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Decal printing

R

Rupsty

New Member
Hi,

I have a somewhat specific question. It's hypothetical but does represent a potential scenario I might find myself in soon.

I'd like to print 8000 decals on a vinyl decal material. They would need to be cut to shape. I'd like at least 720x720 dpi. They're approximate size would be 5"x7". How fast could this happen if there were a machine dedicated to getting it done? Which machinery can support high speed + higher (not highest) quality.

I realize I may be leaving out variables and this is not intentional. I'm very new to this kind of printing. I own two 44" Epsons for proofing only. We're a retouching and prepress company and I want to diversify our offering. There is so much out there for a newb like myself. I'm just trying to narrow down my goals and go after what I think I can sell.

Thanks in advance,
Rusty
 
R

Rupsty

New Member
decal quantity..

Hi,

Thanks for the responses. I have a contact that is willing to give me this work if I can do it in a reasonable amount of time. I believe he would give me 3-4 days to do it. The problem is that he already has a vendor who does conventional offset decals for a pretty low price. But the quality is terrible. I realize this quantity is pretty high for a digital device but I wanted to know if there are situations out there that warrant a digital printer/cutter that can get these done in this timeframe.

For me, this may not be a money maker but if I can make a little bit of cash but more importantly, gain experience with the media and machinary, I can grow from there.

I've done some basic calculations on this scenario and believe me, it's on the threshold of making any money at all. Now I'm trying to learn if it can physically be done in 3-4 days using machinery that costs 50-80k.

Thanks again,
Rusty
 
R

Rupsty

New Member
decals

Hi,

Yes, a shape cut but no lamination. I've been asked to match a 39cent per decal price. These would be strictly indoor - they need to be on low-tac adhesive backed vinyl. They will be stuck on glass.

Thanks,
Rusty
 
R

Rupsty

New Member
decals...

yes, they bleed around the entire edge. we create the bleed.

the shape is very basic. sometimes just a rectangular shape, sometimes a piece of art that pops out of the rectangle. no lettering.
 
C

CanuckSigns

Active Member
Rupsty said:
Hi,

Yes, a shape cut but no lamination. I've been asked to match a 39cent per decal price. These would be strictly indoor - they need to be on low-tac adhesive backed vinyl. They will be stuck on glass.

Thanks,
Rusty
Click to expand...

so they want you to match the price of the crappy decals that they are not happy with, and provide a nice decal?

Kinda like going to a lexus dealer and telling them if they can match the price of the kia dealer, they got a deal!
 
Gino

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Unless you have ample drying time, this is going to be hard to print and cut right away if it's small like this and at all intricate. Even if it's a rectangle, you'll have to cut your speed down or it won't cut well, due to the gooieness of the ink in tight quarters. Print time, vs, dry and cure time to cut time is what's going to make or bust this deal for you. In the price range you're seeking, I doubt you can do it.

Doing 8,000 in three days is probably going to cut it real close and allow nothing else to be done.

You do realize that at 39¢ times 8,000 pieces is only a little over $3,000... or about $1.35 a square foot. You're not including your wasted material. You're hardly getting paid for your material, time or machinery, let alone overhead or profit. When buying machinery like this, you should have tons of work already lined up and be quite familiar with all of the equipment's possibilities so you can fit a job like this in around something else and not buy a machine to get the job done and have nothing else backing it up to pay it off.

That machine should be producing close to double or triple what you're thinking of..... to be worthwhile in-house equipment. I'd reconsider and sub the whole thing out.

I realize you gotta start somewhere, so if you want to get your feet wet in the digital world, start out by designing and subbing the work out and finding the area in which you want to concentrate and then purchase a machine geared towards your overall needs rather than one specific job which might take you the wrong direction.
 
R

Rupsty

New Member
decals

watsons signs said:
so they want you to match the price of the crappy decals that they are not happy with, and provide a nice decal?

Kinda like going to a lexus dealer and telling them if they can match the price of the kia dealer, they got a deal!
Click to expand...

this is a very good client of mine. it's a request, not a demand from them. i'm the one soliciting this work. and in the process i'm learning what is and isn't realistic. so, i feel no ill will about it. i think everyone who's spending very large amounts of money on POS products would always like to save money where they can, and this client is no different.

after hearing all the replies, i may pass but i also may find a way to get it done as well. but this forum is filled with people like you that have tons of experience with this kind of thing. i have almost none. so there will be mistakes on my end.

this work also has the real potential to open doors for me. and it's very tempting to do it, even though i may lose money. my choice i know, but sometimes that's how investments work....you lose a little now, and score big later. we'll see.

if anyone still reads this thread, i'd love to hear more opinions. you guys are great.

rusty
 
C

CanuckSigns

Active Member
are the images spot colours, or will you need to print in 4 colour process? if there are less than 3 spot colours, you may want to look into a gerber edge system, it's perfect for small decals.

We did an order for 7000 2" x 6" 2 colour decals on our edge for a customer once that had to be printed, cut and shipped to Alabama in 4 business days and the edge pulled it off without breaking a sweat.
 
Gino

Gino

Premium Subscriber
watsons signs said:
are the images spot colours, or will you need to print in 4 colour process? if there are less than 3 spot colours, you may want to look into a gerber edge system, it's perfect for small decals.

We did an order for 7000 2" x 6" 2 colour decals on our edge for a customer once that had to be printed, cut and shipped to Alabama in 4 business days and the edge pulled it off without breaking a sweat.
Click to expand...

Three days and almost 4 times smaller in area. He has to get.... using a 54" roll he'll get 50 pieces while you're ahead at over 150. You'll reach your goal three times faster.
 
C

CanuckSigns

Active Member
Gino said:
Three days and almost 4 times smaller in area. He has to get.... using a 54" roll he'll get 50 pieces while you're ahead at over 150. You'll reach your goal three times faster.
Click to expand...


My point was more to show that a gerber edge is a great machine for short order decals, the timeline he has to work with is pretty much impossible for anyone short of a screenprinter or offset press.

not to mention that I lost a day because my shipment had to clear customs.
 
R

Rupsty

New Member
decals

Gino said:
Unless you have ample drying time, this is going to be hard to print and cut right away if it's small like this and at all intricate. Even if it's a rectangle, you'll have to cut your speed down or it won't cut well, due to the gooieness of the ink in tight quarters. Print time, vs, dry and cure time to cut time is what's going to make or bust this deal for you. In the price range you're seeking, I doubt you can do it.

Doing 8,000 in three days is probably going to cut it real close and allow nothing else to be done.

You do realize that at 39¢ times 8,000 pieces is only a little over $3,000... or about $1.35 a square foot. You're not including your wasted material. You're hardly getting paid for your material, time or machinery, let alone overhead or profit. When buying machinery like this, you should have tons of work already lined up and be quite familiar with all of the equipment's possibilities so you can fit a job like this in around something else and not buy a machine to get the job done and have nothing else backing it up to pay it off.

That machine should be producing close to double or triple what you're thinking of..... to be worthwhile in-house equipment. I'd reconsider and sub the whole thing out.

I realize you gotta start somewhere, so if you want to get your feet wet in the digital world, start out by designing and subbing the work out and finding the area in which you want to concentrate and then purchase a machine geared towards your overall needs rather than one specific job which might take you the wrong direction.
Click to expand...

Valuable info - once again. Do you think a UV printer would help with dry/cure times?

And yes, I did the math on the dollar amount for this job. : ) It's peanuts, I know.
 
R

Rupsty

New Member
watsons signs said:
are the images spot colours, or will you need to print in 4 colour process? if there are less than 3 spot colours, you may want to look into a gerber edge system, it's perfect for small decals.

We did an order for 7000 2" x 6" 2 colour decals on our edge for a customer once that had to be printed, cut and shipped to Alabama in 4 business days and the edge pulled it off without breaking a sweat.
Click to expand...

it's all cmyk printing. would be nice to just cut pure vinyl though. maybe it would be faster.
 
Mosh

Mosh

New Member
I could do them on our Roland in two days. Cutting them apart will be the PITA!!!

Not that big of a job only $3,200 or so. Sounds like you don't have equipment now, you know there is a learning time on these machines, that is why I still say pass.
 
Gino

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Rupsty said:
Valuable info - once again. Do you think a UV printer would help with dry/cure times?

And yes, I did the math on the dollar amount for this job. : ) It's peanuts, I know.
Click to expand...


We have a flatbed UV and mild solvent roll to roll. The ink on either machine will be too gummy to cut right away. Even UV isn't 100% dried after going through. If your bleed is at all built up with ink, it's nearly impossible. A job we got from a member here at s101 a long time ago was for like 14,000 2.5" x 14" labels. We printed them and worked basically round the clock and got them done in about 6 days. There was no bleed. That's what saved our butts. We got paid well and the customer was totally pleased and repeated this order several more times. The other difference was.... the machine was bought and paid for on the very first job we ever did with it probably a year earlier than that.

There are various schools of thought on how to purchase, use credit or just go haphazardly into debt.

I'm old school. Everything we ever bought except for our building.... was bought cash on the barrel head. In each and every case, we had jobs pending, which enabled us to have the cash to pay for the equipment. We also made sure that not only enough cash was in our hands to pay for the machinery, but we turned a profit and had money left over after the purchase to go have fun.

I would never buy a $50k, $85k or 100k piece of equipment with only a $3,000 possible order pending and nothing else to back it up. What if what they tell you falls through or they find someone else to do it just a little cheaper ?? It's not good business sense with the other part of your business.... to pay Paul by robbing Peter. Simply wanting something to make life easier is not better than subbing and spending wisely and letting your money make money. :thumb:
 
R

Rupsty

New Member
Mosh said:
I could do them on our Roland in two days. Cutting them apart will be the PITA!!!

Not that big of a job only $3,200 or so. Sounds like you don't have equipment now, you know there is a learning time on these machines, that is why I still say pass.
Click to expand...

let me clarify...

if the individual decals are rectangles but the shape inside it is kiss cut, would it still be a pain?

for example, couldn't you just guillotine cut the rectangular shape and avoid the roland cutter altogether?

thanks!
 
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