CS6 and the Cloud

[Kevin-shopVOX]

Personally I like this model, and a lot of this has to do with the way my mind works. I look at value as the only thing that matters. Is the money I'm spending within my business making my business more efficient, valid & profitable. Those really are the only things that matter when you invest in your business, whether it be software, hardware or personnel.

The creative cloud by Adobe has a lot to offer. Sure it is different than the way you are used to doing things, but that certainly doesn't make it a rip off because you fail to see value in it. They are not taking advantage of their customers, they are actually making it more affordable and offering more at that. You essentially will get every application they have. On top of that you will always be up to date. No need to worry about upgrades. Online storage for your files and easy syncing between where you access them and any device you want. They are making it easier to do business where ever you are and with whatever device you have with you. In my opinion that is invaluable. Collaboration on designs between you, your peers/coworkers and the client looks like it has never been easier and more efficient. Training files and other collateral in this arena are also included with the price. $49.99/mo is a bargain when you think about the possibilities.

 

[Bobby H]

When the cumulative cost of that monthly fee is added up over a 12, 18 or 24 month time span it actually costs more than a perpetual license upgrade -particularly upgrades of suites that don't include every app in the Master Collection.

Essentially Adobe is forcing existing customers to buy every upgrade regardless of whether the upgrade is worth it or not. It doesn't matter if they're signed up for the cloud or buying the boxed software. Adobe is playing hardball with customers in order to improve cash flow and make stock share holders happier. This is the crux of my complaint. Not every upgrade is worth buying. Now customers aren't going to have the choice -unless they don't mind losing their upgrade eligibility and having to pay full price for an upgrade that is worth buying.

Adobe's applications are indeed made for professional users. With that being said, not nearly every graphic designer uses all the bells and whistles of Photoshop, Illustrator, etc. More than a few could get by just fine using a version 2, 3 or more generations old.

I upgraded to CS5.5 because I had no choice. The CS3 suite I had wouldn't run on the computer I bought to replace one that died. If Adobe had adopted its new licensing policy back then I would have had to pay full price for the CS5.5 suite.

Regarding sharing art files with customers or other designers, etc. PDF already solves much of that.

 

[qmr55]

I'm still sore they purposely bought Freehand only to kill it. I'm having a very tough time learning Illy, and I can't upgrade my Mac OS because the new Mac OS won't even run Freehand because there's no Rosetta. 20 years of files. CS5 does open Freehand files fine, but I'm so lost on it, it makes me crazy. For 98% of the stuff I do which is vector Freehand does exactly what I need it to do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qZgT3fnwOU

 

[WildWestDesigns]

I look at value as the only thing that matters.

I do too. The value to me isn't there. Not to make me shell out a monthly fee til I either retire or until I do something else.

You essentially will get every application they have. On top of that you will always be up to date. No need to worry about upgrades.

If you are always up to date, technically speaking, aren't you always upgrading?

Online storage for your files and easy syncing between where you access them and any device you want.

Cool, but like I said, in my instance not with the price of admission over the long haul.

They are making it easier to do business where ever you are and with whatever device you have with you. In my opinion that is invaluable.

It's fairly simple now for me.

Collaboration on designs between you, your peers/coworkers and the client looks like it has never been easier and more efficient.

Not really. It's just going about it in a different way. Different in of itself isn't bad, I'm not saying that.

The biggest thing here is how you are setup. Typically, I can see the "big boys" being in a better position to take full advantage of this then the little guys.

My biggest fear is actually losing options more then it is the upgrade policy.

$49.99/mo is a bargain when you think about the possibilities.

When you look at it monthly, yes it is. However, you have to look at it over the time that you will be using it and determine that cost.

Although, you are going to have a hard sell on the price aspect with me. I already think that $2,599 is a bargain for 16 "professional grade" programs. One program (just one) that I use, you could buy the Master Suite 5.7 times at full retail. The tax(TN rate) on it alone would pay for Design Standard and have change left over. So I'm a very hard sell when it comes to the price argument for this. I know I'm very much the minority on that point, just coming from a different perspective.

 

[Dave Rowland]

i really hoped they had sorted out Team Licenses so i knew what they were going to offer for the future .. see FAQ..

 

[Typestries]

I'm still sore they purposely bought Freehand only to kill it. I'm having a very tough time learning Illy, and I can't upgrade my Mac OS because the new Mac OS won't even run Freehand because there's no Rosetta. 20 years of files. CS5 does open Freehand files fine, but I'm so lost on it, it makes me crazy. For 98% of the stuff I do which is vector Freehand does exactly what I need it to do.

for 98% of the stuff in signmaking, FREEHAND is faster and easier. Why take 3 or 4 clicks or pull dropdowns in illy to do something that's one click in freehand?

I'm with ya, stuck not upgrading a few boxes due to lack of rosetta.

very frustrating

 

[WildWestDesigns]

for 98% of the stuff in signmaking, FREEHAND is faster and easier. Why take 3 or 4 clicks or pull dropdowns in illy to do something that's one click in freehand?

I have found out the same thing with regard to Ai versus Corel with some of the stuff that I do as well.

I was kinda forced into Corel due to the aforementioned program in my last post and for what I do, it's easier then Ai.

 

[CES020]

By the time everyone with a product converts us all to the cloud theory, and we're all paying monthly fees, we'll all be raising our prices or going out of business.

SignVox is $130 (or somewhere in there) a month, now it's $50 a month for this, so we're pushing $200 a month in fees that have to be paid. What's next? We will be in the $500 a month area just to "operate".

That's the failed logic of those that don't offer stand alone products.

What happens if we're at the $500 a month level for all this mess, and then the little shops have a bad month and we have to make a decision, do we pay to keep running or pay our rent or utilities.

When the software is one price, I can make a decision to buy it when I can afford it. When you lock me into a subscription, I lose control over my ability to buy something. You're going to force me to buy it whether or not I can afford it.

If I don't pay, then I lose the software.

If I bought the software and I have a bad month, then I'm out nothing. My bottom line doesn't suffer because of it and I can pay my rent or my bills.

You might have a great product and the cloud might be great for your product, but you have to think about the dozens of other people that are going to do the same thing and all with a monthly fee. Pretty soon, the monthly fees are going to add up to numbers that actually do cause people to have issues with it.

Personally, I think the upgrade pricing on CS6 is cheap. $275 gets me upgraded on InDesign, Photoshop, and Illustrator? I'll cough up $275 once a year rather than $600 a year for the subscription.

 

[omgsideburns]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qZgT3fnwOU

wow. the guy in that video doesn't know how to use illustrator.

 

[rjssigns]

I'll stick with CS5 Standard and keep my 50 bux a month. From my perspective I cannot even begin to use the vast capability within Ai and PS for our client work. Even when I do personal projects I utilize very little of the program resources.

Can anyone on this board truly say they can drive the everlivin' whee out of Ai or PS? Didn't think so. So why buy the latest version?

And the folks that say what if your client brings you this file or wants this?
Save it. You could what if your business right into the dirt.

Adobe is engaged in revenue enhancement in my opinion. I believe they found their revenue stream for disc sales wasn't where it needed to be. Looking at their installed base an accountant said lets rent it to users. Guaranteed monthly revenue. Many will "buy in" to the program others will use alternatives. And you can bet yer a** it won't stay $49.99 forever.

 

[Bobby H]

I could turn out to be wrong, but I think Adobe's strategy of placing severe restrictions on upgrade eligibility (their cloud and 1 version back only for discs) is going to backfire on them pretty bad.

Adobe will drag along the users who can most afford to upgrade every single time. I think that's a relatively small group comprised of service bureaus and organizations who buy every Adobe upgrade regardless. But they're going to lose sales from a lot of other people. The users who prefer to skip a version or two before upgrading just won't upgrade anymore. They'll either keep using old Adobe software as long as their computer hardware allows it. Or they'll transition over to software from a competitor.

Adobe will be forced (as what's already happening in certain respects) to offer special upgrade limited offers for registered users of older versions, like CS3 & CS4. They're already going to be losing some people who stuck with CS1, CS2 (and Macromedia Studio 8).

 

[NSDdesigns]

wow. The guy in that video doesn't know how to use illustrator.

tru dat!!

And they're not showing anything Illustrator can do that Freehand can't.....

 

[Tim Kingston]

This is probably a stupid question but that never stopped me before!

If you subscribe to "The Cloud" can you keep your CS4 version on other computers. Here's why I ask - we are a small shop, two designers, myself and the owner. We have a full legal version of CS4 Design Suite. We do not have wireless Internet and my boss is not that interested in "The Cloud" stuff anyways.

However, I am very interested in learning and perhaps producing projects at home to expand the business ( web content, 3D graphics etc. ). I do some projects now such as the odd design and video presentations and get paid for my time through the business.

So, I was thinking about paying for it myself, using it at home for company projects, asking my boss to use the business CS4 credit to reduce the cost to $29 ? month and try and recoup some of my costs through new (company)projects that I would do at home.

I don't see it as unethical but I wouldn't want to adversely affect the regular business in any way. Thanks.

 

[Justin]

You should be able to keep the CS4 version, afaik.. I wouldn't count on it yet though until it's released, and someone actually does it can tell you.


I'll be getting the design standard.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

I did some quick math using Design Premium as that tends to be one that I think most people get as far as the CS goes.

Initial investment: $1,900 for disc and $600 for year subscription.

Each subsequent year: $525 for discs and $600 for year subscription (I couldn't find anything otherwise on that as far as subscription goes).

Based on those figures, it would take 7 yrs and then your initial invest of the discs will be greater then what you get from subscription service. Now that is assuming that prices do not change between those years, which they may or may not. More then likely both will change though, then it would just need to be reevaluated on that. So if all you need and want is the Design Premium and your going to be in the game longer then 7 yrs, it's cheaper to go with the discs, as long as all my figures are correct. I didn't see any price breaks for more then 1 year contracts or renewal breaks etc. I did see a intro price for existing customers, but that's only for the first year, so that might add one or 2 more years to my figure.

Now some will argue about the programs, will that's all well and good if you will actually use them and make money with them. I don't even use the entire Master Suite that I have. I got it because it had all the programs that I wanted and not any other CS collection did. After the novelty wore off over having all those programs, I stopped using the ones that didn't fit into my day-to-day activities. If I had to re-install, like I did on one computer, I just re-installed the ones that I actually used and didn't take up space with the others.

Now it has to be evaluated on an individual basis, bottom line and what values you put on the services that are extra.

 

[royster13]

Adobe has a deal for 1 year at 29.99 per month if you own any qualifying software.....
https://creativecloud-specialoffer.adobe.com/special-offer/?loc=en_US

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Adobe has a deal for 1 year at 29.99 per month if you own any qualifying software.....
https://creativecloud-specialoffer.adobe.com/special-offer/?loc=en_US

Yea, I believe that's the intro price. The thing with that is if you qualify for that (CS3 and later) more then likely, you qualify for the upgrade price for discs as well. You might save some money the first couple of yrs of using the cloud, but then it all evens out and turn out to cost you more in the end.

If you use all of the programs/services versus you getting the master suite, then you might come out ahead of the game using the cloud. But if you don't use it all, then you just paying extra for stuff.

Not all shops needs are the same though, so I'm sure for some this would be the better way to go, but I could see it not being the case for most of us in this group then for the really big places. Now if you are going purely on wants/desires etc, then none of this matters.

 

[Border]

I plan to preorder the CS6 design standard package on discs today. One of their reps told me I would have the discs by second week of May. The other option is to buy 5.5 disc set now, then get the free upgrade via download in a couple weeks.

 

[Border]

I wouldn't be too surprised if they get folks hooked on using the cloud option, then jack up the cloud prices in another year or two. It would be really hard for some to then justify buying the dics and jumping off the cloud after already laying out so much to the cloud service...

Hmmm

I'll feel better having the discs, personally.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

I wouldn't be too surprised if they get folks hooked on using the cloud option, then jack up the prices in another year or two. It would be really hard for some to then justify buying the dics and jumping off the cloud after already laying out so much to the cloud service...

Hmmm

I'll feel better having the discs, personally.

I wouldn't be surprised at all by that. Even now though with the price of the cloud it doesn't make sense unless you use/need all of their stuff.

I took what I thought was the most purchased suite for this group, Design Premium and compared that to the cloud. That was based on if you are starting from scratch from the point. Don't qualify for upgrade or intro pricing. 7 yrs and the original price of the discs starts going into the positive compared to the cloud. That's assuming that you are in the game for 7 more yrs and that prices don't change (if they did I would highly doubt they would go down, so the question would be how much they went up) between the two. I really think that the cloud though will get higher after a couple of yrs. Every incentive is there for them to do that.