Copyright Violation Question

[Locals Find!]

Again, is your version of the story documented, signed and dated by both parties ??

No matter what was said or discussed with or without you.... you must have a complete paper trail from start to finish if you think you'll get anywhere in a court of law.

Let's go a step further..... if your agreement was indeed how you described it as you don't have money for designing, layout or anything else and only get paid for signs or actual work produced..... why would you give the artwork to someone else ?? You basically violated your own agreement with the real estate company and if you can violate your agreement, why can't they ?? I know, two wrongs don't make a right, but you made both wrongs. Copyright infringement is pretty serious, but only when both sides know the rules... and to be perfectly frank, you're still only learning and don't have an overall grasp on it. Sounds like you're trying to get back at someone. Free enterprise is one thing, but you're sounding a little deceitful. They told you totally outright they were going elsewhere and you put something in writing that seems a little after the fact.

If I might ask, what did you receive for giving this other sign shop a one-time use ??

Again, how old is this contract that you have signed and dated with the real estate company and did they in fact sign and date it ?? While we're at it..... do they have a signed and dated copy with your signature on it ??

I did it one time to help the one agent out as I have known him for a while and understood his relationship with the other shop. I made the exception for him based on our working relationship. He orders other products from me. If it had just been this one agent I would have been fine. When they came trying to steal away other agents with lowball prices is when I became upset.

I don't mind market competition. I can compete fairly with other shops in town. This shop plays dirty pool. When your giving away 18x24 .040 double sided aluminum signs with my artwork for $12 each to steal my customers. Your right I get upset. I can't compete with that and make my overhead and most shops other than MOSH probably can't either.

 

[HulkSmash]

Just curious. Can we see the logo you designed for them? I think it'll help

 

[Gino]

If you don't answer a direct question this time, I, and the others will know, you are full of bullchit.

You do understand that... he said, she said, they said, don't make it anywhere... especially in a court of law. Are you purposely playing a silly game and wasting peoples' time ??

Do you have any signed quotes, invoices, documents of the original deal with the real estate company ?? AND do they have the same paperwork signed and dated by you for their own files ??

You're starting to look more and more like a cheat and spoiled little brat than anything else.

Is this particular order for developing his artwork signed and dated by all parties involved...... including you ??

 

[John Butto]

Telling us lowball prices on signs and using Mosh's name is an infringement on my intelligence and it sounds that you are bored and need to keep this thread going. So I am telling you this and if I see it again I will get my lawyer to contact you. There it is in writing.

 

[HulkSmash]

Again, i think if we see the logo it would help

 

[Mosh]

Telling us lowball prices on signs and using Mosh's name

That is "gimmik" infringement!!!!

 

[Locals Find!]

If you don't answer a direct question this time, I, and the others will know, you are full of bullchit.

You do understand that... he said, she said, they said, don't make it anywhere... especially in a court of law. Are you purposely playing a silly game and wasting peoples' time ??

Do you have any signed quotes, invoices, documents of the original deal with the real estate company ?? AND do they have the same paperwork signed and dated by you for their own files ??

You're starting to look more and more like a cheat and spoiled little brat than anything else.

Is this particular order for developing his artwork signed and dated by all parties involved...... including you ??

No, we have a verbal agreement. Which has worked fine as my office is in their office.

 

[HulkSmash]

No, we have a verbal agreement. Which has worked fine as my office is in their office.

annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd there goes your case.

can we see the logo now?

 

[WildWestDesigns]

No, we have a verbal agreement. Which has worked fine as my office is in their office.

Not good, unless you had tape recorded that conversation and they were aware that you were doing so. Always do contracts. I come from another industry that was very much a "gentleman's agreement" industry and they are slowly coming around that you need contracts on paper with signatures now.

Even an email, it would be better to have that then nothing at all. You are going to be hard pressed to get anywhere with this one. If it was me, I would let it go this time and make sure I had contracts ready for the next go around.

 

[Baz]

I think you should chalk it up as a learning experience at the school of hard knocks. Never do a logo for free. Always assume the client will send it to someone else.

I learn't the same lesson at the same school a few years back.

 

[threeputt]

I designed the logo for the Real Estate company without getting paid per our agreement that I do all the signs & printing exclusively for all agents & the office in return.

Something doesn't sound right here. Forgive me, but who'd make such an agreement. ie: They get the logo for "free" but you're the only shop permitted to produce their signs?

So what's to prevent you from increasing the prices on the signs whenever you want and they're stuck with buying the signs exclusively from you? (per the agreement)

Doesn't make sense to me. I know I'd never agree to that sort of open-ended stuff.

Something just doesn't sound right in this scenario.

 

[Locals Find!]

Well, thanks for all the advice. I am going to try the certified letter if that doesn't get me anywhere. Well, I will just chalk it up to experience.

 

[wildside]

I don't mind market competition. I can compete fairly with other shops in town. This shop plays dirty pool. When your giving away 18x24 .040 double sided aluminum signs with my artwork for $12 each to steal my customers. Your right I get upset. I can't compete with that and make my overhead and most shops other than MOSH probably can't either.

if they are really doing stuff at those prices, just sit back and relax, within a year your "competition" is no longer there

and a verbal agreement is about as good as a a turd floatin in the crapper, flush it and use some toilet paper next time.........

 

[Locals Find!]

Something doesn't sound right here. Forgive me, but who'd make such an agreement. ie: They get the logo for "free" but you're the only shop permitted to produce their signs?

So what's to prevent you from increasing the prices on the signs whenever you want and they're stuck with buying the signs exclusively from you? (per the agreement)

Doesn't make sense to me. I know I'd never agree to that sort of open-ended stuff.

Something just doesn't sound right in this scenario.

I grew up with the people who own this particular company. I do raise prices as the market demands but, I don't get greedy. We have mutual respect for each other.

Its a dying way of doing business apparently. The good old days of a handshake and mutual respect are slowly being eased out.

 

[threeputt]

Okay, if it works for you.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

I grew up with the people who own this particular company. I do raise prices as the market demands but, I don't get greedy. We have mutual respect for each other.

Its a dying way of doing business apparently. The good old days of a handshake and mutual respect are slowly being eased out.

If that was the case then this would have been a moot issue.

Yes it is a changing business. I don't necessarily see mutual respect losing way. You can still have contracts and have mutual respect, however, the idea of a handshake only is going by the way side that's for sure.

 

[NEGD]

Again, i think if we see the logo it would help

ditto

 

[Gino]

It's not a dying way of doing business, it's a foolish way of thinking. Even at McDonald's you receive and pay for the little receipt [also known as a contract/invoice] before you get the goods. However you want to use that food afterward is up to you... the buyer. Just don't throw it on the building and make a mess.

I believe you had a another worm come in and steal your artwork and there's nothing you can do about it.

Why is it, that when all the smoke and dust settles, it's always the same guys who are trying to pull a fast one defending something they did that is totally stupid and they want us to think they have some unique problem. It's always user error.



Don't wast your time on a certified letter. Call them, set up an appointment and explain your dilemma in person.... especially if they are life-long friends. If they don't laugh in your face, just tell them what you want and see if they pay you.

This is the real estate company, not the lowball sign shop. They did nothing wrong, as of yet. Your gripe is with the real estate guys for continuing to use your competition. If the other sign shop is so bad, why haven't your life-long friends come back ?? ​

 

[Locals Find!]

It's not a dying way of doing business, it's a foolish way of thinking. Even at McDonald's you receive and pay for the little receipt [also known as a contract/invoice] before you get the goods. However you want to use that food afterward is up to you... the buyer. Just don't throw it on the building and make a mess.

I believe you had a another worm come in and steal your artwork and there's nothing you can do about it.

Why is it, that when all the smoke and dust settles, it's always the same guys who are trying to pull a fast one defending something they did that is totally stupid and they want us to think they have some unique problem. It's always user error.



Don't wast your time on a certified letter. Call them, set up an appointment and explain your dilemma in person.... especially if they are life-long friends. If they don't laugh in your face, just tell them what you want and see if they pay you.

This is the real estate company, not the lowball sign shop. They did nothing wrong, as of yet. Your gripe is with the real estate guys for continuing to use your competition. If the other sign shop is so bad, why haven't your life-long friends come back ?? ​

Gino, Its not the owners of the office. The office itself gets their signs from me. The agents are independent contractors. Who are supposed to use me for their signs & printing.

The office can't enforce that though, because that would change the relationship of the independent contractor status as I understand it. Something about the law governing their Realtor status, that part is over my head and not really my concern.

This is why I control the logo. My issue isn't with the office or even the agent themselves. I can't say boo to the agents without alienating them and being told to screw off and them just not ordering signs. Which they aren't legally required to use anyway on property its just a traditional practice.

I am not trying to defend myself I was trying to be clear about the circumstances that led up to this. So, I could get pertinent advice.

 

[HulkSmash]

So when can we see the logo?