Exterior sign panel choices

[Billct2]

So I just noticed a sign we installed a few years ago is falling apart. It's 1/2" Lusterboard (aluminum bonded to plywood core)
and we've had been using it for many years with no problems, but the lately we're having a lot of failures. These are usually double sided custom shape signs installed between posts. There's been two issues, the edges failing and the faces bubbling.
We seal the edges with epoxy and often paint with acrylic polyurethane. I've been complaining about the problems to my suppliers but other than submitting a claim they really have no answers. So after I I saw this sign today, the whole face blistered up I decide to go straight to the manuafctures website and complain. Well, after looking up the product I found out something that no one I've ever talked to about ever told me...the expected life of these panels is under 6 months!? An aluminum clad plywood panel is only expected to last 6 months? WTH, the longest life any of their products is 2+ years! What do they think these sign panels are being used for, just site signs? So now that my rant is done what do most of you use for these types of exterior signs? Do I have to go back to MDO with all the prep time? And I've been hearing a lot of bad stuff about MDO quality too. For smaller signs we've been bonding two pieces of dibond together, but I don't want to have to use two full 4x8s in order to make one sign. There really is a need for a factory finish .5"-.75" double face 4x8 that can be cut to shape and will last 5-8 years.

 

[GB2]

What about PVC

 

[Billct2]

I guess that's a possibility, but I never liked using large PVC sheets between two posts. I've seen it break, even 1/2", especially in winter. And then in the summer you have to allow for the expansion. I guess 3/4 or 1" might work, but then the edge is a hassle to paint, and at that thickness it starts getting pretty expensive. A 1/2" pvc core with aluminum faces bonded to it would be nice and I'd pay more for something like that.

 

[visual800]

1/2 coro for all temp signs, its lightweight and cheap and pretty damn durable. For nicer temps we use maxxmetal

 

[Billct2]

I'm talking about permanent custom shape signs

 

[skyhigh]

Try the 6 & 8 mil dibond type products. For larger panels you could double it up for a pretty hefty sign face.

 

[Billct2]

We've been doing that for smaller signs, but it gets a bit pricey for 4x8s but that may be the best solution. Why don't they make one that thick

 

[Z SIGNS]

Had the same problem with luster board.The plywood in between the panels rots out quickly.Had the same problem with mdo in between two pieces of hdu.I think it's because the wood can't breathe.You could use acm attached to an aluminum frame for something nice and permanent or use the ready painted mdo and seal up the edges.

 

[Billct2]

I do use acm or aluminum on a tube frame for square edge signs, it's the cut to shape panels that are the problem

 

[GB2]

There's always Alumalite or Alumacore. As far as the PVC goes, I wouldn't use 1/2" unsupported between posts but the 3/4" or 1" works very well. The edges are no more of a hassle than any other product, they just require a little sanding and primer. The only thing is that there is more of a chance that PVC will warp a little more than any other product.

 

[visual800]

Sorry bout that. For permanent signs we use all aluminum. Aluminum posts with aluminum skins, 040or 063. Pvc we like to use 3/4" thick or above and use the good heavy stuff, none of this junk grimco is trying to sell. The only time we use anything with wood is for temp sign. Wood sucks.

i will tell you another post option, pvc pipe. Thick walled primed and painted. It looks good and it lasts

 

[petrosgraphics]

i *have used 3/4" pvc for many d/f signs, custom shapes etc. not really
a problem. depending on the size of the panel will use either 2 or 3 post
clips per side for the install. really never a problem. there have been times*
when i have placed H/P vinyl on the face for a background color. you can
prime the edge, just to prevent discoloration, finish with matching color.
*

 

[Z SIGNS]

You can do the shapes with tubing and pack the shaped parts with foam.

 

[TimToad]

Aluminum pan faces

Couldn't you just use a pan formed aluminum face? If you're using an internal framing made of square tube, you don't have to use very thick material and it adds both a durability and depth that a "custom" job warrants.

If your shop doesn't have a break or the ability to notch and fold the edges, your local sheet metal, hvac or ducting company should have it and can probably knock stuff out pretty quickly for not much dough. I've worked 30+ years in three different towns and NEVER had a problem working with those type of businesses. Send them enough panels to form for you and they start sending you their trucks to letter, etc.

 

[Billct2]

Tim, we've done that for hiher end signs, but for a dbl side custom shape economy job a apanel that can be cut to shape and installed between two posts that will last 5-8 years is what I want. I guess thick pvc or bonded dibond are my two best options. What's irriatting is that these manufacturers change products to save money and we don't notice till they fail. I have old alimnum faced plywood panels out there that are 10 years old and look better than ones that are 2 years old.

 

[rjssigns]

We've used foam pvc with great results. I usually dado posts/frames so it can slide in and not be bothered by temperature as much. I would imagine you could glue up a couple 6mm sheets to get the thickness.

 

[k.a.s.]

Lusterboard sucks, MDO now sucks as well. When we first started making signs I could make a painted MDO panel last 5+ years easy, now the thing is peeling within 2 years.I don't trust PVC, but I know that people do use it with success.

I now make almost everything out of 6mm Max Metal. It's not as ridged as MDO but at least it won't rot. If it is over 6' long I like to make two single sided panels, and mount stringers between the posts then fasten the panels on each side. I have mounted a 4x8 between 2 posts if I have a straight bottom and can run a 2x4 along bottom and fasten to the sides and bottom.

Also try Extira, it's heavy and takes a little time finish well, but won't rot.


Kevin

 

[petepaz]

we have used the aluminum faced plywood many times also, luckily no complaints but that's not to say that it didn't happen just nothing was done about it or the place we used it just got a new sign and didn't get it from us. lately we have been using more and more of the aluminum face with the plastic center instead of the wood. found it to be less expensive and hoping it would last longer than the wood center.

 

[TimToad]

Sorry, I missed the "custom" shape part.

I've been using Simona brand PVC for thicker stuff of late. The face texture is nice and smooth, it takes paint really well and maybe its just me, but it seems like the edges clean up better than Sintra or other brands.

 

[Lauren]

For the less expensive custom shaped signs that go between posts we use alumacorr/alumalite. What is PVC? Is it the same as sintra/komatex/trovacil?