Customers doing it themselves.

[James Burke]

I'm a member on another forum and lately I've been cautious about handing out too many technical tips due to the fact of local and regional competetors browsing the same forum. Most of the forum members post their entire equipment list in their signature at the bottom of each post...nothing like a little braggin' to your competetor...who now knows what it takes to "one up" you. (I guess you could always fib, and keep 'em guessing)

Just a quick search in Google brings up some of my posts on certain topics, and while I don't use my real name, the valuable information is there for them to use.

Big bummer since I really like lending a helping hand....but not to someone who is going to ultimately cut it off.

JB

 

[signswi]

Good design. Advertising. Strategy. Sound marketing principles, coupled with sound design theory.

Take a look around at what's on the street, and tell me there isn't opportunity amidst the trash.

Vinyl by the pound is a no-win strategy that drags those engaged in it to the lowest common denominator, which of course, is price.

Great post, this is my feeling as well. You can compete on quality and service but competing on price alone is a losing game over time. When you start cutting corners you're staring down the barrel. Many shops cut the design and marketing corners, so it's great to see you list them as some of your top advantages--I feel the same way.

 

[royster13]

So out of 100 potential clients, how many are quite happy with "crap" and how many want "quality"?.........Seems to me "quality" sign shop outnumber "quality" clients by a large margin......

 

[SignManiac]

A couple of things. As for customers not knowing good design from bad? The two photos below are generally what I show them. They see my point real quick. As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words...

Also, I have no problem with my clients coming into my production area and seeing my equipment. If they happen to ask what kind of printer I use? I tell them it's a $170,000.00 printer and my router table is a $70,000 specialty tool. That in most cases is enough information to discourage them from wanting to enter the sign business.

And if that's not enough, tell them you need a special file format to work from. We use the one with the .stfu extension. It will take them a while to figure out where to get that software.

 

[Just Another Sign Guy]

Seems to me "quality" sign shop outnumber "quality" clients by a large margin......

i haven't noticed this..what i have noticed is many shops that are trying to sell themselves as 'quality' shops when they are seriously lacking in the design arena, or the fabrication arena, or the installation arena or the absolute worst in my opinion masquerading as having the knowledge and experience to be offering marketing advice after reading a couple books and redigesting that information.

if you are capable of producing results for your clients, if you are capable of solving their problem or need (whatever that is) if your product makes them a profit rather than your product or services just being another expense..you will have loyal clients that are willing to pay top dollar for those results.

 

[J Hill Designs]

...And if that's not enough, tell them you need a special file format to work from. We use the one with the .stfu extension. It will take them a while to figure out where to get that software.

rofl

 

[Techman]

Sound marketing principles,

This is about the best sentence written this month..

I once met one of the world's best gymnasts. Her name starts with a T and is a famous Olympic gold medalist. I talked with her coaches many times and did a few projects with them. I shared some space with their gymnastic program location...

I also knew a run of the mill average gymnastics coach and gym at another location too.

Guess which one starved and lost their lease. Guess which one grew to capacity? Guess which one had to take a job with another fitness center and earn a salary less than they should have.

The successful one operated a gym teaching gymnastics using first year starter dance instructors. He was no superstar he used third rate technicians to teach, and had no superstar role models to point too.

All he had was a great marketing system and he ran it like a machine. He took a commodity level program and built it until it was no longer a commodity. He turned it into a very profitable business using the lowest of ability personnel.

The gym with world class Olympic level coaches and a genuine gold medalist on staff starved. They felt unappreciated. Yes they were the very best yet could not make a living. They had no plan to run a business. They were just another example of the very best of technicians who were reduced to a commodity. What a shame.

It was a lesson I learned well. How did a run of the mill technician build a business on one hand,, and an Olympic quality program failed on the other hand? One talked about and sold the benefits he had to offer and the other talked about and sold how good they were.

The world revolves around marketing whether we like it or not. Learn marketing skills and remove yourselves from the commodity market.

At the very least learn the 4 P's. That in itself will do wonders..

 

[signswi]

So out of 100 potential clients, how many are quite happy with "crap" and how many want "quality"?.........Seems to me "quality" sign shop outnumber "quality" clients by a large margin......

I take it you mean that crap outnumbers quality, and while that's the truth, the money jobs are on the quality side of the spectrum in our experience. Everyone is happier working on them, the product is something you can be proud of, and the checks don't bounce because the clients are professional.

It's the huge clients with the repeat, giant orders that pay the bills--the type that pay for the job to be done right the first time and who understand the power of marketing/advertising done well. The myriad of small, one off, crap clients barely cover cost and they have no brand loyalty as they're only concerned with price.

There will always be someone who can beat you in the price game, so you have to compete on other levels. Quality (of print, of design, of marketing, etc.) is one of the major competition points you stand a chance at over the long run, if you invest in quality people, training and position your company correctly in the market. There are others (many sign shops have long used location as their selling point, but this is becoming less and less useful in the age of the internet) but quality is the one thing that is most elusive and valuable--coupled with effective self-marketing and business savvy.

 

[royster13]

My point is that there does not appear to be enough clients looking for quality work to go around these days.....

 

[OldPaint]

My point is that there does not appear to be enough clients looking for quality work to go around these days.....

it because there are SO MANY NON-QUALITY PRINTERS sellin below QUALITY MARKET PRICES...........just to keep the machine running!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and its getting more so everyday.
i understand the economy anit what it was, so you gota do what you gota do, BUT..........I DIDNT LOWER MY PRICES.....for my work, BUT the printer ONLY PLACES HERE.............the only thing they have as a selling point is PRICE!!!!!
as for quality........this is in the eye of the beholder, and most beholders........WANT IT AS CHEAP AS POSSIBLE.........and the printer only places give them what they want.

 

[JR's]

Sorry to here that Mosh hang in there it good to have you around.

It's quite satisfying to see the bad work turned out by my old customers who
decided to do it themselves... the drawback is, they don't know it's crap.

Steve ain't it the Truth.

JR

 

["Deposit Please"]

Yeah, they want to design it, or have a buddy that can design it, and they want to install the prints too, they just want me to print it. Get the F#@k outa here. I was wondering if he was gonna drink my coffee and check my email for me too. I don't deal with those kinda people I design & print, if they want to install very simple stuff, ok, but don't come crying to me if you mess up. There is an additional charge buddy.

 

[Bly]

Luckily they can't buy skill and talent.
Still, it hurts when that happens.

 

[BobM]

Good design. Advertising. Strategy. Sound marketing principles, coupled with sound design theory.

Take a look around at what's on the street, and tell me there isn't opportunity amidst the trash.

Vinyl by the pound is a no-win strategy that drags those engaged in it to the lowest common denominator, which of course, is price.

Dan has it right on the head. If you're just going to sell volume and price, you are just another wholesaler. Sell your talent, design ability, service. Any moron can be the cheapest, you need to be the most "Cost Effective". "Value Added" should be a part of your sales presentation.

 

[Dan Antonelli]

Generally speaking, most sign companies do not market and present themselves properly, which in turn makes it very difficult for them to sell the concept to others.

Really hard to promote the concept of sound branding principles when your own image is a hodgepodge.

The general reason why most refuse to seek the advice of professionals is there's too much ego at play. And this not only goes for sign people, it goes for most small businesses as well.

David Ogilvy famously once said: “If we hire people who are smaller than we are, we will become a company of dwarfs. If we hire people who are larger than we are, we’ll become a company of giants.”

As owners, most refuse to accept their own limitations, and hamper their own growth and success by that simple fact. I learned long ago I can't be great at everything, so I chose to surround myself with people who were greater than I was. Did it hurt my ego? Nope. Made us a better company.

 

[d fleming]

"so I chose to surround myself with people who were greater than I was"


Absolutely. Well put Dan.

 

[Dan Antonelli]

On subject--

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2a8TRSgzZY&feature=player_embedded

 

[sjm]

Good design. Advertising. Strategy. Sound marketing principles, coupled with sound design theory.

Take a look around at what's on the street, and tell me there isn't opportunity amidst the trash.

Vinyl by the pound is a no-win strategy that drags those engaged in it to the lowest common denominator, which of course, is price.

Good point. At the end of the day a sign could be just a direction arrow.

 

[mark galoob]

the pack and ship business is in the same boat...ups, fed ex, usps, routinly go after our customers and give them their own shipping accounts. hell, they give ebay shippers better discounts than some of the pack and ship stores. one of my friends signed up their dog and their freakin dog got a shippers account. this creates a very dangerous situation for a variet of reasons. not to mention makes my wallet thinner.

i believe the nature of the economy is rapidly changing and it will be interesting to see how it plays out.

mark galoob

 

[Billct2]

Yes, marketing is important and as Techmans example points out good marketing and management will make a mediocre product more succesful.