conduct themselves on here. In a place where they have total freedom, how is this person going to be, is this really how they are or at least what's creeping around in their heads?

 

[Gino]

You know, the irony here is that some of the people that are complaining are actually doing this very thing. Calling out some of the people on their BS.

Now, they are trying to wrap up their BS in a nice package, but it's still BS filled with double standards. That kind of static detracts from the quality of the site. They subscribe to the "I say what I want because I can and it pleases me", that would be all fine and dandy if it went the other way, but nnnnoooo apparently, it's a big no no if someone else does it. Especially if it's to call them out on something.

Problem is, the site suffers from it. If you are sick and tired of certain posts, just don't answer. If enough people don't answer, I would imagine that the OPs would move on.

That's exactly;y what I'm saying. I will throw right back in their face when they confront me with the same logic they are using. Double standards what you call it, but others deem it it sending mixed signals, but on purpose, so they can backpedal, later on.

I think everyone is guilty of that a time or two. How many people have assessed that a poster is just looking for a hand out and wants everything given to them based on a few key words/phrases? Or something along those lines.

We all make assessments based on what information we have at the time. Doesn't matter if it's in person or not. However, over time, some things to start to peek on through.

The one thing that makes me pause, because people don't know who one is on here, it's a total blank slate. That makes me wonder what is going on with how people conduct themselves on here. In a place where they have total freedom, how is this person going to be, is this really how they are or at least what's creeping around in their heads?

That's not quite what I had in mind. Perhaps, I worded it wrong. Not so much making wrong assessments of someone's questions or requests, but someone making up completely assumptions of others based on nothing. Others butting into the conversation to make a mockery of someone other than the OP. They introduce more baggage to the discussion and go from there, inserting things which have nothing to do with any of it. Sure, someone might ask some routine questions and our comebacks will be, do you have ample insurance, do you know what you're doing, or whatever other obvious questions to accompany the initial request, but its to try to understand what the other person is really trying to achieve.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Others butting into the conversation to make a mockery of someone other than the OP.

To me, making a mockery of anyone, OP or not, adds static that doesn't need to be there. Sure, that's the easiest thing to do and may even feel good to do it, but is it really necessary to achieve the goal?

Mocking and correcting are not exactly the same thing. Mocking someone adds static and to me, if one doesn't have the ability to correct without mocking, something isn't quite right.

 

[Bigdawg]

Well... I learned how to make signs from this forum. Many years ago when the place was helpful and not condescending and downright rude to the new people. Loved this place so much I spent more time than I probably should have on here both posting and admining because Fred made sure it was a good place to be. Miss those days a lot.
I rarely even bother to log in anymore when I do visit the site. The content has gone downhill and helpfulness? Not usually. Although Tiki is and forever will be the font king. That is one area that is very helpful. But any attempts to actually try to learn things here are stopped in their tracks with the attitudes about sharing what you know. And I think that's part of the problem. I'm not sure why some people are even here any more, since they seem to dislike at least half of the people who post.
The days of doing an unpaid or cheap apprenticeship are long gone. New sign people are going to learn the new way - on a forum such as this or YouTube or something similar. Those that really want to learn - will. But there will always be crap sign-makers, just like there's crappy people in every profession. For example, our local sign painter has been around for years - his work looks terrible and always has. But he does the jobs cheap so he keeps getting work. How is that any different than someone doing cheap, ugly decals with their cutter? It's not. And I think we do a disservice to the sign community when we treat those entering the profession as an idiot who we can't teach anything to instead of people that we could elevate instead.
I agree that the overall attitude here has changed substantially over the last few years. Unfortunately, I don't believe it's for the better.

 

[BALLPARK]

There is no reason to be a **** to anyone asking a question about this industry. If you feel it's not worthy of your time, then don't comment. If you feel you need to put them down in a way that reflects a harsh or aggressive stance towards the post, then step away.

When I started I did not know anything about this industry. I know have a vault of knowledge that I'm more than willing to even share with the competitors in my area. I just don't get why some feel as if they should attack the poster's request.

Yes, this site has gone down hill in terms of the sharing of knowledge in a professional manner. No secret that some here look for the opportunity to spit their venom. I'm an open book and love to help others that share a passion for this industry. Today or tomorrow someone will start in this industry... That same person could be the one that changes the landscape of this industry in the future. Even if they only become some local sign shop that sells decals to a few clients... Who cares? Just help them or don't help them... But don't be a ****. You would be surprised what can happen when you help others achieve things.

 

[Category5]

I've spent a lot of time on all sorts of different forums, including time as an admin on a couple of automotive forums. I've used this one as an information reference for a long time before officially joining recently. To be quite honest, the BS level here isn't really that bad. There are a few in every crowd, but there are other forums where the behavior here pales in comparison. Search around any machinist's forum out there and take a look at the horrible treatment of others there. Those forums are dominated by a handful of crusty old professionals who will immediately crucify anyone asking a question of any real substance, and dare you ask a question if you aren't using the preferred brand of overpriced equipment. The powers that be on those forums view everyone as a threat to their livelihood and treat any knowledge as a protected trade secret. I can only pray I never reach a point in my life where I'm as irritable and jaded with my chosen profession as to be a complete jerk to those who have less experience than me.

 

[rydods]

The way I look at it is, for every Jerk/"tell it like it is" person there are at least a handful of other people who are willing to help out or point you in the right direction.

I started out working for a sign company and learned from someone who had been in this industry as a sign painter for 40+ years. I learned more from asking questions on this site and making mistakes and correcting them. I've asked more than my fair share of "dumb" questions. It's up to me to learn from my mistakes and I don't think there are dumb questions, just people hoping to avoid making mistakes and if asking dumb questions helps us to create better installers, workers, designers, and so on, ask away.

This topic always comes up in some form or another. It's like politics. We all have our own opinions and personalities and our minds are not likely to change on how we feel. Weed through the snide remarks and eventually you'll find a helpful one.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

I've spent a lot of time on all sorts of different forums, including time as an admin on a couple of automotive forums. I've used this one as an information reference for a long time before officially joining recently. To be quite honest, the BS level here isn't really that bad. There are a few in every crowd, but there are other forums where the behavior here pales in comparison. Search around any machinist's forum out there and take a look at the horrible treatment of others there. Those forums are dominated by a handful of crusty old professionals who will immediately crucify anyone asking a question of any real substance, and dare you ask a question if you aren't using the preferred brand of overpriced equipment. The powers that be on those forums view everyone as a threat to their livelihood and treat any knowledge as a protected trade secret. I can only pray I never reach a point in my life where I'm as irritable and jaded with my chosen profession as to be a complete jerk to those who have less experience than me.

Exactly, this place is pretty normal.. Some folks just blow this place way out of proportion.

Some members here need to put each other on ignore... I have one person on ignore and it's a very helpful feature.

 

[equippaint]

If all of this was such a big issue then why is it that every time when a post with a bunch of bickering or a post about bickering is started, its pages long? Then a bunch of users come out of the wood work to participate in some way or another yet still stay silent in other threads when people ask for help. Gino hit the nail on the head with people talking out of both sides of their mouth.

 

[TimToad]

If all of this was such a big issue then why is it that every time when a post with a bunch of bickering or a post about bickering is started, its pages long? Then a bunch of users come out of the wood work to participate in some way or another yet still stay silent in other threads when people ask for help. Gino hit the nail on the head with people talking out of both sides of their mouth.

Maybe those folks lurking in the woodwork feel intimidated to come out and offer anything out of fear of being judged, personally attacked, condescended to, disrespected, etc.?

 

[Gino]

Or maybe they're afraid you'll just rush in and try to outdo them with one of your sign picture shows........... or someone slop food down their trousers.... and then contemplate eating it or not. That's the person I wanna follow suit on..... It's one thing for people to fight their own battles, but when this place has you and the derby calling 911 all the time, who needs hall monitors anymore ??

Gosh, can't you guys just listen to yourselves once in a while ??

 

[Baz]

You are all just a bunch of old farts!

 

[jman]

I respect all you guys, I really do.

I just wanna learn man. Plain and simple.

 

[GAC05]

 

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

Or maybe they're afraid you'll just rush in and try to outdo them with one of your sign picture shows........... or someone slop food down their trousers.... and then contemplate eating it or not. That's the person I wanna follow suit on..... It's one thing for people to fight their own battles, but when this place has you and the derby calling 911 all the time, who needs hall monitors anymore ??

Gosh, can't you guys just listen to yourselves once in a while ??

You're projecting. Any time you're not the center of attention, you get bent out of shape. You make a post about something funny that happened (which you do ALL THE TIME, because as far as I can tell, you don't actually do any work and just post 1,000 times more than anyone else), it's a great time. Anybody else makes a post about something amusing? They're dumb, their ideas are dumb, they're inept. You're a hypocrite, Gino. You just don't realize it.

You instantly resort to pointing fingers, calling names, because YOU are the problem and you do exactly what you accuse everybody else of doing all the time. YOU, Gino, are the main problem with these forums. The admins don't see it, but I do. Plenty of other people do. You're toxic, you make this place a miserable environment for new people, you make this place miserable for a lot of the people who sincerely want to help.

The reason I call you out all the time is because you're an abusive bully. I know how to deal with people in real life, and I 100% guarantee you wouldn't ever imagine saying 5% of what you say on these forums to me in person, because you have anonymity here. It's consequence free, and bullies are afraid of consequences.

 

[Gino]

derby, I think you generalize too much. Now, I don't have the credentials you have to make these accusations like you, but it's rather evident. You don't have much to say when you say things, but you have a high ol' time going after me. I don't mind. In fact, you're actually making it your goal. I would invite you to listen to yourself and pay special attention to the parts where you think you know everything. For the most part, you are describing yourself pretty much right down to the bone. Are you sure, you don't have a big ol' mirror all around you. You remind me of the type.

In the sentences below, look at how many times you call me names, make fun of me and tell me exactly what's wrong with me. It's astounding and you do this day in and day out and you're still just working at some shop for someone. Do they know how much time you waste arguing ??

As for the admins and whatnot..... they see exactly what's going on..... and not just with me. How would you think with your emotional outbursts towards me they couldn't see it ?? I would venture to say, you're in their scopes, too...... along with others.

As to how I would talk to you or what..... sounds like you're getting a little hostile. Is that a threat, derby ?? Your biggest ordeal is how to eat a burrito without dumping it on your trouser and the floor. Guess that's why they don't allow you around tools in that shop where you work.

You're projecting. Any time you're not the center of attention, you get bent out of shape. You make a post about something funny that happened (which you do ALL THE TIME, because as far as I can tell, you don't actually do any work and just post 1,000 times more than anyone else), it's a great time. Anybody else makes a post about something amusing? They're dumb, their ideas are dumb, they're inept. You're a hypocrite, Gino. You just don't realize it.

You instantly resort to pointing fingers, calling names, because YOU are the problem and you do exactly what you accuse everybody else of doing all the time. YOU, Gino, are the main problem with these forums. The admins don't see it, but I do. Plenty of other people do. You're toxic, you make this place a miserable environment for new people, you make this place miserable for a lot of the people who sincerely want to help.

The reason I call you out all the time is because you're an abusive bully. I know how to deal with people in real life, and I 100% guarantee you wouldn't ever imagine saying 5% of what you say on these forums to me in person, because you have anonymity here. It's consequence free, and bullies are afraid of consequences.