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Falcon Outdoor Jr 38"...HELP!

Discussion in 'Mutoh' started by ilmt, Sep 9, 2008.

  1. ilmt

    ilmt Member

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    Sep 5, 2008
    this machine worked perfect until it reach its' 1 year birthday with also happened to be the end of the warranty for the printer.

    before anyone wastes a post telling me that this problem occurred due to not cleaning the unit, i just want to point out that i followed the proper procedures for cleaning the unit and replacing the ink dry pads.

    so one day my printer stopped printing color, however, black printed w/o any problems.

    since the warranty was expired and the nearest dealer wants $775.00 just to show up to my door, i figured i would try some basic cleaning on my own, which tech support told me is common, but who knows.

    i took apart my printer and labeled where all the screws go. i took apart the color ink lines only, and used a syringe and cleaned out the ink lines. some small chunks of ink came out of every color line, so i was very happy when i saw that, i figured my problem was solved at this point. so i dried out the air lines and put everything back together very carefully making sure not to damage anything. i had some help with this and i am 100% positive nothing else was damaged, we took our time and labeled everything we unplugged.

    so i put everything back together and i tried to print, and guess what, same issues as before, black printed fine and color still isn't printing. mt cartridges are full of ink , but just to rule out ink being a problem, i popped in a brand new cartridge. same issues. so i know it's not lack of ink.

    now, i dont know how many of you have taken the printer apart, but the ink lines go from steel lines, maybe aluminum?, to plastic, flexible lines. i CANT see any ink flowing through any of the ink lines. is there a vacum that sucks ink to the head? has anyone else had this problem?

    during all of this cleaning process, i decided to take apart the black ink line and clean it out, since i had every other ink line taken apart. well, go figure, the black wont print now, so i have actually taken my printer out on my own this time. i knew i should have left the black line alone, oh well, the color wasnt working, which i need just as much as the black at times.

    the good news is, we dont rely on this machine to make money, it is for in house decals, so i dont need to get it working...immediatley. but we will be prinitng some stuff soon, so i would like to try to get some information from anyone on here that might know a little more about this machine than me.

    please post any questions/comments.

    thanks
     
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  2. The Big Squeegee

    The Big Squeegee Major Contributor

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    Lawton, OK, USA
    First of all, it is obvious that you don't know how the machine works. what you have done so far is drain all the ink back to the carts. I'll try to explain the process.

    The ink is sucked through the cleaning station. The cleaning station is where the heads rest upon when it is in the home position. The cleaning station is the sourse of 99% of all problems with printing. Many a head has been changed because someone thought the problem was in the head. It sure was but it was not in the print head...OK, back to work here. If the machine sets idle for long periods of time, the heads will get a little dry but the cleaning station dries out even more (more surface area exposed to the air). The lines going to the waste ink will dry up as well.

    The first thing you should check with the syringe is the cleaning station without the head on top of it. So move the head out of the way, attach the syringe to the waste ink hose and see if you can pull a vacuum on it. If you can pull a vacuum on it there are two possibilities. The pump is closed or the station is so plugged up with dry ink it won't let anything through. If it is the later, you need to replace the capping station.

    If while you are checking the capping station with the syringe you can push ink back up through the capping station. This is a test to see if the pump is leaking. If you get leaks from the pump then you need to replace it. The pump is that little cube next to the capping station. Check both lines the go into the waste bottle this way.

    Ok, so if you don't find any problems there, The next thing to do, since you have allowed the ink to empty out of the feed lines, is to check the Dampers. Better yet replace the dampers. You said that you found dry ink in the line. The dampers do 3 things. They filter out dry ink so it don't go into the head and it keeps the pressure of the ink in the lines constant. They also keep a supply of ink near the head. It is standard procedure to change the dampers at least once a year if not twice.

    To get the ink back to the heads, you will need to do a first fill operation. Check your owners manual for that information. If the heads do not come up to printing, try cleaning and test. If this don't get you up and running, my phone number in the link in my signature.
     
  3. Jackpine

    Jackpine Major Contributor

    Dale is correct.....he has had his apart a time or two. He has given me a bit of good advice many times. When a head does not print well the first thing I would do is pull the head to the left off the cap station and with a syringe "top off" the caps with cleaning solvent then replace the head on the cap station and let it soak for 10 to 15 minutes. Then I would do a normal head cleaning then do a nozzle check. If that does not work but you have some ink printing do a powerful cleaning from the control panel. Watch the waste lines to see if ink and solvent is moving. By letting the lines "dry" IMO not a good thing. I would check the dampers for ink for ink. If none than draw the ink from the cap as Dale said. I am a firm believer to do a head wash (cleaning cartridges)at least once a year and especially when the printer is going to be idle for more than 3 days. Then do an ink fill when you are ready to get back on line.
     
  4. The Big Squeegee

    The Big Squeegee Major Contributor

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    Oct 10, 2005
    Lawton, OK, USA
    Thanks for the back up on this one Gerry. It's been a long time since I ran one of these on a day to day basis as I know you do. I cringed when he said he dried the lines out.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2008
  5. ilmt

    ilmt Member

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    Sep 5, 2008
    guys,

    thank for the information. when i get to the office tomorrow, i will print out this thread and try to check everything you guys said.

    i do know 1 thing for sure, i put the syrenge on the color waste line and there was suction.

    on the black waste line, there was no suction. i didnt try the thicker, cleaner tube, that looks clean like nothing has ever been discharged from there.

    so again, i did get suction on the color discharge line, according to the post above, that could be a bad pump or a clogged trap?

    nothing has been replaced since i got this unit. the i am almost certain the reason the color doesnt print is because i dont sue color as often. which is a good sign, i think that means my electric boards are not fried.

    the dampers are not clogged, when i took of the ink lines by the dampers i could see wet ink. i guess that doesnt mean they are not clogged, but they dont seem dried out.

    i will update tomorrow when i try to takle this. thanks for the replies, i will keep everyone updated.
     
  6. ilmt

    ilmt Member

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    ok, here is an update guys...

    signsbydale knows where i am at with my paper undefined error...

    as far as the fill here it goes...

    i used my syringe on the dump lines today, black and color, no suction on either lines, i assume this is a good sign from the post above.

    i went to the utility menu and got to the fill option, and selected to fill black and color.

    nothing seemed to happen, i didnt see any ink flow throug my clear lines.

    do you guys think my dampers might be clogged?

    i guess it is time to start replacing parts, however, i dont know if i should be replacing any parts right now if i cant get the paper confirmed.

    thanks.
     
  7. Jackpine

    Jackpine Major Contributor

    Dale, "I cringed when he said he dried the lines out." Why? is was my thought.
    Take the cover off the print head and see if you have ink in the dampers. There should be clean color in each damper. Dampers are consumable items. www.cmykparts.com will have them and other parts. Are the cap tops raised? This would mean the cap station is gone. I would believe a head wash would be in order to clean everything out. If that works than your parts may be ok.
    quote=ilmt;414913]ok, here is an update guys...

    signsbydale knows where i am at with my paper undefined error...

    as far as the fill here it goes...

    i used my syringe on the dump lines today, black and color, no suction on either lines, i assume this is a good sign from the post above.

    i went to the utility menu and got to the fill option, and selected to fill black and color.

    nothing seemed to happen, i didnt see any ink flow throug my clear lines.

    do you guys think my dampers might be clogged?

    i guess it is time to start replacing parts, however, i dont know if i should be replacing any parts right now if i cant get the paper confirmed.

    thanks.[/quote]
     
  8. ilmt

    ilmt Member

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    Sep 5, 2008
    dampers have wet and clean ink in them.

    i dont know what raised cap tops look like, so i couldnt tell you if that is one of the problems that i have. also, i will try to do a wash today, since i have never done a wash.

    for a wash, do i just use the cleaning solvent cartridges and do every color one at a time?

    i am going to see if the manual has directions about washing.

    thanks.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2008
  9. Jackpine

    Jackpine Major Contributor

    The sponges in the cap tops would be raised.
    Plug in the cleaning solvent cartridges and it will automatically stat with the K and then do the color head.
    You have an email.

    dampers have wet and clean ink in them.

    i dont know what raised cap tops look like, so i couldnt tell you if that is one of the problems that i have. also, i will try to do a wash today, since i have never done a wash.

    for a wash, do i just use the cleaning solvent cartridges and do every color one at a time?

    i am going to see if the manual has directions about washing.

    thanks.[/quote]
     
  10. ilmt

    ilmt Member

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    Sep 5, 2008
    all i know is that the sponges in my capping station, i am assuming that is where the head defaults to when the machine isnt in use, they are dark in color and they are under the plastic tabs. if they are raised, would they be above the plastic tabs?

    i guess what i am saying is that i dont know what it looks like when it isnt raised.

    thanks, i wish i brought my camera to work today, i could take a good picture and post it.
     
  11. ilmt

    ilmt Member

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    Sep 5, 2008
    ok, good news.

    i stripped the machine down to the black and color heads and i cleaned out the dampers and the heads. at first, i was only getting a little blue to come out...so i put some solvent solution where the nipple plugs into the bottom of the damper and now i have yellow and pink and blue coming out, not contaminated. they are coming out of their respective locations. so that is a good sign. i also let the head soak in some solvent for about 10 minutes. i haven't put everything back together yet.

    however, i dont think it is letting me run a wash cycle becuase it cant confirm the paper kind.

    does the black print head have smoe type of sensor that confirms the paper?

    as i stated above, the paper cycles through the rollers fine. it stops right after it passes the sensor on the bottom part of the unit. however, it gives me the undefined paper when the black and color heads start scanning the vinyl.

    will update later on.
     
  12. randya

    randya Very Active Member

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    I believe that there are 2 paper detects on that machine.

    One on the carriage for width detect and one in the back for paper end.
     
  13. ilmt

    ilmt Member

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    Sep 5, 2008
    paper end works no problem...i see it feed the paper forward, then it rolls it back and stops at the right spot. then the head comes out from the capping station, scans for about 1 second and goes back home. when it IS successful, it proceeds to the other end of the paper.

    i have never had this much trouble with confirming the paper.

    this happened a few times before my ink problem, thats how i know they are not related, but when it was happening before, a few reboots of the machine and it finally confirmed the paper.

    thanks for all your help guys. i will let you know what happens when i put this stuff together, i am going to go try now.
     
  14. ilmt

    ilmt Member

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    Sep 5, 2008
    ok, good news and bad news...

    good news

    i cleaned the print heads and i put everything back together successfully. i turned the printer on, undefined paper error, but i was able to run a fill and for the first time in a long time i saw ink come out of the color waste tube. black always came out.

    so that makes me a little happy, it tells me that the heads are clean and that the pump seems to be doing its work. when i ran the fill color 2 days ago, w/o cleaning the heads, no ink came out of the color waste line. so i did something, this is a good sign.

    bad news

    still cant get it to confirm paper. i dont know what else to try...

    should i take some pictures of the paper and how i am aligning it?

    i tried all the suggestions on here...cleaning out the sensor, making sure it is aligned properly, etc...

    i wish i could figure out this paper undefined message so i could send a print job to it...

    do you guys think a master reset on the printer would do anything (i dont remember how to master reset)?
     
  15. randya

    randya Very Active Member

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    Arizona
    Get a tech to walk you through checking the sensor in maintenance mode.

    You can look at the readings, difference between media reading and platen reading to see if the sensor is working properly.

    There should be pot on the mainboard to adjust the sensitivity.

    But make sure the sensor is clean and positioned correctly first.
     
  16. ilmt

    ilmt Member

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    Sep 5, 2008
    i don't know if i can justify $125/30 minutes on the phone with a tech.
     
  17. ilmt

    ilmt Member

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    Sep 5, 2008
    i was searching and another person posted this

    can i disable the confirm paper on my printer?
     
  18. ilmt

    ilmt Member

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    Sep 5, 2008
    where is the second sensor?

    i know the sensor that eventually ends up under the media, it looks like an eye. i am certain that this sensor is working properly. that sensor finds the end of the paper.

    what about the sensor that looks at the width...that is the one that i suspect is not working.
     
  19. ilmt

    ilmt Member

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    Sep 5, 2008
    UPDATE

    i found 3 sensors on my machine.

    2 of the sensors are on the machine located where the paper feeds into the machine. 1 before it goes under the pressure rollers and another right after it comes out of the pressure rollers.

    the 3rd sensor is on next to the black print head. i took this sensor off, it looked clean. i tried to run the machine without that sensor and i get the same error, undefined.

    so, if i am getting the same error WITH the sensor unplugged, that tells me that the system is not recognizing that sensor. so i must have fried that sensor somehow.

    unless someone can think of anything else?

    thanks.
     
  20. ilmt

    ilmt Member

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    Sep 5, 2008
    ok guys, hopefully this helps.

    i took a video with my camera and uploaded it to you tube so you can see what it does from the flip of the on switch.

    a few things to note, camera doesn't have the best quality and for some reason it plays the video a little bit quicker...not sure why that is, so while it might look like the paper is feeding quick and the head is moving fast, it really isn't going THAT quick.

    thanks and i hope this helps someone on here help me figure out what is happening.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFHZXpDAvZw
     
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