Designers? Any competent ones out there?

[briderx]

I work in a shop here in Washington. I swear, the designers don't know their way out of a cardboard box. Seems that they care about making everything "pretty" instead of functional. 2 of the 3 have been in the business for over 15 years each. One of them can draw a building and I can guarantee that every single brick in the building will be there, perfectly. But when it comes to the sign thats to be hung on the building, sometimes I have to sit there for a moment, and think, "HOW?!". How can they not draw straight lines? How can a rectangle end up looking like a f#ckedupagon? How come they can't enable the "snap-to" button and align everything? How come there are weird "war wounds" in each letter that are totally unexplainable? I have asked my boss to hire my 6 year old son, as I believe he could design better than some of these guys.

My job is to prepare jobs for the router table. ANYONE that knows anything about router tables know that they are VERY PRECISE MACHINES. Yet, one designer told me, "I set my tolerance to 1/4. I figure that's enough fudge room."

How is this acceptable? When, in the sign industry did this become standardized?

I would love to say that this only happens in this shop, but any drawing I get from ANY company comes the same way.. Carelessly, messy and absoluetely no consideration for anyone else. 99% of the jobs I get from other companies come tilted, like they grabbed the whole drawing and just turned it.

When I send the drawing back, and attach, "can you please fix this?" I get a response of, "it's an easy fix, can't you do it yourself? Or do you need me to do it for you?"

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I will push this aside as laziness and unconsiderate. Man, if only I owned my shop, people like that would NOT be there, no matter how many years they've been in the "biz".

So, the "ROUTER GUY" has to do the designers job...

Where are the competent designers?

 

[Shovelhead]

I feel your pain.
They're schooled in print design so why should "production-ready" matter to them. Most of them are snobs also.

 

[briderx]

I feel your pain.
They're schooled in print design so why should "production-ready" matter to them. Most of them are snobs also.

Oh, I so agree.. I feel like it's my fault everytime I go up there to complain about something they do wrong. I have only been in the business 3 years, but I have "perfectionist" in my genes.. It's not my fault, BUT I want things done correctly. Right now, I am working on a job and I have had to do this guys job, fixing each individual letter for the last 3 hours. My boss comes in and asks "is this done yet?!" as if I have any choice but to make them perfect. I'd rather take the bullet now for taking "too long" on this job, then have it come out like crap and eating a lead salad later.

Blah..

 

[Shovelhead]

Oh, I so agree.. I feel like it's my fault everytime I go up there to complain about something they do wrong. I have only been in the business 3 years, but I have "perfectionist" in my genes.. It's not my fault, BUT I want things done correctly. Right now, I am working on a job and I have had to do this guys job, fixing each individual letter for the last 3 hours. My boss comes in and asks "is this done yet?!" as if I have any choice but to make them perfect. I'd rather take the bullet now for taking "too long" on this job, then have it come out like crap and eating a lead salad later.

Blah..

Who do you think you are questioning someone with a bachelor's in graphic design?
Then again, shouldn't they be working for an ad agency?

 

[briderx]

I am looking for a DESIGNER to come in here and school me on how I am wrong in asking so little?! I am not trying to be mean, I just don't think designers do their job..

Countless jobs have come to me and I have overlooked small mistakes made in the drawing, cutting everything out then realizing it was either the wrong drawing entirely, or they "forgot to change it". AHHHHHHHH!!!

 

[Shovelhead]

"Production-ready" means exactly what it says.
You should be able to load your substrate and go.

 

[omgsideburns]

Came from design.

Make the designers learn how to make the signs before they start designing at the shop.. then they will design from the viewpoint of "if i was the guy that had to put this shit together..."

 

[peavey123]

I know when I was in school for Graphic Design I was never taught about anything other than the print industry. There was nothing on large format digital printing at all. Really though, it only takes a quick call to your sign guy to figure out proper file set-up. Its not complicated at all. There are just too many designers out there who think they know it all.

The last file I got from a "high-class designer" had what seemed like 80 clipping masks in one file which was a print and cut job. All that time I spend messing around with their file sucks, but I always make sure to let them know I am charging accordingly for my time.

 

[RebeckaR]

My inhouse designer is a former print guy (actually he's fabulous) and is absolutely meticulous about what he does.
His opinion is:
Designers are lazy. They are taught to prepare for print and just give you a blank look when you ask them to clean it up so you can cut it. However, most of them don't know what they're doing when preparing for print either.

Lately I've dealt with a couple of people who want to use their own artwork. I tell them I need it to be vectorized or there will be an art setup fee.
"Oh, we have PS3, so that's no problem."

Right.... Evidently PS3 translates to Photoshop.
I am surrounded by morons.

 

[OADesign]

Came from design.

Make the designers learn how to make the signs before they start designing at the shop.. then they will design from the viewpoint of "if i was the guy that had to put this shit together..."

What he said!

All these guys that call them selves designers don't have a clue. In their mind, as long it it looks good in 2d (meaning onscreen) they think its ok.
That could not be the furthest thing from the truth. I learned the hard way working in a 5 man shop that turned in one ( that one being me ). You start cutting the jobs that I designed. I found my seld saying "Man who designer this ish.... Oh that me". Soon realized that there was a better way. And now when i do that type of work I always talk to the production guy first and find out how they like it.

 

[omgsideburns]

Right.... Evidently PS3 translates to Photoshop.
I am surrounded by morons.

Photo Shop 3.. duh. :Big Laugh:ROFLMAO:

 

[briderx]

Wow, not alone here.

I do have to admit. One guy here does amazing work. After making his "pretty" artwork, he turns around and makes one production ready. He literally takes the sign, gets rid of the bullcrap plants surrounding the sign, gets rid of the buildings and every other marking that doesn't help me and puts it into a separate file. he then makes sure his numbers match. He doesn't "alter his measurements" to what they SHOULD be. He actually makes them accurate.. It's amazing. i do catch him every once in a while, but not as much as the other two..

 

[gps-hi]

I've always disliked broad stroke generalizations... One would think from reading this thread that there are no competent designers anywhere. This can't be true judging from the number of signs I see everyday.

Like Tony, I come from a design background and still consider myself a graphic designer (not a graphic artist). While I can't speak for all designers, I know that I've generally tried to understand the production process and intended usage for the work I've done. I guess I've also been fortunate to have been involved in the production side in some capacity for most of my career.

If you're not getting what you need from a given designer, educate them on what you need. Invite them to come see the production process so they understand why you're asking for what you are. I'd like to believe that most people want to do a good job and will strive to do so if given the knowledge and tools to do so. Even us lowly designers.

If the designer refuses to listen, notify the client employing the designer. If the client is the designer then let them know you can't help them if they can't help you.

There are good and competent designers out there. Don't give up hope.

 

[Techman]

I go up there to complain about something they do wrong. I have only been in the business 3 years, but I have "perfectionist" in my genes.. It's not my fault, BUT I want things done correctly.

Actually being a graphic designer does not make them experts in all areas of graphic layout. I know a few graphic designers who are giants in their trade but couldn't set up a cut file if their life depended on it. Nor do they want too.

Looks like you will either learn to live with it and help educate your clients or you will have a nice breakdown.. They do not have the particular skills that it takes to run a router table. I myself did not have the insight into those skills until I ran one myself. There are others here running routers who all have the same outlook. Those files will continue to come in "not ready" for eternity. It's not a fault. It's a fact of life.

I would go up there with the attitude of enlightenment rather than its "its their fault". Complaining creates a victim mentality.

Good luck...

 

[FatCat]

After spending 15 years working mainly in prepress of the offset printing world I can tell you some horrific stories about "graphic designers" and the problems I've had to fix. Sadly, even those who went to some design school are only trained in theoretical art and color theory - not production methods or what I would call "real-world" design.

We recently just fired a customer because they insisted on using their in-house graphic designer for all print jobs. The last job we did we billed over 7 add'l prepress fix items due to improper resolution, size, color space etc. I can't tell you how many times I've instructed her on how to set up bleeds, create print-ready PDF's, account for folding/cutting etc. and the very next job its like she was back to square 1.

Stick to your guns, unless its a huge job that you've built in some cushion always make sure they supply you art files the way YOU want them. Anything else gets billed by the hour.

 

[thewood]

This thread makes me smile. It's nice to know others have to deal with these "professionals", too.

 

[briderx]

Unfortunately I am not top dog in the shop.. Our in-house designers are my main concern. I have tried educating, but feel that I don't have the "years of knowledge" to enlighten upon them. I have never said "all" or implied "all" what I do imply is that every single designer our shop has used (outside the company) can't seem to get it. I did note that there is 1 designer in our company that does a pretty damn good job. Now, I am also not in the position to tell designers from other companies how things should be. I don't have that power in this shop. I am not allowed to contact them for any reason. On top of that, our company bills my design time, as well as our designers time to the shop. So, ultimately, our shop pays for the mess ups. My boss won't let me convey that information to another company, and insists that I just "fix it".

Again, I am not grouping EVERY designer out there.. It makes sense from a different standpoint that designers don't know how a router works, or how it should be. BUT, if you're designing something, don't you take pride in your work? If someone were to see your design, wouldn't you feel obligated to create something to the best of your ability? Not have lines 1/2" off or justify to 1/4"? Wouldn't you try for a 0 tolerance?

On top of that, I have tried numerous times explaining my side to it, adding how long it takes to fix those mistakes they make up there, yet only 1 gets it. The other one says that they're "simple fixes" so I should just do it. The 3rd says "since when did we go by our drawings?!?"

Sometimes, you just have to give up.

This thread is really just me venting. There isn't any possible resolution I could get by complaining to you guys..

 

[Billct2]

If you're not getting what you need from a given designer, educate them on what you need. Invite them to come see the production process so they understand why you're asking for what you are. I'd like to believe that most people want to do a good job and will strive to do so if given the knowledge and tools to do so. Even us lowly designers.

Nice thought but in reality....:ROFLMAO:
No really, you don't think we've tried educating the client/designer over and over and over again?
I have a buddy that has a printing company with two designer, they are apparently incapable of converting to outlines and saving as a legacy version
of ai, they say it can't be done!
As for inviting them over....they'd probably bill you $150 an hour for the visit.

 

[BobM]

I've used Phil on a number of jobs sucessfully.

phillip@signamigo.com.

 

[gabagoo]

I think all design schools should be giving appropriate time to students to understanding the production side of the business. Good file manipulation should be mandatory in being allowed to graduate. I have had my share of young green designers and hey they need to be given a chance to learn but not on my dime. I used to do work for a larger pizza franchise and I swear every file that came in was an absolute nightmare trying to understand what the designer had done. I usually had to bother friends who worked in mac to try and figure out what they were doing. I would call and talk to them and make them understand the type of files we would need to cut vinyl but they had no concept of the difference between vectors and bitmaps and would save a bitmap as an eps file and send it. Or worse they had overlapping everywhere and the fiule needed an hours work to get cut. Drove me crazy and the worse part was that the art department of this company did not pay well so designers would last maybe 6 months and I would have to start all over with a new one. same problems. The worse part is that somehow you are made to feel incompetant because you cant or wont work with their files.


I have met some very competant designers who know their craft quite well and understand what sign shops and production facilities need to get the job done. You dont have to tell them a thing thewy send eps files with pdf backups and everything is done 100% perfect, and thats how we generally quote jobs......workable files?