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Ethics 101 Maybe
- Thread starter shrmndlit
- Start date
Border
New Member
This has got to be a big joke... We're talkin' aAiken, Minnesota... Near Reemer. (a local joke) Closest bigger town is Brainerd.
Chopper, is that you pullin' everyones' chain? Gotta be a local havin' fun.
Ain't nuthin in Aiken worth a business proposal like this. I don't think they even added a second stop light yet!
But bravo! for stirin' up da sheet!
Time to load up on some
and
and
and then more......
Chopper, is that you pullin' everyones' chain? Gotta be a local havin' fun.
Ain't nuthin in Aiken worth a business proposal like this. I don't think they even added a second stop light yet!
But bravo! for stirin' up da sheet!
Time to load up on some
andandand then more......
Gino
Premium Subscriber
Shrmnd… I have no idea of how you could misread my post in your post #15 so sadly. You are one sick pup.
Maybe you’re not a joke afterall. These kinds of people show up routinely. They know all the ‘In & Outs’ and have a great connect with the future and how they will set the world on fire.
These are the best kind of people to have for competition…. especially across the street. It’s so easy to point out to your customers what to do and not to do, but with an idiot right across the street… well, seeing is believing. This would be like a proctologist pointing out the hemorrhoids up your butt and you’re still saying…. they don’t exist because I can’t see that far up my own butt. How long until they become inflamed and really cause a problem ??
Maybe you’re not a joke afterall. These kinds of people show up routinely. They know all the ‘In & Outs’ and have a great connect with the future and how they will set the world on fire.
These are the best kind of people to have for competition…. especially across the street. It’s so easy to point out to your customers what to do and not to do, but with an idiot right across the street… well, seeing is believing. This would be like a proctologist pointing out the hemorrhoids up your butt and you’re still saying…. they don’t exist because I can’t see that far up my own butt. How long until they become inflamed and really cause a problem ??
If this isn’t a joke, than I would invite you to find some help. You’re certainly in need of some medication for your disillusions. Please take the time to re-evaluate your business plan and seek the needed help you so obviously need. 
SignosaurusRex
Active Member
Hey, aren't you that guy that advertised the shit out of Printed Magnetic signs all over the web, made a bundle of dough and never shipped a single order?:Oops:
Did your mother have any children with brains?
Some people are only alive because its illegal to kill them!
You have a very perverted sense of self worth!
Does your father know you exist?
You have a great business plan, go for it dude. Everyone has the right to be a miserable failure!
YOU DISGUST ME!!!
OK, I've expressed enough hate for today.
Did your mother have any children with brains?
Some people are only alive because its illegal to kill them!
You have a very perverted sense of self worth!
Does your father know you exist?
You have a great business plan, go for it dude. Everyone has the right to be a miserable failure!
YOU DISGUST ME!!!
OK, I've expressed enough hate for today.
Ok so I get the general feeling that you all would say unethical. HA HA.
I know this goes aside from the question but I have to, pro image I do not speak out or advise on sign making because I know nothing of it perhaps you should chose the same course when speaking about things you may not know about, read the def for Anti-trust. You are way off here I can in no way, try as I might skew normal marketplace competition or yield undesirable price controls. I am in no way forming a trust or monopoly on the Sing industry. The primary reason for anyone to open a shop, in most cases, is to produce profits. My purpose for opening said shop would be to achieve a certain level of profit. Now if this includes a strategy that might or will in my eyes likely put another person out of business that is just tough luck. As repeated many times in this thread there is always someone that can do it faster better and cheaper.
Many have commented on the fact that this is a lowballer strategy, well your right. Ok so what? Are you to tell me that we should all stop going to Wall mart, Target, Lowes, Home Depot, Macy's, Footlocker and Dillard’s because they have and can offer lower prices than all of the mom and pops that they have put out or are putting out of business. No No it’s the lack of service and customer service that will put lowballers out of business, I mean because when I go into Wal-Mart the service is bar none, what with all the attendants, polite checkers and such. Must be that Wal-Mart greater that tackles you if you miss that sticker on your return item.
Now another recurring theme is that of low quality work. I never once stated that I would offer low quality work. That is the cardinal sin, as far as I’m concerned. The best practice is to find or produce a quality product and then decide on how to do it at the best price. That is the key, to find the efficacy in the machine and exploit the hell out of it, find and decide where you cut out middle men and pass that saving on to your customer. To offer the same great product as the guy down the road and then do it for less.
Hey tech, for some reason you have taken offence to my compliment. I just don’t understand why you would reverse yourself. I mean you must have thought about what you said before saying it. So why go back on yourself? If you make a statement back it up friend.
I say
I am also in a position to operate a sign shop at a loss of about $20,000, tax breaks for other income, for five years before it would become a problem.
Then you
This is pure bullscat.. Anyone with any knowledge of running a business knows this is pure unadulterated stupidity. You are not a huge conglomerate. You are trying to be a business person. Your duty is to make a profit.
now you say you know its no problem to do that. Which is it?
Again it is my pleasure to be part of such an interactive and lively forum Thank you all.
I know this goes aside from the question but I have to, pro image I do not speak out or advise on sign making because I know nothing of it perhaps you should chose the same course when speaking about things you may not know about, read the def for Anti-trust. You are way off here I can in no way, try as I might skew normal marketplace competition or yield undesirable price controls. I am in no way forming a trust or monopoly on the Sing industry. The primary reason for anyone to open a shop, in most cases, is to produce profits. My purpose for opening said shop would be to achieve a certain level of profit. Now if this includes a strategy that might or will in my eyes likely put another person out of business that is just tough luck. As repeated many times in this thread there is always someone that can do it faster better and cheaper.
Many have commented on the fact that this is a lowballer strategy, well your right. Ok so what? Are you to tell me that we should all stop going to Wall mart, Target, Lowes, Home Depot, Macy's, Footlocker and Dillard’s because they have and can offer lower prices than all of the mom and pops that they have put out or are putting out of business. No No it’s the lack of service and customer service that will put lowballers out of business, I mean because when I go into Wal-Mart the service is bar none, what with all the attendants, polite checkers and such. Must be that Wal-Mart greater that tackles you if you miss that sticker on your return item.
Now another recurring theme is that of low quality work. I never once stated that I would offer low quality work. That is the cardinal sin, as far as I’m concerned. The best practice is to find or produce a quality product and then decide on how to do it at the best price. That is the key, to find the efficacy in the machine and exploit the hell out of it, find and decide where you cut out middle men and pass that saving on to your customer. To offer the same great product as the guy down the road and then do it for less.
Hey tech, for some reason you have taken offence to my compliment. I just don’t understand why you would reverse yourself. I mean you must have thought about what you said before saying it. So why go back on yourself? If you make a statement back it up friend.
I say
I am also in a position to operate a sign shop at a loss of about $20,000, tax breaks for other income, for five years before it would become a problem.
Then you
This is pure bullscat.. Anyone with any knowledge of running a business knows this is pure unadulterated stupidity. You are not a huge conglomerate. You are trying to be a business person. Your duty is to make a profit.
now you say you know its no problem to do that. Which is it?
Again it is my pleasure to be part of such an interactive and lively forum Thank you all.
Dave Drane
New Member
Nah!!! I aint even going antwhere near this one, it is just too stupid for words!!
Jillbeans
New Member
I personally think you have watched reruns of "Pretty Woman" too many times.
The part where Richard Gere is talking to Julia Roberts about how he buys and dismantles corporations and she balks at his clinical thinking.
I don't know about you but I avoid WallyWorld and its companions like the plague. If I want something, and I know its quality, I will happily pay for it. I don't want to rassle with the mouth-breathing hoardes buying cheap import crap. I don't shop at Aldi's for no-name oddball groceries. I try to support the Moms and Pops of this world because I am one. And my customers appreciate the quality of my work and the way my signs look. A few of them have cheated on me with lowball licky-stickies but they always come back, licking their wounds.
How can you even make a profit when you know nothing about this particular business, where almost every product we make is custom and therefore hard to catagorize? How can you make a profit by charging less than the product costs to manufacture? Why don't you just give the signs away free for the first two years? You say you are bringing in employess and a designer. Do you expect them to work for the minimum wage, even if most of them are as unskilled at this business as you? More than likely, once they learn the trade, they will become YOUR competition. Karma is interesting.
I have seen new shops come and go. Yes they have undercut me, but it is sort of fun to watch them struggle making visual pollution, then lowball themselves right out of business. I was once passed over on a job where I would have charged my (then) going rate of $150/2 truck doors by a new gal who did the job for $50. She lasted 6 months.
Another woman's hubby bought her a plotter for a hobby. That lasted about a year until she got a new hobby. Like I said earlier, ANYONE can buy into the sign business. Staying in it, however, is another matter entirely.
PS
Ronna, check out this site:
http://www.tonyaharding.com/
The fantasy section is not for the squeamish.
The part where Richard Gere is talking to Julia Roberts about how he buys and dismantles corporations and she balks at his clinical thinking.
I don't know about you but I avoid WallyWorld and its companions like the plague. If I want something, and I know its quality, I will happily pay for it. I don't want to rassle with the mouth-breathing hoardes buying cheap import crap. I don't shop at Aldi's for no-name oddball groceries. I try to support the Moms and Pops of this world because I am one. And my customers appreciate the quality of my work and the way my signs look. A few of them have cheated on me with lowball licky-stickies but they always come back, licking their wounds.
How can you even make a profit when you know nothing about this particular business, where almost every product we make is custom and therefore hard to catagorize? How can you make a profit by charging less than the product costs to manufacture? Why don't you just give the signs away free for the first two years? You say you are bringing in employess and a designer. Do you expect them to work for the minimum wage, even if most of them are as unskilled at this business as you? More than likely, once they learn the trade, they will become YOUR competition. Karma is interesting.
I have seen new shops come and go. Yes they have undercut me, but it is sort of fun to watch them struggle making visual pollution, then lowball themselves right out of business. I was once passed over on a job where I would have charged my (then) going rate of $150/2 truck doors by a new gal who did the job for $50. She lasted 6 months.
Another woman's hubby bought her a plotter for a hobby. That lasted about a year until she got a new hobby. Like I said earlier, ANYONE can buy into the sign business. Staying in it, however, is another matter entirely.
PS
Ronna, check out this site:
http://www.tonyaharding.com/
The fantasy section is not for the squeamish.
Ian Stewart-Koster
Older Greyer Brushie
"Would you, if you could, put all of the other sign business in your area out of business?
"
definitely not- you never know when you may need to rely on their help!
What about the work you don't want to do- who's going to do that?
How is devalueing the trade going to help the business?
If your attitude to life is to "be mean" rather than "being good", when given a choice, then I wonder what you really want to achieve in life?
"
definitely not- you never know when you may need to rely on their help!
What about the work you don't want to do- who's going to do that?
How is devalueing the trade going to help the business?
If your attitude to life is to "be mean" rather than "being good", when given a choice, then I wonder what you really want to achieve in life?
Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha,
Another newbie who thought they invented the "slash n burn" business plan.
This idea is old, old news. It never has and never will work. The reasons are numerous and patently obvious to anyone who really understands the sign trade.
If the OP wants to waste all his time and all his money to achieve absolutely zero then let him.
We all understand global economic theory and the modus operandi of multi national retail corporations- as this is completely irrelevant to the sign industry it's a waste of time reading through reams and reams of interesting but ultimately pointless drivel.
Come back in 4 years time and tell us how you get on- if your childishly simple business plan works then you will set a record- being the only person who ever made it work.
Good luck
Another newbie who thought they invented the "slash n burn" business plan.
This idea is old, old news. It never has and never will work. The reasons are numerous and patently obvious to anyone who really understands the sign trade.
If the OP wants to waste all his time and all his money to achieve absolutely zero then let him.
We all understand global economic theory and the modus operandi of multi national retail corporations- as this is completely irrelevant to the sign industry it's a waste of time reading through reams and reams of interesting but ultimately pointless drivel.
Come back in 4 years time and tell us how you get on- if your childishly simple business plan works then you will set a record- being the only person who ever made it work.
Good luck
Deaton Design
New Member
IVe got a guy like you in my town. Has the same ideas as you.
It aint workin. He's getting business, but he isnt succeeding in putting me or anyone else out of business, although that is it goal. The only thing he has succeeded in doing is making me and others have no respect for him at all.
The sign business is not just a business. To truly be successful, there must be some talent there. Design and layout knowledge is the key. Vinyl cutters are on every corner, and lots of people that dont know what they are doing. Nowadays anyone can make a sign, but not everyone can make a sign. Know what I mean vern?
I dont know you from anyone, but if you start out by trying to put everyone else out of business, my thoughts are you will surely fail.
It aint workin. He's getting business, but he isnt succeeding in putting me or anyone else out of business, although that is it goal. The only thing he has succeeded in doing is making me and others have no respect for him at all.
The sign business is not just a business. To truly be successful, there must be some talent there. Design and layout knowledge is the key. Vinyl cutters are on every corner, and lots of people that dont know what they are doing. Nowadays anyone can make a sign, but not everyone can make a sign. Know what I mean vern?
I dont know you from anyone, but if you start out by trying to put everyone else out of business, my thoughts are you will surely fail.
os101king
New Member
Yeah, I second that. I think you're full of ... with that "small town america" guy bs. Definitely. Just trying to backpedal away from the second paragraph. Hypocrite.
Joe Diaz
New Member
You know, I keep hearing the only reason to be in business is to make money. I think for some people that may be true… but the reason I go to work as a sign artist every day is to make a living… Let me try to explain the difference.
I only need to make enough money to live comfortably. When I wake up every morning there are two things I have to deal with almost every day. My career, and my life. My life always comes first. And it’s arguable, but the goal in life is to be happy, correct? I mean this post is about ethics isn’t it? Isn’t happiness the goal of living an ethical life? If I were to take your approach and go after only the money, I’m sure that my goal in life… to be happy… would become farther and farther from my reach. How could a person be happy if they were going out of their way to harm someone else’s happiness? How could a person be happy if they have to lose integrity just to reach a business goal? How can you be happy when you upset so many others and make so many enemies? Do you think money is going heal those wounds?
So when I wake up everyday I try to achieve the goal of happiness, not just to make money. I know that if I do the right things, I treat others how I want to be treated, I don’t let greed get in the way of good judgment, good things will happen to me. So I guess I just want to make a living.
Let’s face it; all of us know that the sign industry isn’t the best suited occupation for getting rich quick. I chose this job because I enjoy it and by doing it every day I can come closer to reaching my ultimate goal. This may sound corny to some, but I would rather live my life this way then the alternative. Money IS NOT everything.
I only need to make enough money to live comfortably. When I wake up every morning there are two things I have to deal with almost every day. My career, and my life. My life always comes first. And it’s arguable, but the goal in life is to be happy, correct? I mean this post is about ethics isn’t it? Isn’t happiness the goal of living an ethical life? If I were to take your approach and go after only the money, I’m sure that my goal in life… to be happy… would become farther and farther from my reach. How could a person be happy if they were going out of their way to harm someone else’s happiness? How could a person be happy if they have to lose integrity just to reach a business goal? How can you be happy when you upset so many others and make so many enemies? Do you think money is going heal those wounds?
So when I wake up everyday I try to achieve the goal of happiness, not just to make money. I know that if I do the right things, I treat others how I want to be treated, I don’t let greed get in the way of good judgment, good things will happen to me. So I guess I just want to make a living.
Let’s face it; all of us know that the sign industry isn’t the best suited occupation for getting rich quick. I chose this job because I enjoy it and by doing it every day I can come closer to reaching my ultimate goal. This may sound corny to some, but I would rather live my life this way then the alternative. Money IS NOT everything.
Good post Joe
Gooder than good, Great post.
weaselboogie
New Member
This was my first though... you're screwing them first, you're screwing yourself second. Why you probably won't be able to put this guy out of business is that I'm hoping that he's better at design than you being in business for a couple of years. Not everything is about price and some people will pay for quality over and over again over a deal.
iSign
New Member
besides... now that hundreds of us here know he'll be selling below cost... we'll all be buying wholesale from them, sucking up everything he and "his" 3 or 4 people he owns, can make for as long as he sells below cost... so the neighborhood clients will never have a chance at any of his low prices & will still be buying across the street.
Make sure to give us a grand opening announcement!
curlyt
New Member
Some people would say, "It's just business."
If you can run this guy out of business, you are forcing him to stop maing a living there and....heck why do you have to ask if it's unethical?
Once the word gets out that you undercut him that bad just to run him out of business, his customers will go the extra distance to those 5,6 or 8 signs shops in the next largest town to get their signs and leave you cold.
Even if that word does not get out, your gonna have to hire a graphic designer to do your designs because if it takes you ten hours to do what you did, you could save money in hiring.
You must be that millionaire you mentioned with nothing better to do with their money. Hey I got an idea, slip me some cash and you can invest in my future.
Sorry, but you seem to be only doing it to make money, the guy your running out of business is doing it to make a living. If that doesn't influence your decision for a "takeover" then your not sign maker material.
If you can run this guy out of business, you are forcing him to stop maing a living there and....heck why do you have to ask if it's unethical?
Once the word gets out that you undercut him that bad just to run him out of business, his customers will go the extra distance to those 5,6 or 8 signs shops in the next largest town to get their signs and leave you cold.
Even if that word does not get out, your gonna have to hire a graphic designer to do your designs because if it takes you ten hours to do what you did, you could save money in hiring.
You must be that millionaire you mentioned with nothing better to do with their money. Hey I got an idea, slip me some cash and you can invest in my future.
Sorry, but you seem to be only doing it to make money, the guy your running out of business is doing it to make a living. If that doesn't influence your decision for a "takeover" then your not sign maker material.