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Copy right or trademark logos illegal

Bobby H

Arial Sucks.
Some of it depends on how big a target you are for legal action.

A fly by night gypsy vinyl cutter/printer dude at a flea market isn't much of a target at all unless the victimized companies have a reliable way of tracking down and dealing with the dude.

Our company is pretty big, has been around for decades and is stuck in one place. Big, easy target for lawyers. Naturally, we flatly refuse to sell trademarked graphics and logos to casual walk-in customers looking to spruce up a personal vehicle or something.

Just the other day a fellow came in asking about having Dallas Cowboy graphics put on his back window. Couldn't do it. I told him it was a risk for us to do such work, but he might try a couple other places in town to see if they would oblige.

Even with legally reproducing trademarked logos, graphics, etc. we strive to work with the company who owns those marks to make sure they are properly reproduced. We get the legit, current computer art files, color & material specifications as well as the usage guidelines (like minimal white space specs, ratio to other elements, etc.). We DO NOT use the stuff found at Brands of the World, which is often re-created, phony garbage.

Sometimes legit customers want to alter trademarks (adding stuff to a logo, resizing, changing colors, etc.). We warn them if we make the sign with such alterations the parent company may force them to remove the sign, not pay any co-op money for the signs, etc. Gotta play by the rules.
 

visual800

Active Member
Please keep jeopardizing your entire business for dumb crap like this and your tax avoidance posts, it will make for great reading later as a case study in what not to do.

I'm a pain in the *** about copyright. If the customer doesn't have legit reproduction clearance (or remix clearance if we're designing with/around it) than we won't touch it. The people who want to violate copyright tend to be small profit anyway and it's yet another useful velvet rope, one that has the side effect of protecting your business from going down in flames.


okeedokee, but how do you know Im not lying just to stir the flames?
 

Justin

New Member
Why would you lie? Bored? Nothing to Do? Getting a kick out of it? Go talk on the cb.. :p

Anyway, I havent reproduced copyrights, or trademarks, but dang it would be a lot better if these companies were easier to get along with, or use their marks.
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Easier to work with ??
  • How much easier can it get then to call and ask for permission ??

You guys live for today and have no idea of why this problem exists, do you.



Years ago, everything was produced by hand, whether it be screen printed positives, hand painted or blown neon. Talent is what gave the sign industry its market. Your hands could produce what your eyes saw. So, only a real sign shop could do it and you had a girl or guy up front... call the necessary company to make sure this or that customer was indeed permitted to use their logo or reputation. It was then reproduced by talented people according to the specs provided. There was literally none of this crap, until recently. In fact, until the internet [thank Al Gore], it still wasn't too common of a problem.

Today, every d!ickwad with a computer can download black market and illegal files and reproduce this stuff at will with NO consideration for other people's rights or property. So, goof around all you want..... ya wanna be or do it illegally..... NOW you know the frickin' law, so you can't hide behind your stoopid ignorance any longer.

Everyone today wants to be a know-it-all and tell us why they can break the law, but you can't. Dumb stoopid kids.... they got it all under control.
 

slipperyfrog

New Member
Justin - If you want to sell really cool cartoon characters then you should learn to draw some of your own. Design a whole series of 'em and give 'em cool names. Like Quacky Duck and Bigbutt Bear. Sell the heck out of them. Print them, advertise them, sell them at flea markets or on the web. Then when you see somebody else selling copies of your stuff on ebay you might understand. Or not....

This sums it up in a nice real world example for those that don't want to read the fine print.
 

WCSign

New Member
someone please show me a website or retailer that has license rights to sell vinyl cut images of mickey mouse, or that calvin and hobbs pissing on whatever other logo they have the rights to produce

fashion companies are very active because bootlegs are directly hurting business, since they are direct replicas of products

I know someone who got shut down on ebay for selling honda stickers

but unless you are making millions off of a sticker that has calvin pissing on a chevy logo, then chances are that you are never going to be bothered.

Harley davidson is very proactive about their logo/colors and its likeness, hell they even sued yamaha for the exhaust sound on its Vmax.

but you can go to any bike rally anywhere and see hundred of vendors with bootleg harley styled shirts that say "so and so bike rally 2012" and nobody is ******* with them.

its almost like harley sees it and turns a blind eye because the people selling shirts are actually travelling to rallies etc, but if they were just selling on ebay from home, harley would complain.


I have an open use policy for one of my business logos that states it can be used for anything you like, but you cannot alter anything except the colors. Specifically no skewing and stretching. some kids have plotters themselves, make em and even sell to forum members. Some take the artwork to sign shops and get stickers made up, hell Ive seen the logo on cars locally and I know 100% they didnt get the sticker from me. I make the .ai files available for easy DL on sites

Ive seen my logo on bootleg shirt websites for sale, etc. etc.

My girlfriend had a cake made for me in the shape and with the business logo, they didnt ask any questions. She goes to walgreens to get some pics printed for a collage and wants to put logo on it and the guy is like hell no! Even after she shows him the free use stuff on my website.

basically the moral of that story is, some people care, some people dont, you can ask for permission that people honestly dont have time to give or you can just do it.

and if you have to email bridgestone to use their logo for a local tire store, then why the hell do they allow people to sell the corporate logo license CD's. http://www.logoclipart.com/

I made a banner for a local girl scout troop in exchange for some samoas (great deal!) and the girl scouts have their logos and even cookie images all on the web for DL. with requirements to not change colors and only display on a solid white BG


I dunno, bootleg stickers aint my thing, but if some good ol boy wanted 2 chevy logos in digital camoflage a certain size for each side of his truck, id make em.. call it what you want, but there is far less things to worry about than some local sign company serving an UNSERVED market and supplying a brands fan with the tools to represent his favorite brand.

On the collegiate stuff note.. yeah NCAA is all a crock of money making feces anyways. they make millions off of these kids who cant even use their own likeness to make a dime or even trade a pair of signed game shoes for a ******* tattoo
 

Tigertron

New Member
Whois says www.signsorcerer.com is hosted in Germany. And it's been up since 2009. Lots of hoops to jump through if you want to sell like that.

But just like that logo vector pack I put the burden of responsibility on the customer. I cut it but it's up to them to make sure they are allowed to use it before they do. But they give me the art work. I don't create it for them.

It's rare and mostly stuff for race bikes and atvs.
 

Joe Diaz

New Member
Justin - If you want to sell really cool cartoon characters then you should learn to draw some of your own. Design a whole series of 'em and give 'em cool names. Like Quacky Duck and Bigbutt Bear. Sell the heck out of them. Print them, advertise them, sell them at flea markets or on the web. Then when you see somebody else selling copies of your stuff on ebay you might understand. Or not....

Nahhhh. That would be too much work. Why actually spend time creating something original and being creative when you can just profit from someone else's hard work and not even show them the slightest bit of courtesy by at the very least asking if it's okay if you make money off of their hard work too?

I say if you can sleep at night go for it. Who cares right? Why should we care? It's not like the majority of people outside this industry respect creative professionals anyway. Why should people IN the industry respect creativity? Anyone can design a logo, especially the one's that large corporations use. So what's the big deal?

We might as well just help perpetuate the idea that intellectual property like this has absolutely no value, by showing our customers that it's totally cool to just copy someone else's work without permission.

I mean why should we waste our time being creative at all, when a know it all client can walk in the door and tell us how to do our job, and the guy down the street is just going to steal your ideas anyway? It's all about making money right? Nothing else matters anymore, so why even ask if it's okay to use copyrighted content without permission? Just do whatever you feel like doing. Everyone else seems to think that's the way it's done. :banghead::banghead:

(sorry I'm having a bad day can't you tell?)
 

Justin

New Member
Whois says www.signsorcerer.com is hosted in Germany. And it's been up since 2009. Lots of hoops to jump through if you want to sell like that.

But just like that logo vector pack I put the burden of responsibility on the customer. I cut it but it's up to them to make sure they are allowed to use it before they do. But they give me the art work. I don't create it for them.

It's rare and mostly stuff for race bikes and atvs.

The domain is owned by someone in America, and if not then they could get the domain revoked for providing false information to their registrar. They also can seize .com domains whether your in China, or Canada as .com is regulated by Verisign, and they are an American company.

Also, if they can go after some kid having Links NOT SELLING to where you can download, or watch tv shows, and they transport him from the UK to America to try him then they can go after this person for actually SELLING trademarked stuff, and if they choose not to do it.. I know they don't give a crap, but I will think even less of this freaking government because if they can go after that kid for the RIAA, and MPAA then they can go after this person too.

Source of kid being extradited to US to face charges for his site - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...-faces-extradition-to-US-over-TV-website.html
latest update: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-17851702

Now.. I'm not one to advocate the government going after people, or getting involved in our lifes. However, if they let that person sell that crap on their site, and then I setup a site and sell the damn **** it wouldn't be right for them to come after me, but not them. I just want equal freaking rights. Let me sell, let them sell, let whoever sell, and were good, but don't go restricting me, and not them too.
 

Mike F

New Member
LOL! I'm surprised that site is still up.. They essentially took all the logos from brandsoftheworld, and put them on a cd.. :p

I like the little "Offer ends ...." flash clip that automatically sets the end date to the current date on your computer. Go ahead, try it. Go there, check the date the offer ends, then change the date on your computer and reload the site. Sneaky sneaky.... :banghead:
 

WCSign

New Member
Some of it depends on how big a target you are for legal action.

A fly by night gypsy vinyl cutter/printer dude at a flea market isn't much of a target at all unless the victimized companies have a reliable way of tracking down and dealing with the dude.

Our company is pretty big, has been around for decades and is stuck in one place. Big, easy target for lawyers. Naturally, we flatly refuse to sell trademarked graphics and logos to casual walk-in customers looking to spruce up a personal vehicle or something.

Just the other day a fellow came in asking about having Dallas Cowboy graphics put on his back window. Couldn't do it. I told him it was a risk for us to do such work, but he might try a couple other places in town to see if they would oblige.

Even with legally reproducing trademarked logos, graphics, etc. we strive to work with the company who owns those marks to make sure they are properly reproduced. We get the legit, current computer art files, color & material specifications as well as the usage guidelines (like minimal white space specs, ratio to other elements, etc.). We DO NOT use the stuff found at Brands of the World, which is often re-created, phony garbage.

Sometimes legit customers want to alter trademarks (adding stuff to a logo, resizing, changing colors, etc.). We warn them if we make the sign with such alterations the parent company may force them to remove the sign, not pay any co-op money for the signs, etc. Gotta play by the rules.


just saw this post.. :goodpost:
 

Pat Whatley

New Member
Just remember that 99% of these people telling you how pure they are and that they never use anything they aren't supposed to have hundreds of fonts they downloaded from dafont.com (or any other free site) they never paid the commercial licensing fee for.
 

TyrantDesigner

Art! Hot and fresh.
Nahhhh. That would be too much work. Why actually spend time creating something original and being creative when you can just profit from someone else's hard work and not even show them the slightest bit of courtesy by at the very least asking if it's okay if you make money off of their hard work too?

I say if you can sleep at night go for it. Who cares right? Why should we care? It's not like the majority of people outside this industry respect creative professionals anyway. Why should people IN the industry respect creativity? Anyone can design a logo, especially the one's that large corporations use. So what's the big deal?

We might as well just help perpetuate the idea that intellectual property like this has absolutely no value, by showing our customers that it's totally cool to just copy someone else's work without permission.

I mean why should we waste our time being creative at all, when a know it all client can walk in the door and tell us how to do our job, and the guy down the street is just going to steal your ideas anyway? It's all about making money right? Nothing else matters anymore, so why even ask if it's okay to use copyrighted content without permission? Just do whatever you feel like doing. Everyone else seems to think that's the way it's done. :banghead::banghead:

(sorry I'm having a bad day can't you tell?)

Ouch, one of THOSE days huh? ... I had that sort of day Monday when I saw a logo I proofed out pulling into the supermarket right across from me on my customers vehicle. Asked him when would be a good time to send over my invoice on the final logo design since that is what he wanted ... he didn't understand that the logo contract he signed stated that was my logo until fully paid for ... he ripped it off right then and there after calling me a choice few words.

eff em.

I never like having the conversation of 'I can't reproduce that because it's copyrighted" they never understand. I will however entertain a customers kid and draw them their favorite character with a quick sharpy sketch... I then hand them a box of crayons I use for rubbings and they go to town. it's more entertainment than anything else.
 

Tigertron

New Member
The domain is owned by someone in America, and if not then they could get the domain revoked for providing false information to their registrar. They also can seize .com domains whether your in China, or Canada as .com is regulated by Verisign, and they are an American company.

Also, if they can go after some kid having Links NOT SELLING to where you can download, or watch tv shows, and they transport him from the UK to America to try him then they can go after this person for actually SELLING trademarked stuff, and if they choose not to do it.. I know they don't give a crap, but I will think even less of this freaking government because if they can go after that kid for the RIAA, and MPAA then they can go after this person too.

Source of kid being extradited to US to face charges for his site - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/8579936/Student-faces-extradition-to-US-TV-website.html
latest update: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-17851702

Now.. I'm not one to advocate the government going after people, or getting involved in our lifes. However, if they let that person sell that crap on their site, and then I setup a site and sell the damn **** it wouldn't be right for them to come after me, but not them. I just want equal freaking rights. Let me sell, let them sell, let whoever sell, and were good, but don't go restricting me, and not them too.

I'm 100% with you. If that owner is not licensed to sell Disney he should be shut down. We need to have some protection on the books and that site looks like stealing then giving the finger.

It's like speeding. Everyone does it even though it's against the law but that doesn't mean you can just say aw f' it go as fast as you want.
 
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