Flexi and HPL25500 ??? Any Better Now?

[ProWraps]

needs to be looked at very close or with the help of a magnifying loupe.

you look at digi prints with a mag loop? even up close we have no graininess.

then again i have no particular reason to use a mag loop.

could be you are looking for fine art quality. these printers suck *** on canvas. again, all digi printer suck and have their quarks. but i wouldnt commisison this printer for that occupation. i would opt for an 8 color aqueous epson or something of the like. any other print need i couldnt see the reason for such magnified inspection.

as far as on 180c, ij 35, arlon 8000, there is NO graininess up close or far away. again, i dont have a need for a mag loop. we print 10 pass, ij180c profile and get flawless results.

as far as this:
"Also not everyone that buys a printer is a qualified printer operator with a knowledge of custom profiling their printers or software."

well, i mean again, results may vary. but blaming any hardware for possible inexperienced operator error is just reckless.

 

[GAC05]

Pro whats the the square foot speed with that 10 pass?
Can you run banners at high speed (4pass 720x720) like on the 1304s?

wayne k
guam usa

 

[ProWraps]

we ran banners on our 1304's at 540x720 with faster than normal (not blazing but faster than 720x720) with great results.


the hps not so much. i have to check the canned profile we used and moded, but tis no where near as fast as the mutohs.

not majorly slower but not as fast. standard 10 pass on 180c we average right around 87 sq/ft/hr.

not glorious but not TOO much slower than the mutohs if any. just a much smarter animal that has its own set of testiness.

but no outgassing is AMAZING when you turn the volume we do on wraps and digital prints. i have the luxury of taking orders through the day and producing them in FULL (print, lam and trim sans waiting) within the hour or day.

each machine fills its own niche and if tasked properly will serve their masters well.

but eh-hem, still no graininess.

 

[GAC05]

Thanks,
I can see that no waiting advantage.
My volume will never be that high but I do get some decent sized orders for a single printer with a short turn around.
Still stuck with the Mutoh but weighting options on the next one.

wayne k
guam usa

 

[tomence]

Don't get me wrong, HP is a good printer, no smell of solvents, no waiting to outgass before lam, auto media feed calibration, user replaceable printheads i can go on on for its positive side, just wanted to point out that it has a big learning curve than most solvent or eco solvent printers to a newbie, and its not the rip you should be worried but the printer it self. You should know how to operate this printer and do all the heat adjustments to different medias and such. I myself wanted to buy this printer but i feel more comfortable using a solvent printer since i know them and know how they work and what they can produce. Maybe i went too far about using magnifying glass, but i am too picky i guess when it comes to getting quality prints like fine art, but for anything else it is a good printer overall.

 

[Suz]

Haha Hubby stays. He's the best thing I have going.

When I bought the printer, I wanted a local HP Tech that was just around the corner from me. Well, they are no longer there and haven't been for a while. Very nice people, but unfortunately times are tough and they could not survive.

My machine was not a "bundle" or "package" deal that included Software. This is because I picked my own Technicians first, took their suggestions for who to buy the machine from, then figured I'd work out the software later by doing trials of softwares the Technicians had suggested. So far, I've gotten by with Trial software and the Onyx people have been really great about extending the trial for me as they knew I've had problems with machine.

I had no hands-on training because my Technician was only here long enough to take the machine out of the box, plug it in, and get it inked up and running. He loaded the wrong driver for my machine (he was in a hurry) and didn't figure out why he was getting error messages when he was trying to print. I told him I thought he had the wrong driver, but he didn't listen. Again, he was in a hurry.

So, I called T3 (Tim on the forum here) and Tim helped me load the driver myself for the 60" machine. Then the first error messages dissapeared. That was my formal training. Tim, you are the best!

Then I began to print some sample materials and experiment with profiles. I had a wobbly spindle which caused some problems in feeding materials, HP replaced that for free. I've had banding problems and all sorts of weird stuff, after all this time it turns out all my heads are bad. Who knew? HP is sending me a whole new set of heads.

I've had lots of things to work through with this printer and I'm still going through it. I'm still not sorry I bought the machine though. I'm just operating seat of the pants! I'm learning a lot and I will get through all of this and come out successful.

In hindsight, I really should have just purchased it from Grimco, they were offering 2 full days of training and that sure would have been nice. I didn't really know Grimco then. I'm using them now for supplies and they've been great. If I can swing it I will by Onyx from Grimco and not look back!

If not, I'll go Flexi and then switch to Onyx when I can afford it.
Thank you all for your input! I'm so glad this forum exists! Without it, all of this would have been so much more difficult. I truly appreciate the support.

Looks like the RIP is not the problem.

Upgrade the hubby!

 

[Suz]

Hey Gary! Thanks so much for your offer to help with Flexi. I may very well decide to go with Flex for price right now. When I was on phone yesterday with HP Tech (bad print heads) I asked him what his take was on Flexi and if they've done any updates or patches to fix problems with ink drying, etc... He told me that he'd heard Flexi did release some updates about a week or so ago, but you had to have to install firmware updates for the L25500 first for them to be effective. So, I updated the firmware.

Anyhow, yes, I'd really like to speak with you Gary.
Thanks so much!

Suz, if you weren't sure about what RIP to go with when you bought the machine, you should've taken the Flexi and it should have come with the printer for free. Now you'll have to buy it if you want it. I use the Flexi RIP and it functions just fine for me and I'm sure it would work fine for you. Any RIP will have a learning curve and take some getting used to but for your purposes the Flexi should be perfect for you and the lowest cost option. The other RIPs that you mention are good if you have multiple machines, are creating your own profiles or intend to get into bigger printing in the future. I'm not sure how you've even been able to do anything with the printer so far if you didn't have a proper RIP. So are you saying that you do have a copy of Caldera but just can't figure out how to use it? If I'm not mistaken, the Caldera is only a Linux based program so you have to have Linux as your operating system. I've heard a lot of people say they like the Caldera but you need a dedicated RIP computer and really have to have a need for such a thing if you ask me. I'd be happy to help you with some tips on working with the Flexi if you should decide to do that.

 

[dypinc]

Before I would throw any money at Flexi I would demand a demo that had the full color setup capacity. The most important thing with dealing with the L25500 is you have got to be able to really control the light ink lay down (the Fiery XF is weak in this area) and total ink. It is amazing how miner differences in number of passes and total ink can make in the printed result.

How you control these influence the look of graininess. Too much ink going down or too much light ink in the wrong place and coalescing can look like graininess or make the marks from the pinch wheels show up on certain medias. Not enough light inks in the correct place can show graininess.

Using canned profiles is a recipe for frustrating results.

 

[Suz]

Colo,
Caldera needs either a Mac or Linux:
http://www.caldera.com/support/table-of-compatibilites/
We got a new PC, got Caldera Trial, ready to go, then hubby said no!
Likes his PC's, and I want to please!

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Colo,
Caldera needs either a Mac or Linux:
http://www.caldera.com/support/table-of-compatibilites/
We got a new PC, got Caldera Trial, ready to go, then hubby said no!
Likes his PC's, and I want to please!

Which distribution of Linux did y'all use? I use Ubuntu, but then again it just handles Internet, email, LibreOffice and other related tasks, however, it is very easy to migrate between a Windows OS and a Linux based OS.

 

[ThinkRight]

Colo,
Caldera needs either a Mac or Linux:
http://www.caldera.com/support/table-of-compatibilites/
We got a new PC, got Caldera Trial, ready to go, then hubby said no!
Likes his PC's, and I want to please!

Maybe your hubby can partition the HD and give you dual boot capabilities.
We have it on our work computers , we still have some equipment that needs win95
Dual boot would seperate OS
/ ? just a thought

 

[Suz]

Hello Wild W,
To answer your question: Debian. We felt Customer Service was lacking. Just our experience. I'm sure others will respond as well.

 

[Suz]

Thinkrite,
Yes, I tried to get him to do the partition thing, but he doesn't want to do that to our brand new computer. Says it's a hassle. Good call though, if he was willing to do that.

Oh, just discovered that RIP Center by Onyx is a heckofalot cheaper than PosterShop. Come to think of it, that is what I think I was looking at in the first place, then they sent PosterShop for trial. Maybe that is the only trial version they send. Anyhow, price is double on Postershop. Hmmm, maybe we can do Onyx but go with RIPCenter... I'll give a call to make sure I'm thinki'n straight.

Maybe your hubby can partition the HD and give you dual boot capabilities.
We have it on our work computers , we still have some equipment that needs win95
Dual boot would seperate OS
/ ? just a thought

 

[Suz]

dypinc,

I agree, being able to control the number of passes is a huge advantage. Building your own profiles is as huge advantage. I have enjoyed being able to do these things with the Onyx program. Unknowingly until yesterday, I've been operating with faulty print heads (yet making beautiful prints) probably due to the fact that I have been able to control these variables. My ink pass settings have been higher than what I've seen most of the other Onyx users setting their prints at, but it has been working for me. I'm pretty certain that once my new print head replacements arrive today or tomorrow, I can probably then dial in what my real settings should be. We'll see. I know that I've gone through plenty of trial prints and materials to get my settings/profiles. However, the results have been repeatable, so that is what we want.

 

[jayhawksigns]

We use Flexi 10.5 here and I haven't had any issues running our L25500 with it. I did try Onyx 10 for a little bit, didn't delve into it a lot though. We had Onyx 7 and with our JV3 and I did use it over Flexi with that printer.

For me the unified workflow was one of the big reasons I went ahead and stuck with Flexi for our HP, that and we already had it and that saved me a chunk of change.

As a note, you can control the number of passes with Flexi too.

 

[Suz]

Matt,
Good to know, about controlling passes. That question was rolling around in my brain too, so thank you for addressing it! Can you build complete profiles? Control heater settings with Flexi? Thanks! Thanks!

 

[jayhawksigns]

Haven't messed with profiles much, been able to get the colors that I need with the canned profiles from Flexi or downloaded from vendors. Flexi does have a Color Profiler built into the Production Manager, and it'll do full profiles.

There is a whole slew of settings you can tweak from passes to temps to the minimum drying power. It looks like about every setting that I know of is available to adjust.

 

[Suz]

Matt, I'lm glad there are plenty of settings you can tweak.

I called Onyx this morning and found out that RIPCenter is not compatible with the L25500. So, I think that Flexi-Print for the HP25500 is going to be my choice for now.

Grimco quoted me $1200.00 on it. Not too bad.

 

[tomence]

I just checked my quote and for Caldera V9 (2 Large Format Printer Drivers and 1 Cut Driver) i was quoted $1195 from Advantage Sign Supply.

 

[jayhawksigns]

Suz - I don't know a lot about the FlexiPrint level of the software. You might want to verify what all it can do versus the Pro version we have here. I would imagine the printer control option are the same, thats just driver stuff. I am more concerned as to whether or not the ICC profile generation is included.