Experience with liquid laminates?

[Techman]

Sorry Gino.
You are appearing to be closed minded. If you understand acrylic paint and how it acts on a surface then you know how clear acrylic acts when used as a clear coating.
It is nothing more than a plastic layer of acrylic plastic.

The UV factor is another needless worry. Some floor coatings have UV blockers. Just find one that works.
Do not read anything into what I posted. There are too many variables to answer "what ifs" There will always be a "what if".

Instead of basing comments on opinions why not research it out and comment from a better level of understanding?

As I said. There are always alternatives.



As for Minwax Polycrylic varnish.. That is actually a polyurethane product. A completely different product.

 

[TimToad]

I looked for a water based version of Frogjuice and couldn't find any reference to it anywhere.

 

[Techman]

Does that mean it does not exist?

No, it does exist.

http://www.mclogan.com/shop/frog-juice-waterbase-p-1136.html

 

[TimToad]

Thanks, I just read of its existence here today and its not like I spent the morning searching high and lo for it, so I'm grateful for addition to the list of options. Our regular suppliers don't carry it and McLogan didn't pop up in a Google for it.

Its cost and in spite of management suggestions to the contrary, my employee's penchant for refusing to ever re-use a foam roller sleeve and not waste product by continuing to pour it into a roller tray instead of directly onto the surface prohibits me from using a $50 per quart product like it.

After 40 years in the biz, I assumed most of us can tell about how much liquid it takes to coat a panel of a given size. It may sound like nitpicking, but once a paint or product gets up into the $150 -200 per gallon range, the amount left in the roller that could be saved for another job the next day with a 30 second distraction to grab the roll of Saranwrap I provide and the amount left in a roller tray adds up to unnecessary waste when I'm writing the checks.

 

[Gino]

Sorry to you, too, tech.

While I might appear close-minded, I'm not, not at all. It would be better to say I was a little skeptical of something I've never heard of before, let alone told works. I'm a firm believer in never underestimating the realm of possibilities, but this one while some of the properties are similar, I don't have any idea as of yet. Ya hafta admit yourself, for being introduced to some new avenue, I didn't say if it was a one-way street or not. I'm just gonna stick to what I know works. Researching something like this doesn't strike my fancy as being near the top of any lists, therefore being better informed, I'll leave to someone who can show me in writing what will work or not within our industry's standards.

Besides, I gave you and the rest of the site the name of the very best clear coat on the market and you didn't acknowledge it. Who has the horse blinders on ?? Anyone around this business long enough, has probably heard of this one.

 

[Techman]

Researching something like this doesn't strike my fancy as being near the top of any lists, therefore being better informed, I'll leave to someone who can show me in writing what will work or not within our industry's standards.

So you see. You have no idea of which you speak. And then you simply dismiss the chance to get informed. In the same breath you dismiss anything anyone else offers as if they had nothing worthy. That is your pattern to post numerous uninformed rebuttals when someone does not follow your "expert" opinion.

Yet you will offer an uninformed opinion as if it were fact and then hide behind your "industry standard as if it was some golden rule. Well that is fine. While you refuse to get informed and stand behind "your" industry standard others will continue to move forward get informed and try new things.

I offered some insight into liquid coatings. It brought some discussion and some are checking it out it for themselves. Great. I am sure someone much more astute than I will show that what you consider the very best liquid lam is the same base product that comes under different names including floor polish, acrylic adhesive, acrylic glazing and paint.

One more thing. Air brush artists are discovering and using good old generic grade future floor polish works wonders as a great reducer when airbrushing acrylic paint. I guess they do not mind breaking the golden industry standard rule.

Here is some testimomy from billie D.

So I Did a little test last while airbrushing some Acrylic paint. Instead of using Water, Alcohol or the Conditioner I tried reducing the paint with Acrylic floor polish. (Generic Future) My thinking here is this dries to a hard clear surface by itself. Hence using it as a clear coat.
My only hesitation was I was afraid it may react with the binders in the paint causing it to curdle.
So I set off to mix up my German Yellow... Mixed up my color then proceeded to reduce it it with the Clear... Good no problem yet. Let it set in the jar for 20 minutes to make sure, then poured some in my color cup and proceeded to Paint..
Oh MY GOD.. This concoction flowed out of the brush so nice I felt like I was shooting Lacquer. The paint flowed out on the model like a dream and very little tip build up.. I think I had to back flush twice in a hour of painting. The paint was drying to touch in about 4-5 minutes and did a second coat.I may have mixed it a tad to thin as I had to coat it twice to get full cover up over red primer.
Cleaned up the Air Brush and let it sit overnight to dry..
Checked it out last night.. This paint is hard as a rock.. Started to remove my liquid latex chip mask with a stiff brush.. Perfect no lifting except where I wanted it to lift.
So the Outcome of this test is.
You can Reduce/thin your Acrylic Paints with Future Floor Polish and the Future will work as a Hardener for you Acrylic paints.

 

[AF]

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the insanely overpriced clear liquid laminates are just repackaged floor polish. Put a bow-tie on it with some FUD on the label and charge as much as you can. Someone had to originally figure out that clear acrylic works for our needs, could have easily started with Future or Rubbermaid floor products.

That said, there are different "formulations" of liquid laminates, some more flexible than others, some with different finishes like matte and semi gloss. If there is a cheap and proven way to get a matte finish from the floor polish, I will be glad to compare to the "industry standard" products we use.

 

[GAC05]

Interesting subject,
I'm hoping the resident Print Alchemist artbot will chime in here.

wayne k
guam usa

 

[Gino]

I am not taking this to another level for the reasons I already stated. I'm not arguing with you in the slightest bit, but just saying, if like you say, I have nothing to pull from in this area, why should I go looking around for something I don't know anything about ?? I'm not dissing what you brought to the table. I'm just saying there are proven products already in place for anyone. If the price is too high, then use something else like you suggested or some other product, be it home made or store bought. The same reasoning is in rapid tac vs all the other weaselp!ss products..... to what oil you lay your brushes in at night.

As for a pattern, you have that wrong, but you, like anyone else is perfectly capable of having their own theory or opinion, but again, it does not mean it's correct. Unlike the recent conversations on people hiding their identity as so many do on here, I hide nothing. My house and home are open for anyone to come and talk, discuss, break bread or just have a good time. Also, as being discussed I'm where I'm at in life and business due to most of my and my wife's choices/decisions. Not because of what someone else told me to do or say.

I have no idea from where this position has come. I can only imagine, but I'm not just guessing like you are about me.

Sorry if I struck a nerve with you, so suffice it to say, we agree to disagree, as long as I have nothing on floor polish for exterior signs at this point.

 

[player]

I am not taking this to another level for the reasons I already stated. I'm not arguing with you in the slightest bit, but just saying, if like you say, I have nothing to pull from in this area, why should I go looking around for something I don't know anything about ?? I'm not dissing what you brought to the table. I'm just saying there are proven products already in place for anyone. If the price is too high, then use something else like you suggested or some other product, be it home made or store bought. The same reasoning is in rapid tac vs all the other weaselp!ss products..... to what oil you lay your brushes in at night.

As for a pattern, you have that wrong, but you, like anyone else is perfectly capable of having their own theory or opinion, but again, it does not mean it's correct. Unlike the recent conversations on people hiding their identity as so many do on here, I hide nothing. My house and home are open for anyone to come and talk, discuss, break bread or just have a good time. Also, as being discussed I'm where I'm at in life and business due to most of my and my wife's choices/decisions. Not because of what someone else told me to do or say.

I have no idea from where this position has come. I can only imagine, but I'm not just guessing like you are about me.

Sorry if I struck a nerve with you, so suffice it to say, we agree to disagree, as long as I have nothing on floor polish for exterior signs at this point.

Gino are you trying to say why would you *uck around with floor polish when there are time tested products designed for exactly what a sign professional needs them to do?

 

[signs20]

How about ClearShield?

Thanks for all of the comments. However, there is a product specifically intended for laminating vinyl prints - ClearShield.

They claim that it will extend the life of 3-year inks (Mimaki, Roland, etc.) to 5 years. Haven't seen any confirming results.

Anyone have any long-term experience with this stuff exposed to sunshine, weather, etc.?

Anyone using it for vehicle wraps? How did it do?

Thanks again,

 

[signs20]

How about ClearShield?

Thanks for all of the comments. However, there is a product specifically intended for laminating printed vinyl - ClearShield.

They claim that it will extend the life of 3-year inks (Mimaki, Roland, etc.) from 3 years to 5 years. Haven't seen any confirming evidence.

Anyone have any longer-term experience with this stuff?

Anyone using it for vehicle wraps?

Thanks again.

 

[AF]

Signs20

Clearshield water based liquid laminate is apparently a clear acrylic formula. It is thick and needs to be diluted, which improves the economy of it. I have noticed that it leave a fairly heavy "plastic" coating compared to some of the fine art liquid laminates out there. For abrasion resistance, clearshield is the best. For general protection, it may not matter which coating is used.

One of the posters above was sharing his experience with using "Industrial Floor Polish" as a cost effective alternate to the industry specific coatings. His argument is that the floor product is essentially identical to the sign / graphic products. I would agree with him to a point, because I have used many different brands of sign/graphic coatings and they all handle differently. It may be that the graphic / art coatings are less likely to have impurities but then again they could just be repackaged bulk floor coatings. Floor coatings would naturally be resistant to damage so the idea of using them to protect prints is interesting. Floor coatings are much cheaper on a cost-per-gallon basis as well.

I have noticed that as for the sign/graphic/art coatings that there is a difference in the adhesion to the print, only noticeable in abuse situations. Clear shield having the best adhesion.

 

[TimToad]

Another factor not yet discussed is yellowing. I imagine no floor care product manufacturer expects their product to not be thoroughly cleaned and/or stripped off somewhat more frequently than every 3-5 years like we expect a sign to be in place.

Anyone who has ever had laminate, tile or wood laminate floors knows that most of those household duty floor care products don't stay crystal clear for very long.

As to why such a harmless and product related topic needed to get the kind of antagonism and subtle hostility I see towards Gino injected into it is completely beyond my comprehension. Even the snarky comment about my not finding the waterbased FrogJuice online immediately was unnecessary.

 

[Arthur Goetz]

Dear Forumites

I fly an ultralight aircraft, which is covered with Dacron sail cloth. The first set of wing covers lasted for five years, of which it spent 180 hours in the sun and the rest in the shade. Economically speaking this is completely unacceptable and I need to implement protection measures. I did use Aerospace protectant 303 before, but cannot say that it helped much.

It looks like my requirements are the same as for protecting signwriting graphics that are exposed to the weather: The laminate must protect primarily against UV. While abrasion resistance if of little consequence, the laminate must look good, not deteriorate in either color (yellowing), integrity, adhesion and flexibility.

Will liquid laminate (ClearShield or ClearJet) work for me? I understand if you can't say much about applying it to an aircraft, specifically, but if it works well on flexible signwriting canvas exposed to the weather, it will work on my plane.

I haven't found much in the way of exposure tests, except Don’t Fade Away – Recent Testing of Protective Coatings | Just Paint, which seems to indicate that neither ClearShield nor Clearjet perform exceptionally well, and only Clearjet is even mentioned in the results.

Best regards
Arthur