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customer wants .pdf what would you do?
- Thread starter LoGl
- Start date
ucmj22
New Member
Unlimited reproduction rights? Not the same thing at all. The customer paid for the design. At the very LEAST give them a high-rez (rasterized) pdf. I'm leaning towards the full vector version.
Think about it this way, Joe Schmoe comes in to your shop and asks you to design a sign for him. It takes you 90 minutes to complete to satisfaction so you charge 90 min worth of design time. Then he asks for the vector file so he can order $10,000 in signs from the guy in the next town over. Are you going to give him the vector? He paid for your time right...? payment for time does not equal ownership of creative or intellectual property.
radiohead223
New Member
you can alway put a water mark through the image to stop people using it for any large print work
mark galoob
New Member
correct me if im wrong, but this is a sign, not a logo...its a layout:
which i consider vastly different from actual graphic design...
if i was your customer and i paid you 90 min design time i better darn well get the art that i paid for...
now if i was your customer and i paid you 90 min design time, and you explained to me that in order for me to take that art to another printer, it would cost me more than the standard design time, i would laugh at you, and turn around and walk out...you just lost a customer. but at least i would have that understanding. that i did not truely own the art unless i paid "more" for it than your standard design fee.
mark galoob
which i consider vastly different from actual graphic design...if i was your customer and i paid you 90 min design time i better darn well get the art that i paid for...
now if i was your customer and i paid you 90 min design time, and you explained to me that in order for me to take that art to another printer, it would cost me more than the standard design time, i would laugh at you, and turn around and walk out...you just lost a customer. but at least i would have that understanding. that i did not truely own the art unless i paid "more" for it than your standard design fee.
mark galoob
skyhigh
New Member
I guess the way the OP described the situation, I would say the customer owned the image rights.
"paid for all of it"......I read that as a "time & materials" type of thing.
"Design fee".....I do not read that as design time....but could be.
I would have to say the OP is leaving us seasoned veterans questioning what he actually SOLD to the customer.......make me wonder what Joe customer is thinking?
From the way I read his post, I'd say he owes the customer a nice shiney vector copy with matching PMS color codes.
ucmj22
New Member
correct me if im wrong, but this is a sign, not a logo...its a layout:
if i was your customer and i paid you 90 min design time i better darn well get the art that i paid for...
now if i was your customer and i paid you 90 min design time, and you explained to me that in order for me to take that art to another printer, it would cost me more than the standard design time, i would laugh at you, and turn around and walk out...you just lost a customer. but at least i would have that understanding. that i did not truely own the art unless i paid "more" for it than your standard design fee.
mark galoob
If your car needs a new transmission can you take it in and only pay the labor? The design itself holds value that is not covered by a simple labor fee just like a transmission.
Signvertise
New Member
You really know how to get people fired up! I understand the position of most of the respondents to this thread, and respect their right to retain control of the artwork that they create unless a license fee is paid to use it elsewhere... I don't sweat it - if a client asks for the artwork, I ask them what format and give it to them. If they really want to go to another graphics provider, then we really didn't do our job, which is to ensure that the last thing they want to do is ever leave us! I want our clients to prefer to leave their spouse than Signs By Tomorrow - Richmond! 
signage
New Member
If they really want to go to another graphics provider, then we really didn't do our job, which is to ensure that the last thing they want to do is ever leave us! I want our clients to prefer to leave their spouse than Signs By Tomorrow - Richmond!
SightLine
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I just open passworded PDF's with Flexisign..... it is oblivious to PDF passwords. Then I can take the vectors and do what I want with them.
Signvertise said:if a client asks for the artwork, I ask them what format and give it to them. If they really want to go to another graphics provider, then we really didn't do our job, which is to ensure that the last thing they want to do is ever leave us! I want our clients to prefer to leave their spouse than Signs By Tomorrow - Richmond!
Different Point of view and I like it. May have changed my way of thinking about this matter.
Jc
WhiskeyDreamer
Professional Snow Ninja
I can drag security PDFs in Composer and it opens them without a problems.
mark galoob
New Member
Actually if u took your car in for a new tranny. You would pay for the labor to install and the parts themselves. So by that explanation ur saying if I paid u to install I can't let anybody else work on the tranny without paying u a license fee.
Lol. Think about this from your cust perspective. If I was ur cust and u pulled that doo doo on me I would go elsewhere. Why. Because you are double charging me. That is exactly what it looks like. If I pay u to design something for me and then u don't give me the design I paid for I am being cheated. How long are u gonna last in any business with a rep like that
Mark galoob
Lol. Think about this from your cust perspective. If I was ur cust and u pulled that doo doo on me I would go elsewhere. Why. Because you are double charging me. That is exactly what it looks like. If I pay u to design something for me and then u don't give me the design I paid for I am being cheated. How long are u gonna last in any business with a rep like that
Mark galoob
ForgeInc
New Member
It might be different in the sign industry with different expectations, but I've been a designer for nearly 20 years and whenever I have been paid for a design and someone asks for the artwork files I give em to em. I can see ya'alls point though, as you make most of your money from producing signs.
But consider taking the sign/end product completely out of the equation. If you are designing something, doesn't matter if it's a logo or not, if your customer pays you for it then they should get the files to do with as they please. If they hired you for the design and were happy with it, they will come back to you and have you design (or print) more stuff for them. I know that 100% of my customers would be pissed and not do work with me again if I refused to hand over files when asked.
To me this is a perfect example of Dan's argument that printing is basically a commodity, any ole shop with a printer or vinyl cutter can make signs or business cards. It's the design, service, and other non-tangible qualities that stand your business apart and if you are diversified enough and valuable to your customer they will always come back to you anyway so they most likely won't NEED the artwork.
My humble $.02.
But consider taking the sign/end product completely out of the equation. If you are designing something, doesn't matter if it's a logo or not, if your customer pays you for it then they should get the files to do with as they please. If they hired you for the design and were happy with it, they will come back to you and have you design (or print) more stuff for them. I know that 100% of my customers would be pissed and not do work with me again if I refused to hand over files when asked.
To me this is a perfect example of Dan's argument that printing is basically a commodity, any ole shop with a printer or vinyl cutter can make signs or business cards. It's the design, service, and other non-tangible qualities that stand your business apart and if you are diversified enough and valuable to your customer they will always come back to you anyway so they most likely won't NEED the artwork.
My humble $.02.
ucmj22
New Member
your representation of my comment is twisted. as I stated before, if you go to a mechanic because your transmission is busted you cant expect to pay them just for the labor and not the transmission itself. If someone pays me for my time to design something they do not own my design just the same as if I pay someone for their time to install the transmission I do not own the transmission. a finished design is a product unto itself that can not be included in labor... at least mine are, give yours away for free if thats what they are worth to you.
All of these questions are easily solved if you have an existing store policy and something the customer signs which outlines their rights and what they're paying for. Every shop is going to treat this issue differently. If you didn't explain their customer rights up front then you're going to be stuck in these judgment calls constantly and no one will ever be fully satisfied about it (you or them). I'll never understand why this industry seems to be so blind on how to handle the design aspect of the business.
ForgeInc
New Member
this
signage
New Member
Mark if you buy a car does that give you the rights to manufaturering more cars t sell? You bought the car so you own the rights to make copies of it, that is the way your thing comes across to me! Or better yet if you buy a painting you can make copies of it to sell or give you your freinds?
signage
New Member