Does anybody use flat pricing for their vehicle wraps?

[signman315]

Legit question - what do you do when your demand increases from the same customers and not from an increased base? That is our problem now, we raise quotes pretty high for "walk ins" and they go away but our established people keep loading us up with more than we can handle. Most already have corporate approval on pricing which takes time and they are using pre-established capex budgets. I almost want to give quantity surcharges rather than discounts.

Fair enough lmao there’s sense to that...but seriously though grow your business at that point if you want to and if it’s right, OR take advantage of the demand for your product and increase prices...increase profits while reducing work load by scaring off the low budget stuff...sometimes growth is overrated haha! I heard somewhere that if you’re not losing 1/3 of your bids/quotes then your prices are too low.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Legit question - what do you do when your demand increases from the same customers and not from an increased base? That is our problem now, we raise quotes pretty high for "walk ins" and they go away but our established people keep loading us up with more than we can handle. Most already have corporate approval on pricing which takes time and they are using pre-established capex budgets. I almost want to give quantity surcharges rather than discounts.

Sad that you have to start off with "Legit question" ...but that's what you gotta do around here.

That is one I struggle with. When I start getting overwhelmed, I immediately raise prices for new customers to slow the flow... sometimes significantly. If it's coming from my "core repeat" clients that I like, I have to make the tough call and raise it on the ones that are the least profitable. I do run the risk of completely loosing an account by doing that, but that's what I have to do to prevent over-working myself.

Example of how I evaluate..

Customer A= Spends 10k a month, I can make $150/hr, pays super fast and is easy to work with.
Customer B= Spends 1k a month, I can make $100/hr, easy to work with too.
Customer C= Spends 9k a year, I can make $100/hr, pays slow, always in a rush.

Even though Client C has been a good to me, I'll choose to raise his price or just refer his jobs out and not deal with rush this person always puts me in.

It's tough raising prices on a client seemingly out of the blue, because at some point they will jump ship, but it's either them or my family.


I did decals for a large, national gas company that everyone has seen their trucks or train cars before. When I was starting out this account was PAYING MY BILLS and keeping my business alive. Over time though, I had more profitable work come in and I could make much more per/hour then on the ****** Gas jobs. Eventually I asked them for a price increase and was approved for 20%. After about another year it was clear that I needed to phase out this client because the profit wasn't matching up with my new customers. I did ask for another increase and they denied it and moved on to another vendor. It was disappointing that I could no longer help a customer that helped me keep the lights on in that early stage, but I needed to progress with my business and had to let them go. Looking back, I do not for one second miss that account, but I am VERY thankful for having them when I did.

 

[Jester1167]

How'd you get the big text on the sides so square and let the DOT numbers go down hill?

All the graphics on the cab are old, box was new (actually wrapped over old liquid lam graphics). Unit#s are the only thing that looks odd to me

 

[equippaint]

All the graphics on the cab are old, box was new (actually wrapped over old liquid lam graphics). Unit#s are the only thing that looks odd to me

I just wanted to bust your chops. There was a thread the other day about body line alignment.

 

[equippaint]

Sad that you have to start off with "Legit question" ...but that's what you gotta do around here.

That is one I struggle with. When I start getting overwhelmed, I immediately raise prices for new customers to slow the flow... sometimes significantly. If it's coming from my "core repeat" clients that I like, I have to make the tough call and raise it on the ones that are the least profitable. I do run the risk of completely loosing an account by doing that, but that's what I have to do to prevent over-working myself.

Example of how I evaluate..

Customer A= Spends 10k a month, I can make $150/hr, pays super fast and is easy to work with.
Customer B= Spends 1k a month, I can make $100/hr, easy to work with too.
Customer C= Spends 9k a year, I can make $100/hr, pays slow, always in a rush.

Even though Client C has been a good to me, I'll choose to raise his price or just refer his jobs out and not deal with rush this person always puts me in.

It's tough raising prices on a client seemingly out of the blue, because at some point they will jump ship, but it's either them or my family.


I did decals for a large, national gas company that everyone has seen their trucks or train cars before. When I was starting out this account was PAYING MY BILLS and keeping my business alive. Over time though, I had more profitable work come in and I could make much more per/hour then on the ****** Gas jobs. Eventually I asked them for a price increase and was approved for 20%. After about another year it was clear that I needed to phase out this client because the profit wasn't matching up with my new customers. I did ask for another increase and they denied it and moved on to another vendor. It was disappointing that I could no longer help a customer that helped me keep the lights on in that early stage, but I needed to progress with my business and had to let them go. Looking back, I do not for one second miss that account, but I am VERY thankful for having them when I did.

My fatal flaw is that I want all of the business that produces volume. Im a work hoarder.
Its hard to balance cash flow needs vs higher profit jobs that dont produce enough raw dollars. All else equal, Id have to take a $10k job at 10% profit over a few $1000 jobs at 50% profit. The 10k covers my overhead in a week, 1k doesnt.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

My fatal flaw is that I want all of the business that produces volume. Im a work hoarder.
Its hard to balance cash flow needs vs higher profit jobs that dont produce enough raw dollars. All else equal, Id have to take a $10k job at 10% profit over a few $1000 jobs at 50% profit. The 10k covers my overhead in a week, 1k doesnt.

I know what you mean. I didn't want to loose a sure thing with that gas company. But will getting rid of that 10k job free you up to take on higher profit work? There is safety with the volume jobs, but it comes at a cost.

 

[HDvinyl]

I tell customers I would work for free.

But then I invoice them letting them know I meant to say "wouldn't"

 

[Megagrafix]

What is the goal here.....Make as many dollars as possible without losing the sale. If you do great work the “customer experience” will take care of itself.

 

[kcollinsdesign]

The value of a wrap is the return on investment. As a designer, I focus on the marketing value of the advertising. The skill and time involved in designing messaging appropriate to the client's needs is the dominant investment. Measuring, printing and installing a vehicle wrap is fairly settled business and and can be quoted easily. Flat rate pricing works fine for this stage of the job (after the design is approved).

 

[TimToad]

Why do you think it'd be a disaster?

We could set prices for cars, cans, and trucks separately without having to worry about the difference in Square feet between say a Prius and a Focus.

Ever wrap a VW Beetle? Roughly same square footage as a Prius or Focus, vastly different installation challenges. We get calls all the time from people wanting a quote sight unseen and usually the ones who resist sending photos or stopping by so we can look are the ones that have challenging vehicle types, condition issues or don't have the money for a full wrap to begin with.

We're happy to throw out a range of pricing to those types between $10-$15 per square foot, but we rarely ever see or hear from them again.

 

[kcollinsdesign]

In my area (small city) we have a number of shops that specialize in wraps. They do a fair job of installation, but the designs are atrocious. Armor plate and lightning bolts and flames with triple outlines and shadowed lettering that includes enough copy for a short novel. Completely unreadable, and as far as I can tell have no value for the client. All of these shops use flat rate pricing and will quote a job sight unseen over the phone. Most customers will go to several shops, ask for a design, then choose the one they like best. Then they will shop the chosen design and go with the company that offers to do it the cheapest/fastest. I think it is a pretty good business model (as long as you don't waste too much time on the design). Average price, installed, is about $6.50/sq. ft. Average pay is around $15/hr for a good wrap professional.

I cannot compete with those shops. Right off the bat my prices are about 50% higher because I insist on using premium materials and I pay my installers more. I also feel like I am doing my client a dis-service when I offer a design that I know is unreadable and useless. My readable, effective designs that support the clients marketing objectives usually lose out to the armor plate and flames (as one long time client explained: I just wanted more color, seeing as though it costs the same for the printing).

I do have some long-term clients who appreciate my marketing based designs and my emphasis on legibility, branding, and identity. I will charge my standard rate for the design work, then we will shop the printing and installation. I know I am missing out on some of the profits, but at least I can sleep well at night!

 

[Jester1167]

$6.50 a sq ft? WOW 20 years ago it was $13 to $15 a sq ft without design. The old control-tac without air egress only added several hours to an install.

We've come a long way baby, I wouldn't do it for less than $10 without design...

 

[TimToad]

$6.50 a sq ft? WOW 20 years ago it was $13 to $15 a sq ft without design. The old control-tac without air egress only added several hours to an install.

We've come a long way baby, I wouldn't do it for less than $10 without design...

When the intrinsic value of the ADVERTISING is forgotten or ignored by the vendor and everything is commodified down to a simple mathematical equation based on expenses and desired profit margin, we see the race to the bottom take over.

I applaud and have the utmost respect for my peers and colleagues who have enough self-respect to reject that approach.

We have a couple local competitors using the race to the bottom strategy and we even see one advertising cheap wraps and "specials" in those ad pages inserts that come in your mailbox once month. That ad format screams "I'm a struggling business desperate for sales".

We lose most full wrap bids, but have a healthy vehicle graphics business which balances all the other segments of our stable and growing market share. We also get our share of disgruntled former clients of the others who get upset when the promised boost in business doesn't occur because of the visually ineffective design, mediocre installation and substandard materials fail prematurely.

 

[kcollinsdesign]

Jester: I agree. I (used to) charge about $12.00/sq. ft. installed for IJ 180 w/ top lam. The shops around here are using calandered vinyl when they can get away with it, and when they need cast vinyl they are paying $400.00 for a 54" x 150' roll of "house brand" material. They are coming in at about $1.50 sq. ft. printed with top laminate. If you have a job that takes 200 sq. ft. that's $300.00 cost plus labor and markup. Figure it takes two guys 10 hours at a burdened labor rate of $20.00/hr. per guy (add $400) and you have a job cost of $700. With a 40% margin that can be sold for $1167.00! A little under $6/sq. ft., but by the time you add taxes and a small design charge you are right at $6.50 sq./ft.

When I use 3M IJ 180 (with 3M top lam), my material cost for the same job is closer to $500.00. My burdened labor rate is closer to $25.00/hr, so the total cost for the job is closer to $1000.00. With 40% profit margin I need to sell that job for $1667.00, and when I add my design time closer to $2000.00 (right around $10.00 sq. ft.).

It makes more sense for me to charge my full rate for design, then help the client select a fabricator/installer. It's still more expensive for the client, but for those select clients that are not interested in armor plate and lightning bolts it is a good deal!

 

[Pat Whatley]

$6.50 a sq ft? WOW 20 years ago it was $13 to $15 a sq ft without design [/QUOTE

God, I absolutely hate hearing those "we used to make $185 an hour to take a shit" stories. 20 years ago there was one company doing wraps in town...today there are 5 and another dozen who sell them and outsource the installation. Twenty years ago we were getting $7.50 per square foot for 10 ounce banners with vinyl letters on them, today we routinely do $4.00 a square foot in full color. Magnetics in 1995 were $60 a pair, today we sell them for $50 a pair. Price keep dropping yet somehow, amazingly, we are making a hell of a lot more money than we used to. Times change, markets adjust, revenue increases....it's just natural business.

 

[kcollinsdesign]

Around here you're lucky to get $3/sq. ft. for a printed vinyl banner. Makes no sense to make them. Most of my clients just order them online for $2/sq. ft.

Pat Whatley: I am not carping about prices. Of course things change. I just find it interesting. This business has evolved to the extent that products are commoditized and design is considered seperately. This opens up opportunities for companies that specialize in design and marketing. For those in the fabrication and installation side of the business, it presents different challenges.

This thread started as an inquiry of flat-pricing for wraps. I think this issue of commoditized fabrication and the separate consideration of design is the nut of the matter. Now that anybody can order professional quality, ready to apply printed graphics for $3 - $4 sq. ft. (rolled up in a tube and delivered to your door), all you need is a garage and you're in the wrap business. As a designer and an advocate for my client, I appreciate these businesses that can keep their overhead low and turn out a professional product at a competitive price. It gives us additional budget to explore effective marketing and develop appropriate designs.

 

[kalcopy]

We have some flat pricing for parts of vehicle. Such as vehicle door, van side (Lettering), tailgates, bug guards, etc. We do a lot of contractors pickups & vans, as well as their job trailers. So we have a rough sqft price for trailers and simple job vans we use to estimate the customer. If they want to move ahead we mochup a design, work out a more exact price.